Guild Wars 2: The One Thread

[Meledelion]

That's because the game is designed to need healers and tanks. It's not hard to adapt that fight to make it not require a tank nor healers...

Basically it's relatively easy to port the "mechanics" of that fight over to GW2. "tone down direct damage" is probably the easiest... Make the boss deal X% more dmg if he isn't kited to the proper area (think about the boss turning red, green orange, blue, and the floor having different zones with corresponding colours where you need to "kite/dance" the boss over inorder to remove a boon on the boss or something...

The "mechanic" is only the move from this zone to the other zone consecutively and then back... That mechanic is easy to implement in various ways.

[draykorinee]

That's because the game is designed to need healers and tanks. It's not hard to adapt that fight to make it not require a tank nor healers...

Basically it's relatively easy to port the "mechanics" of that fight over to GW2. "tone down direct damage" is probably the easiest... Make the boss deal X% more dmg if he isn't kited to the proper area (think about the boss turning red, green orange, blue, and the floor having different zones with corresponding colours where you need to "kite/dance" the boss over inorder to remove a boon on the boss or something...

The "mechanic" is only the move from this zone to the other zone consecutively and then back... That mechanic is easy to implement in various ways.

Then you basically just water down the mechanic to a point when its not the same as Heigan. How do you kite if you don't have aggro of if a foolish noob has aggro and messes it all up?

[Meledelion]

A lot of people want raid-MECHANICS, this doesn't mean they want actual raids though.

I'd love mechanics like algalon, firefighter,... but actually needing 10-25 people is a noty for me. I also don't want "gated" content and loot progression which seem to be bound to the package of "raids" when most people mention them.

---------- Post added 2013-06-05 at 01:45 PM ----------

How do you kite if you don't have aggro of if a foolish noob has aggro and messes it all up?

Can you spot the mistake?

[draykorinee]

A lot of people want raid-MECHANICS, this doesn't mean they want actual raids though.

I'd love mechanics like algalon, firefighter,... but actually needing 10-25 people is a noty for me. I also don't want "gated" content and loot progression which seem to be bound to the package of "raids" when most people mention them.

---------- Post added 2013-06-05 at 01:45 PM ----------



Can you spot the mistake?

Okay what if a noob is 'targeted' and just stands in green zone for the entirety and leads to dead people, with no sure fire way to get that boss off of people its very hard to implement kite mechanics in a pug situation. Not impossible for sure. Right now it seems bosses are more interested in who I;m reviving that whether i'm smashing there face in. The threat table is just too erratic right now.

[Meledelion]

What do you do if your tank fails at kiting and just stands there on the fight in wow?

[draykorinee]

Spam heal the shit out of him. Wipe. Then restart safe in the knowledge I can tell him what to do next time as he'll always have aggro :P

[Meledelion]

Voila, you've answered your own question:

"Okay what if a noob is 'targeted' and just stands in green zone for the entirety and leads to dead people"
"tell him what to do next time"

[Fencers]

The only time I have seen an event fail in Guild Wars 2 is for lack of people.

Every single meta event I have done in the game has been defeated soundly.

[Fencers]

2 or 3 people doing the Temple event in the Malchor's Leap is a failure from actual lack of people. 1 guy doing the fire tornado thing in the Asura starter zone is a failure due to lack of people.

Situations like that are the only times I see events fail in GW2.

[Meledelion]

Reworked grenth used to fail a lot because ppl didn't know how the lights worked. (it still fails a lot now tbh)

[Valeron]

I have seen Grenth fail many times no matter the amount of people.

[zito]

I have seen Grenth fail many times no matter the amount of people.

That's mainly because the NPC just sits there while aoe randomly hits him.

[Rhywolver]

Yep, Grenth fails really really often. Before the rework, it used to be the phase one where Jones got too much damage from shadows, phase two was basically free-loot. Now it's possible to fail at both.

[Maarius]

nah, you can't add a kiting-mechanic to a battle where 100 players participate - not working. As I already mentioned it was just an example, it was never my intention to copy the Heigan battle. I haven't raided a lot in WoW but this one stood out as the most fun battles I did.

I also loved the battle where you had to heal a sleeping dragon while it was attacked. This would also be a nice mechanic which could be implemented. Spawn waves all around the "dragon" and you have to decide what to do and where to go, in order to help. If you see the enemies are ranged (the enemies should be big enough so that it is very visible and the shot-frequency shouldn't be too high), guardians, rangers and mesmers (or any other profession who is able to reflect) moves to this side. On the other side of the dragon at the same time some big slow hitting ogers arrive. All professions who can blind the enemy go there. Then you got people with regeneration, those switch between the allies and the dragon and try to heal both. Regeneration should scale quite good on the dragon.

I personally think a lot of mechanics could be implemented in GW2 for huge groups of players outside of instances. That's the important part, no raids. Raids come with their own package of problems and GW2 isn't designed that way.

[Fencers]

I have seen Grenth fail many times no matter the amount of people.

I'll take people's word for it when they say events fail all the time. Statistically, it probably is true given the number of events across all zones and servers. Natch.

However, what I am saying is I have never seen an event fail for any reason other than gross lack of participants.

Not even once.

Raids come with their own package of problems and GW2 isn't designed that way.

A developer could just as easily avoid so-called "package of problems" as create them.

I believe you have said in the past that your only serious experience with MMOs lay mostly in the structure and gameplay specificity of World of Warcraft. Which is fine.

However. Do note that raiding, in it's instances and non-instanced forms, has been implemented in ways apart from the manner & structure of World of Warcraft's raiding.

Of course, this is a World of Warcraft website. So I understand the perception and familiarity in MMOs is predominantly within that specific game here on MMO-Champion. Understandable, but nonetheless lowly.

[Meledelion]

Heigan and Valithra.
Man, no offense, but you like the WORST fights. =D

I agree with that feeling

Also maarius, I know you don't want those mechanics in open world settings but the debate sort of shifted to "gw2 can't have fights like that" which I felt needed a correction

[Valeron]

Well I'll just say I see many complaints in map chat when Grenth fails, it's rather entertaining. And yes it's mainly due to the NPC getting killed (and a lot of that is because people will fight near him).

Balthazar used to fail a lot before they changed him up a bit. Nowadays I don't think anyone does that event anymore though.

Personally I'd like to see more possibilities of events failing and then the consequence of that failed event spurs on further events. The majority of them are just static if they fail.

[Fencers]

Eh, people said the same stuff when the game first came out and every event had 200 people at it, too. Mostly in trying to defend the "dynamic" part of the dynamic event system. I suspect most of it is, "I want this to be true, so here's an anecdote that I kinda believe in my head. Because I want it to be true."

You are right, it is completely anecdotal on my part. Just to reiterate, I am willing to believe events fail often enough.

Does my play experience reflect that reality? Most definitely, not.

When I mention this I am driving at the subjectivity in how people perceive the game here. Where we have some people speaking on the relative ease of the game [lack of mechanics, zerg-ability, length, etc] and others might still argue for the fail state or lack of dedicated roles as evidence of difficulty. Or dynamism, as the case may be.

The entire concept of difficulty is going to be different from person to person. I am afraid there is no way to program for that in video games as of yet.

[Maarius]

However. Do note that raiding, in it's instances and non-instanced forms, has been implemented in ways apart from the manner & structure of World of Warcraft's raiding.

I'd love to hear about how other games do raiding in non-instanced forms and which mechanics these use. I'm pretty sure there are more interesting open world raids than the current ones in GW2 and I feel like telling the devs about these in the forums... It's sad that I haven't got the experience to do so effectively.

---------- Post added 2013-06-05 at 06:36 PM ----------

Heigan and Valithra.
Man, no offense, but you like the WORST fights. =D

haha none taken, to each his own. What are your favourite raid-encounters in any given game?

---------- Post added 2013-06-05 at 06:39 PM ----------

Also maarius, I know you don't want those mechanics in open world settings but the debate sort of shifted to "gw2 can't have fights like that" which I felt needed a correction

but I do, lol. Heigan or Valithra in the open world would be great. Or any other interesting raid mechanic which has none of the baggages raids bring with them (dependent on healers and tanks, the need to make schedules for a game, griefable from single individuums,...)

[Lane]

Sounds like poor design to create a fight that's only fun when no one is interested in it anymore, but then thats pretty much what GW2 world bosses are, pretty constrained by there own design philosophy. (Although in the case of the fire shaman that isn't fun even when no ones interested in it)

And the problem with that is once no one's interested in it anymore it's impossible to do. This has been one of my complaints about both SSC and Orr, too much of it is not soloable (duoable, or even trioable in many cases) and there's rarely anyone else around let alone anyone who's interested in bothering with those events.

The claw of jormag is a drab fight with constant champion spawns whose only effect is to run around dying very very slowly while people fire rockets from the sweet spot at jormag. Gear doesnt have any influence here either.

I hate the Jormag event, I really do. It is so long, annoying, and frankly a blatant waste of time unless you're one of those who loves the mechanics of the fight. There's really no point in showing up until he's on P2 and has | | HP left. Then again, RNG has never favored me in that encounter. I never get anything off the trash and I've never gotten an exotic (let alone a precursor) from either the regular or bonus chest. Given that most rares don't even sell for 20s anymore the time involved to kill him per reward just doesn't seem worth it.