Guild Wars 2: The One Thread

[Meledelion]

The most successful games in this genre are specifically successful for their broad appeal and ease of play. Indeed, the defining design of the most successful MMO ever made is it's extreme approachability and ease of play. Which defines the 2nd MMO era totally.

Gw2 is a fair bit more successful than GW1 was in the competitive market. It's Anet desire to create a product for entertaining a broad spectrum of persons. So it worked.

I don't fully agree, you're hinting at WoW and how simple it is (if I read your post right).

Yet in order to see the lore and what not you need to raid. Even in WoW raids get balanced around "good" builds (because the beta-testers are hardcore raiders).

Sure plenty of people didn't need a raid-build to enjoy WoW, but those people didn't have the goal to learn why you're fighting Algalon and who exactly that is.
If you want to know what's up with Algalon you buckle up and get a decent build (or wait until you out gear the content).

Also the market is a lot more open now than when it was just GW vs WoW vs Eve vs ...
People got tired of WoW and are looking for other stuff, so they try out other stuff making other stuff more successful. I'm 100% certain that if GW was released now (with upgraded GFX and jumping since that's apparently a deal breaker for people) it would be more successful than it was.

[Svifnymr]

Yeah, but I'm talking about if they allow stat changes on ascended armor that would be the only armor set you'd ever need.

Sure, though who knows how they'll bring in changing stats, I don't think everything will get the Legendary toggle, probably some new gem store item or something at the rate they're going.

It'd still be better if the cultural armor/ order armor and some others maybe were skins though. As you point out, most gem store purchases are skins, so you'd need to split them off, but most other stuff that you can get again, the cost is probably cheaper to replace the piece than to split it off.

I don't know how much it costs to craft a set of ascended armor (or if drop rates would be adjusted enough for that to even be a feasible means of re-acquisition), but I'm currently assuming that you would not want to destroy your ascended armor every time you wanted to switch skins, also assuming you would not always want to permanently destroy previous skins, and thus splitters would become a necessity.

I'm mostly refering to some specific armors already in game that you can gain whenever you need, but always must get them as an actual statted-piece of armor. How many people buy cultural armor and don't transmute it? Does anyone buy it FOR the stats? Order armor is the same way. Temple armor or dungeon armor some folks might use for stats as well.

Backpieces would probably be the best example of some item that is constantly under threat of "look at this new skin!", I think. Weapons also have some expensive models that you might want to transmute to an ascended.

[Fencers]

Wasn`t Guild Wars also released during a time when cable/fibre didn`t exist & that many folk had no internet? So gw2 is bound to seem more popular as, well, who doesn`t have internot access these days? hehe

And so was the market leader of the genre. The proliferation of affordable internet access certainly helped the genre grow. But that doesn't discount contemporaries of GW1 that are still major forces in the market and genre.

I don't fully agree, you're hinting at WoW and how simple it is (if I read your post right).

Yes.

Yet in order to see the lore and what not you need to raid. Even in WoW raids get balanced around "good" builds (because the beta-testers are hardcore raiders).

What relevance is lore here?

Also WoW's raids are only complex relative to other gameplay modes. Though their raids are comparatively simple from a design and gameplay POV to pre and post games of the genre.

There is no AAA game I know of in the genre that is as approachable as World of Warcraft. The only games which come close are MMOs made literally for children.

Also the market is a lot more open now than when it was just GW vs WoW vs Eve vs ...

The market broadened. Also World of Warcraft still dominates the genre and market despite greater fragmentation in the market.

[Fernling306]

Just to show how easy Tequatl is if you have the right people on turrets... Downed with everyone being naked!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC_K...ature=youtu.be

[Meledelion]

What relevance is lore here?

Also WoW's raids are only complex relative to other gameplay modes. Though their raids are comparatively simple from a design and gameplay POV to pre and post games of the genre.

There is no AAA game I know of in the genre that is as approachable as World of Warcraft. The only games which come close are MMOs made literally for children.

The market broadened. Also World of Warcraft still dominates the genre and market despite greater fragmentation in the market.

1. I was preemptively striking at "but the majority doesn't raid so the difficulty isn't there" sort of arguments. You can enjoy fishing and do that naked with 0skills on your bar and what not.

But for raids there's quite a bit of theory-crafting/optimizing going on which is the kind of complexity we're talking about "It was too hard to find good builds for most people..."

Yet WoW has plenty of people who raid and find the builds, those that don't get the builds simply don't have a play-style (or aren't interested in a specific type of content) that requires good builds.

2. Doesn't matter we're talking builds, not encounter difficulty

3. I personally haven't encountered any hurdles in any game ever so it's hard for me to imagine approachability is an issue. People seem to find dungeons chaotic in GW2, I don't. People seem to find dodging OHK attacks hard to dodge, I don't.

I honestly can't grasp that a game (at the tutorial/intro level) is too hard for someone since we seem to be talking about that since Raids are quite unapproachable in WoW for most people.

Just to show how easy Tequatl is if you have the right people on turrets... Downed with everyone being naked!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC_K...ature=youtu.be

This has been known for ages, Taco is an easy fight the only hard part is getting the people to listen.

[Fencers]

1. I was preemptively striking at "but the majority doesn't raid so the difficulty isn't there" sort of arguments. You can enjoy fishing and do that naked with 0skills on your bar and what not.

But for raids there's quite a bit of theory-crafting/optimizing going on which is the kind of complexity we're talking about "It was too hard to find good builds for most people..."

Yet WoW has plenty of people who raid and find the builds, those that don't get the builds simply don't have a play-style (or aren't interested in a specific type of content) that requires good builds.

2. Doesn't matter we're talking builds, not encounter difficulty

3. I personally haven't encountered any hurdles in any game ever so it's hard for me to imagine approachability is an issue. People seem to find dungeons chaotic in GW2, I don't. People seem to find dodging OHK attacks hard to dodge, I don't.

I honestly can't grasp that a game (at the tutorial/intro level) is too hard for someone since we seem to be talking about that since Raids are quite unapproachable in WoW for most people.

This has been known for ages, Taco is an easy fight the only hard part is getting the people to listen.

1. I still don't know what relevance that is to approachability and accessibility in gameplay. Pursing fishing is kinda in line with my point that the most successful game in the genre is one of the most approachable.

MMOs made in the era post-WoW's success [naturally] often strive to streamline, truncate or otherwise mute complexity and obliqueness in gameplay.

2. No, you are talking builds.

I was not commenting on builds specifically. However, I was commenting on post-WoW design which emphasizes ease of play and approachability based on the developer comments regarding builds.

3. Personal view of challenge is not relevant.

The gameplay of Warcraft's raids is among the lowest in the genre. And should one wish to raid, from a non-raid standpoint within a specific mode of World of Warcraft, World of Warcraft is the least divergent and taxing implementation of that gameplay mode I am aware of currently.

[Deleted]

Well, looks like either GW2Guru, Reddit, MMO-Champion or some other site will be getting a bucket load of new viewers soon, courtesy of the op mods of anet:

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/foru...st#post3393146

One player`s made a self regulating site, will have to see if that becomes the new homeland for pvpers

http://wvwforums.denravialliance.com/

[Valeron]

video game forums are cesspools anyway

they are probably worse than sports forums for vitriol

[zed zebes]

Don't feel that's a smart decision by them. It will just spill out into the other WvWvW forums.

[Valeron]

they should have never had public forums in the first place. well maybe something for tech issues but that's it. GW1 did just fine without them.

[Fencers]

they should have never had public forums in the first place. well maybe something for tech issues but that's it. GW1 did just fine without them.

It kinda didn't.

One of the hindrances to GW1 was it's lack of market visibility. The game was very nearly what one could call quintessentially, "a sleeper" MMO.

It was fairly logical given GW2's marketing, the founder's proclamation that they were going to "take on" World of Warcraft's market dominance and the mass market friendly design of GW2 Anet would have to open forums of their own.

People talking about your game is important.

[Lane]

I've never liked that they don't have server forums. Match-ups was about the closest you got and even then I rarely saw people from mine post, it was usually the other two servers going back and forth.

I've also never been keen on privately owned server websites. I suppose too many experiences of the owner either turning out to be a jerk and/or abandoning the responsibility combined with usually low turnout.

[Arlee]

This has been known for ages, Taco is an easy fight the only hard part is getting the people to listen.

Eh, on my server the hardest part is getting people to show-up for it

[zed zebes]

I am starting to reach burn out point on WvWvW. I think I may just stick to running with the few from my guild that do it. I end up commanding when there's nobody else to do it, which means I'm working during the worst period of time for our server. I am lucky to have 8 or 9 on me at times, but normally have to settle for three or four people with me. I don't know if they are all on voicecoms with me or not, and I don't know their builds and they aren't familiar. So it's harder to organize and get people to follow along as well. The situations limits what you can do, but I am decent at ninja work. I know some appreciate it, but some of the folks who come on later don't understand and have bad attitudes. So much of making things work in WvWvW is behavior training a culmination of people. When the next shift comes around and they bitch on chat, it creates bad juju.

The key point being that I described it as working instead of having fun.

[sergel02]

Man, I've only explored the first three Ascalon zones (Plains, Diessa, and Fields of Ruin) but I hope the higher level ones change a bit in scenery. All 3 of them looks exactly the same so far.

I would have Plains at 100% complete if it weren't for that one Point of interest in the orge stronghold.

[Valeron]

all of Ascalon has that similar look. you have to go to Kryta, the Shiverpeaks, or Maguuma Jungle if you want a different type of scenery

[zed zebes]

Best parts of Ascalon are Ebonhawke and parts of the Iron Marches.

[Lane]

Man, I've only explored the first three Ascalon zones (Plains, Diessa, and Fields of Ruin) but I hope the higher level ones change a bit in scenery. All 3 of them looks exactly the same so far.

All of the racial zones are like that. All the snow zones look alike, all the jungle zones look alike, etc. You have to bounce around if you want variety.

The Ascalonian zones are actually my favorite. I guess because unlike snowy or forested zones I haven't been overexposed to the look of them in other MMOs.

[Valeron]

you know the one type of zone we don't have yet is desert

one of the reasons why I think the Crystal Desert is upcoming in a big update (or perhaps I'm just wishing that)

[nevermore]

All of the racial zones are like that. All the snow zones look alike, all the jungle zones look alike, etc. You have to bounce around if you want variety.

The Ascalonian zones are actually my favorite. I guess because unlike snowy or forested zones I haven't been overexposed to the look of them in other MMOs.

snowy zones > all ;D

The music in Ascalon is the best though <3