Guild Wars 2: The One Thread

[Meledelion]

Most of the mats I had accumulated while doing other things, so sure there's a "cost" to things, but it does in fact mean it costs less...

No it doesn't. I don't get how people still don't know this but here read this about opportunity cost.

That cost in this case would be of selling your mats. It now cost you the same since you could've just sold the mats.

Let's say you used all your mats to level your crafting. You could've sold those mats for 50g.
Combine those and you see that crafting cost you 50g to level.

[Smitzelplix]

I have a feeling that Arenanet might eventually make ascended weapons sellable, they did after all make most of those special event weapons like the fused weapons sellable after they debuted as account bound. I hope they continue to do that, but then that also makes me wonder if these get changed to be tradeable than why were they account bound in the first place, I wonder what made them change their mind on things like the fused weapons in the first place.

[Svifnymr]

No it doesn't. I don't get how people still don't know this but here read this about opportunity cost.

That cost in this case would be of selling your mats. It now cost you the same since you could've just sold the mats.

Let's say you used all your mats to level your crafting. You could've sold those mats for 50g.
Combine those and you see that crafting cost you 50g to level.

Yes, yes, I understand that. And the simple fact is that you're not going to sell for the same amount at which you will buy, which in fact means "but it does in fact mean it costs less".

I understand that if I was doing something else, I could have made X money, so time is money, that does not mean that the time is a consistent rate. It's also a simple matter that you refine stuff first, which means ore gives more skill than bars, and that buying dowels or inscriptions may save you money vs buying the mats, but since the creation of such means you won't be getting those skill ups, it does not mean it's the most efficient overall. In addition, since you can get some stuff with laurels, rather than gold or time, it offers up another currency to the exchange.

As I said, while leveling or exploring, or when doing the Southsun events for example, I accumulated lots of mats. Since this started, I have parked several alts at spawn points to swap to that alt and grab the nodes before returning to other alts to do stuff. My weaponsmith will be first/highest, but my artificer is also refining mats and leveling skill at the same time.

[Svifnymr]

I have a feeling that Arenanet might eventually make ascended weapons sellable, they did after all make most of those special event weapons like the fused weapons sellable after they debuted as account bound. I hope they continue to do that, but then that also makes me wonder if these get changed to be tradeable than why were they account bound in the first place, I wonder what made them change their mind on things like the fused weapons in the first place.

Quite possible they may do other ascended weapons obtained from some other system and those might be sellable.

The looks of the current batch are okay, but nothing that I find earth shattering, if it was just a skin, I doubt I'd work to get it.

[Deleted]

What loot was promised that you're not getting? I've been in WvW since the update has gone live and have gotten all the mats that can drop from mobs. There's one that drops only from champion loot bags which I admit I've gotten more in pve since there's better access to champions doing pve than in WvW.

Someone asked on the WvWs forums recently (pre-patch) if the mats would drop in WvWs.
A dev stated that they were making them drop as readily as they would in PvE zones.

One boss in any PvE zone, by spamming one & the occasional dodge, can drop more then several towers, camps etc.
Players aren`t dropping them, netiher are sentries, I`ve had a few heavy bags, but again nothing T7 from them, few others I know same problem.

Of the few folk on friends list, all WvWers, barely any are doing it now as they`re just not getting the mats they need. That combined with we`re against a huge coverage server, we`re kind of screwed, so it can takes hours just trying to get one keep at times with little to no guarantee of any loots at all.


As for the one that said they may change them to be TPable.
That should`ve been in from the start.
Sure, the TP flippers, farmers, PvErs would get all of theirs first, then complain that they`ve nothing to do, but those of us that purely sit in WvWs would eventually get them much cheaper on the TP, therefore not having to care about farming crap


btw, they`ve announced Legendary amulet or trinket coming soon, that`ll probably be another gear with higher stats, then before end of year legendary or more arsended gear with higher stats that most of us just can`t afford.

I main a clothie, I`m dreading this shit :$

Edit: Almost forgot, what is the point of having a TP if you can`t sell the stuff you craft/farm onto it?

[Valeron]

Spot on Fishbait.

I'm rather disappointed in the direction of ascended gear.

[Svifnymr]

You'll have to explain where that "fact" even comes from. =O

Given that the TP charges a fee, if the prices are even than you will get less money on the sale than you do when buying. In general the prices for buying will be higher than the prices for selling. Obviously prices fluctuate, but given that the current discussion seems to center on if I had sold it when I got it and it's actually more expensive now than then, it's not even there.

Anyway, it's not really worth an argument, is it?

[Lane]

I heard legendary weapons are supposed to be craftable by the end of the year, but I don't know if that's true. Depending on what was involved I might be tempted to try it.

Unfortunately, I made a lot of long term investments last month so most of my gold is tied up in goods that I need to wait to rise in price. I'm just not gifted when it comes to making money in this game, at least not in terms of playing the market. Did I think to invest in ancient wood due to all the inscriptions needed to level weapon crafting to 500? No. Did I think to invest in the rare back pieces that were in the TP for 1c above vendor cost after I found out they were salvageable? No. The list goes on and on and it's really frustrating.

[Meledelion]

Given that the TP charges a fee, if the prices are even than you will get less money on the sale than you do when buying. In general the prices for buying will be higher than the prices for selling. Obviously prices fluctuate, but given that the current discussion seems to center on if I had sold it when I got it and it's actually more expensive now than then, it's not even there.

Anyway, it's not really worth an argument, is it?

It is since this is very basic but important economics.

Given your reasoning it would be impossible to "flip" while I and many others have proven it's very possible...

[Deleted]

I heard legendary weapons are supposed to be craftable by the end of the year, but I don't know if that's true. Depending on what was involved I might be tempted to try it.

Unfortunately, I made a lot of long term investments last month so most of my gold is tied up in goods that I need to wait to rise in price. I'm just not gifted when it comes to making money in this game, at least not in terms of playing the market. Did I think to invest in ancient wood due to all the inscriptions needed to level weapon crafting to 500? No. Did I think to invest in the rare back pieces that were in the TP for 1c above vendor cost after I found out they were salvageable? No. The list goes on and on and it's really frustrating.

Do you mean Precursors?
I know they`ve mentioned making those craftable, legendaries already are.
I can onyl imagine the amount of crap folk would need for those too /shudder.

[Svifnymr]

It is since this is very basic but important economics.

Given your reasoning it would be impossible to "flip" while I and many others have proven it's very possible...

We're speaking of a specific process by which you gain the mats to level a craft for Ascended weapons, not the general environment of MMO's. The further along you get from the spike of folks buying, the cheaper it will get, for example. If we were talking about making money, I should be selling the stuff now (orichalcum and ancient wood) rather than using them.

I was using my situation as part of the discussion, not endorsing the cheapest way to level crafting immediately. Folks want to quote the standard oppurtunity costs when I'm talking about using alts to mine stuff and having a good stockpile of stuff gained while adventuring. If you want to say that Orichalcum did cost me X amount because that's what I can buy it for right now, then you'd be wrong since I can't sell it for that right now. If you're saying that I could have sold my orichalcum on tuesday and bought it next tuesday for less and leveled Weaponsmithing then, you'd be right, but it has nothing to do really do with what I said, right?

So yeah, that's why I said "Anyway, it's not really worth an argument, is it? ", because taking a simple thing and blowing it into a big thread diversion really doesn't make sense.

- - - Updated - - -

I'd really enjoy a good housing system in GW2. Somewhat unsatisfied with Aion's housing [too restrictive.] and Rift's [way too build-y. oh hell no.].

Have you seen the video for Wildstar's player housing? Just curious how it compares to what you've experienced before.

[Meledelion]

We're speaking of a specific process by which you gain the mats to level a craft for Ascended weapons, not the general environment of MMO's. The further along you get from the spike of folks buying, the cheaper it will get, for example. If we were talking about making money, I should be selling the stuff now (orichalcum and ancient wood) rather than using them.

I was using my situation as part of the discussion, not endorsing the cheapest way to level crafting immediately. Folks want to quote the standard oppurtunity costs when I'm talking about using alts to mine stuff and having a good stockpile of stuff gained while adventuring. If you want to say that Orichalcum did cost me X amount because that's what I can buy it for right now, then you'd be wrong since I can't sell it for that right now. If you're saying that I could have sold my orichalcum on tuesday and bought it next tuesday for less and leveled Weaponsmithing then, you'd be right, but it has nothing to do really do with what I said, right?

So yeah, that's why I said "Anyway, it's not really worth an argument, is it? ", because taking a simple thing and blowing it into a big thread diversion really doesn't make sense.

How can you not get this: it's "cheaper" to sell your mats(raw goods) and use that money to buy craftings mats (intermediate goods) and craft weapons (finished products).

If you're gathering in any way shape or form, it's 99% of the time CHEAPER to SELL that stuff and BUYING semi-finished goods than to CRAFT semi finished goods with raw mats.

also you said this:

I haven't actually spent anything yet other than waypoint fees and themolytics, and I'm up to 458 weaponsmithing. I imagine it'll take some time progressing, but most of the stuff is farmable.

[Deleted]

Something posted on WvWs forums earlier:

"1 hour of temples today in a mega blob of 80 people = 90 dragonite ore.

That’s only 25 keeps and an Sm cap or 3."


/wrist

[Arlee]

Do you mean Precursors?
I know they`ve mentioned making those craftable, legendaries already are.
I can onyl imagine the amount of crap folk would need for those too /shudder.

Yea it's precursers. Also I think they have hinted/said that it won't be just crafting but also a quest chain type thing as well.

[zito]

So they were talking about map revamps some time ago, looks like most underwater parts in WvW are being diminished and Spvp water maps also.

They kinda just gave up on underwater huh? Well... they gave up on underwater when they gave rangers that OP underwater pet heal that's impossible to stop.

[Meledelion]

It's normal, nobody likes underwater + you can't comment it at all since ppl can be attacking far from view.

[zito]

If they really want to make underwater combat viable it should get it's own gear set and trait spec imo.

[Svifnymr]

How can you not get this: it's "cheaper" to sell your mats(raw goods) and use that money to buy craftings mats (intermediate goods) and craft weapons (finished products).

Sell my MATS to buy MATS? It's the same mats! I'm refining mats to increase my crafting skill.

So, I guess you're right, I don't get it, I don't know what you're talking about anymore.

If you're gathering in any way shape or form, it's 99% of the time CHEAPER to SELL that stuff and BUYING semi-finished goods than to CRAFT semi finished goods with raw mats.

If you don't want to level your skill, why are you selling and buying mats to do it with?

also you said this:

As I said, I have alts that sit at nodes, I log over to them and mine, run 20' and chop down a tree, then switch out. Not sure why that's unclear.

- - - Updated - - -

Something posted on WvWs forums earlier:

"1 hour of temples today in a mega blob of 80 people = 90 dragonite ore.

That’s only 25 keeps and an Sm cap or 3."


/wrist

I wonder how they'd equalize it though, to avoid having some pve folks hop in to grab a single cap (if they increased the reward) for a quick reward near the end of the process? Maybe they should have intermediate rewards along the way for things you're doing towards the end goal, but I don't know enough about Wv to say how it'd work.

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If they really want to make underwater combat viable it should get it's own gear set and trait spec imo.

Some traits and a selection of helms would be nice, if not full on stuff.

[zed zebes]

I heard legendary weapons are supposed to be craftable by the end of the year, but I don't know if that's true. Depending on what was involved I might be tempted to try it.

Unfortunately, I made a lot of long term investments last month so most of my gold is tied up in goods that I need to wait to rise in price. I'm just not gifted when it comes to making money in this game, at least not in terms of playing the market. Did I think to invest in ancient wood due to all the inscriptions needed to level weapon crafting to 500? No. Did I think to invest in the rare back pieces that were in the TP for 1c above vendor cost after I found out they were salvageable? No. The list goes on and on and it's really frustrating.

I think there will be a pre-cursor solution and maybe that's where the crafting comes in.


Also, a lot of people are just bad at underwater combat. My server (SBI) is notorious for pulling bigger servers into the water because for some reason they all suck at underwater combat. If I'm being chased, I'll jump into the water. If they follow me, I can kill them.

However, there's also some oddities to underwater combat that don't appear elsewhere in the game. There's no underwater stomping, and there's two ways for a downed opponent to refill health. This makes underwater fights last longer and creates issues like the ranger's pet healing. Also, they don't even support underwater headgear in the game. The best you can get is Masterwork from Karma vendors.

[Meledelion]

Sell my MATS to buy MATS? It's the same mats! I'm refining mats to increase my crafting skill.

So, I guess you're right, I don't get it, I don't know what you're talking about anymore.


If you don't want to level your skill, why are you selling and buying mats to do it with?



As I said, I have alts that sit at nodes, I log over to them and mine, run 20' and chop down a tree, then switch out. Not sure why that's unclear.

You sell raw mats(ancient wood/ore/...) to buy crafting mats(dowels/gs blade/...) to make finished goods (greatsword)

You're doing that because it's cheaper to craft that way.

I don't care about where your alts are, I'm saying that it's CHEAPER to sell the mats you get by gathering and selling those to buy INTERMEDIATE GOODS with.