1. #29461
    Quote Originally Posted by Maarius View Post
    well yes, other professions can do other things in a different way, that's the nature of the game. Wouldn't it be boring if everyone would only play optimized?

    I just like the playstyle of Rangers in melee + the option to switch to a really good ranged weapon. Personally I don't care what other professions can do better or worse, that's just not me. I don't switch professions if another nerv is incoming, I just play on and focus on the things that are fun to do. Yes, I could play a hammer guardian and autocast skill 1 for perma-protections... it's just not fun for me.
    I'm not talking about other things in a different way, I'm talking the same thing but better. In this case standing toe to toe with your enemies can be done and can be done better by a guardian also using the GS. You can initiate the battle, switch to another weapon/utility and safely rez a downed ally.

    The thing I'm wondering is: what do you like about GS rangers that you don't find in GS war/guardian/mes. The option to switch to a really good ranged weapon is there for mes/war without a doubt, guardian's scepter is actually pretty good for dmg aswell.

    I'm not talking about a class being better than another for x,y,z like you bring up the hammer guardian. What I am trying to find out is if you like GS (the weapon) why did you opt for a ranger? To me it seems like people level a toon are comfy with that toon and don't want to level another class even though the playstyle is very similar and better on another class.

  2. #29462
    Wait a second. Why would one need to create a new character to use melee weapons? Could you not like, just equip melee weapons on an already existing Ranger.

  3. #29463
    Quote Originally Posted by Meledelion View Post
    The thing I'm wondering is: what do you like about GS rangers that you don't find in GS war/guardian/mes. The option to switch to a really good ranged weapon is there for mes/war without a doubt, guardian's scepter is actually pretty good for dmg aswell.

    I'm not talking about a class being better than another for x,y,z like you bring up the hammer guardian. What I am trying to find out is if you like GS (the weapon) why did you opt for a ranger? To me it seems like people level a toon are comfy with that toon and don't want to level another class even though the playstyle is very similar and better on another class.
    It's really easy to answer, I just like Ranger-Skills and Traits, I like how they do things other professions can probably do too.
    -) I like my pet, not because it's better/worse than minions, clones etc. but because I can command it in certain ways (attack/return, animalskill, revive,...)
    -) I love the shortbow. I love it because you can shoot through enemies and get rewarded for flanking the enemy.
    -) I love the Greatsword on ranger because it's not a offensive weapon but a defensive one. Easy leap-finisher + block + evade. Skill 1 has a decent synergy with quickness (which is aktive a lot of times, via. pet-swap + utility). Quickness is universal, good for killing and good for reviving.
    -) I love the trap-greatsword combos. It makes a condition-build very fun to play with GS. You want enemies to swarm you + you evade while they are burning to death while chilled and crippled. + leap-finisher for a good AoE heal + flameshield. Enemies are just melting away while I stand there evading, dodging (-> protection) and laughing at them.

    Everytime I enter a ranger-forum I wonder if they are talking about another game... I just have no idea why I should be worried. Just know that GS has other roles to play than pure dps.

  4. #29464
    So me and my brother is going to start playing, whats a good class for pvp? he will be a warrior, i was thinking either a necro, guardian maby a engineer or thief, hard time desiding all those classes looks fun. Dosent really mather if it's ranged or melee, i like both though i always like to use shield but not a must, btw do guardians use a shield in pvp or do they use a 2-hander.

    And do necros and engineers use pets/turrets in pvp or is that more for pve?, watched a few videos off necro pvp and they did not use pets.
    Do you hear the voices too?

  5. #29465
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Wait a second. Why would one need to create a new character to use melee weapons? Could you not like, just equip melee weapons on an already existing Ranger.
    You could ofc, but I'm talking about why would you roll a ranger and then focus on GS, especially since other classes are far more effective with the same weapon.
    In my mind if you roll a ranger you do it for the bows or pets. As I said before if you do it for pets you shouldn't be hellbent on using a particular weapon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maarius View Post
    It's really easy to answer, I just like Ranger-Skills and Traits, I like how they do things other professions can probably do too.
    -) I like my pet, not because it's better/worse than minions, clones etc. but because I can command it in certain ways (attack/return, animalskill, revive,...)
    -) I love the shortbow. I love it because you can shoot through enemies and get rewarded for flanking the enemy.
    -) I love the Greatsword on ranger because it's not a offensive weapon but a defensive one. Easy leap-finisher + block + evade. Skill 1 has a decent synergy with quickness (which is aktive a lot of times, via. pet-swap + utility). Quickness is universal, good for killing and good for reviving.
    -) I love the trap-greatsword combos. It makes a condition-build very fun to play with GS. You want enemies to swarm you + you evade while they are burning to death while chilled and crippled. + leap-finisher for a good AoE heal + flameshield. Enemies are just melting away while I stand there evading, dodging (-> protection) and laughing at them.

    Everytime I enter a ranger-forum I wonder if they are talking about another game... I just have no idea why I should be worried. Just know that GS has other roles to play than pure dps.
    I don't get how you can prefer one thing over another if they do the same thing.
    Liking your pet doesn't mean you have to use GS
    SB idd is great but again how does it tie in with GS usage?
    GS doesn't work all that well with traps, you can't stack bleed nor poison reliably with the GS (as opposed to sword/dagger/sb)

    What do you mean with your last sentences?

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-16 at 03:59 PM ----------

    Most high end teams run with guardian/war/mes/thief, bunker guard/war use shields but you won't be dealing dmg and you won't be roaming. The thief and mes are the opposite they are roamers dealing loads of dmg.
    Ofc you don't have to bunker as guard/war but if you want to use a shield that's pretty much your only option. Do note though that the guardian focus works very similarly to a shield mechanics wise.

  6. #29466
    Quote Originally Posted by Meledelion View Post
    I don't get how you can prefer one thing over another if they do the same thing.
    But it doesn't do the same thing. Have you read my post? Greatsword on ranger is NOT a dsp-weapon. Read again and focus on the words "evade", "dodge->protection" and "quickness as defensive move". Add the Frosttrap and Spiketrap in melee-range as another defensive tool.

    Liking your pet doesn't mean you have to use GS
    Well I love GS (the style) and I love a responding pet, this I can only have on ranger.

    SB idd is great but again how does it tie in with GS usage?
    2 sets make a playstyle for me, I'm switching when needed. Shortbow has a great synergy in hunting down the enemies who come out of my melee-fire-spike-frost-hell. Shoot them in the back means a lot of bleeding stacks. As my melee-style is very aoe viable I'm doing more damage in melee GS with traps and making sure that enemies stay in my draps as I would with the singletarget-weapon shortbow (if not traited as aoe-viable via. piercing arrows). But again, it's not about dps, my shortbow-ranger wouldn't be able to stand that much incoming damage.

    GS doesn't work all that well with traps, you can't stack bleed nor poison reliably with the GS (as opposed to sword/dagger/sb)
    For me it does, since those burning enemies are chilled and crippled, so more time for me to do non-condition damage.

  7. #29467
    Quote Originally Posted by Maarius View Post
    But it doesn't do the same thing. Have you read my post? Greatsword on ranger is NOT a dsp-weapon. Read again and focus on the words "evade", "dodge->protection" and "quickness as defensive move". Add the Frosttrap and Spiketrap in melee-range as another defensive tool.
    Guardians are as "defensive" as rangers as I said earlier, with the difference that guardians add team utility at the same time and actually dealing dmg.
    A defensive weapon focuss on negating dmg, the GS doesn't do this for rangers, the evade can not be controlled. The block can but you sacrifice criple for it. And traps aren't bound to GS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maarius View Post
    Well I love GS (the style) and I love a responding pet, this I can only have on ranger.
    One of the issues with pets is how unresponsive they are, additionally you're cripling yourself by being in melee and using a pet since you can't "call back" to help it avoid aoe dmg.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maarius View Post
    2 sets make a playstyle for me, I'm switching when needed. Shortbow has a great synergy in hunting down the enemies who come out of my melee-fire-spike-frost-hell. Shoot them in the back means a lot of bleeding stacks. As my melee-style is very aoe viable I'm doing more damage in melee GS with traps and making sure that enemies stay in my traps as I would with the singletarget-weapon shortbow (if not traited as aoe-viable via. piercing arrows). But again, it's not about dps, my shortbow-ranger wouldn't be able to stand that much incoming damage.
    Yes 2sets make a playstyle the issue is that they don't work together due to how lackluster the GS is, if you go for condi dmg you can't keep up bleeds with gs meaning you'll be playing with your sb more, if you're using the sb more I'd look for a weapon that boosts it's use like axe/wh or torch.
    The game hardly ever is about AoE dmg, and again in comparison to other classes with GS our aoe is very lackluster.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maarius View Post
    For me it does, since those burning enemies are chilled and crippled, so more time for me to do non-condition damage.
    No mate you're ignoring what I said, GS can't stack conditions, what you say is true for Traps but this counts for all weapons.

  8. #29468
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    Quote Originally Posted by ParanoiD84 View Post
    So me and my brother is going to start playing, whats a good class for pvp? he will be a warrior, i was thinking either a necro, guardian maby a engineer or thief, hard time desiding all those classes looks fun. Dosent really mather if it's ranged or melee, i like both though i always like to use shield but not a must, btw do guardians use a shield in pvp or do they use a 2-hander.

    And do necros and engineers use pets/turrets in pvp or is that more for pve?, watched a few videos off necro pvp and they did not use pets.
    since people are caught in a silly argument, (which btw it does not matter if the class is at the bleeding edge as long as you like it's playstyle, balance changes are gone incrementally so give it time if things need changing they will get them eventually), guardians can use quite a few weapons 1H and 2H basically play with the skills you like: skills are tied to the weapon equipped so the weapon you choose if far more important that say in WoW.

    Necro pets are kinda bugged atm so unless you learn to work within the confines of the bug you want to go with as few pets as possible 'til their AI is fixed. Engineers use turrets all the time and they seem to work fine from what i can tell in both PvPvE. Mesmers also have "pets" but they are less persistent and can be re-summoned rather rapidly.
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  9. #29469
    Quote Originally Posted by Odeezee View Post
    since people are caught in a silly argument, (which btw it does not matter if the class is at the bleeding edge as long as you like it's playstyle, balance changes are gone incrementally so give it time if things need changing they will get them eventually), guardians can use quite a few weapons 1H and 2H basically play with the skills you like: skills are tied to the weapon equipped so the weapon you choose if far more important that say in WoW.

    Necro pets are kinda bugged atm so unless you learn to work within the confines of the bug you want to go with as few pets as possible 'til their AI is fixed. Engineers use turrets all the time and they seem to work fine from what i can tell in both PvPvE. Mesmers also have "pets" but they are less persistent and can be re-summoned rather rapidly.
    Thank you, i think i will make a male norn guardian and a female necro, maby a thief also later on. How long does it take ruffly to ding 80 in this game? and also can i as a guardian use all heavy armor in the game or does warrior and guardian have seperate armor sets.
    Do you hear the voices too?

  10. #29470
    Guardians and Warriors use the same armor.

    How long does it take to ding 80? Well you could get there in just a few hours by crafting if you have a lot of money. I don't really recommend that though since it really isn't a bimodal game.

  11. #29471
    Quote Originally Posted by Meledelion View Post
    Guardians are as "defensive" as rangers as I said earlier, with the difference that guardians add team utility at the same time and actually dealing dmg.
    A defensive weapon focuss on negating dmg, the GS doesn't do this for rangers, the evade can not be controlled. The block can but you sacrifice criple for it. And traps aren't bound to GS.
    I can control my evade and dodges pretty well, at least as good as a defensive guardian with his chain3 protection on hammer. I thought we were talking about GS and not utility-skills, since you repeatedly tell me that I mustn't talk about traps. GS for guardian is not a defensive weapon, so your argument is flawed. Rangers, if you want to talk now about utilities, have the best regeneration-field in the game: healing spring. Now combine that with the GS leap and you got some decent group-heal. The only defensive thing on GS guardian is the single target blind. A poor comparison to the GS ranger.


    One of the issues with pets is how unresponsive they are, additionally you're cripling yourself by being in melee and using a pet since you can't "call back" to help it avoid aoe dmg.
    if you trait your pets the right way there is no need for them to avoid aoe, they heal themselves good enough; swap them constantly and you do something for their survival and get quickness for yourself too. In dungeons you use bears most of the time and I have yet to see a bear die in aoe.

    Yes 2sets make a playstyle the issue is that they don't work together due to how lackluster the GS is, if you go for condi dmg you can't keep up bleeds with gs meaning you'll be playing with your sb more, if you're using the sb more I'd look for a weapon that boosts it's use like axe/wh or torch.
    The game hardly ever is about AoE dmg, and again in comparison to other classes with GS our aoe is very lackluster.

    No mate you're ignoring what I said, GS can't stack conditions, what you say is true for Traps but this counts for all weapons.
    I don't get you, in one sentence you talk about "the game hardly is ever about AoE dmg", and then talking about how I can't keep up condi dmg. What you seem to ignore: this weapon is about outliving enemies, not stacking conditions. Conditions are a nice to have damage to hurt everyone who gets close to me. When it doesn't work for you, maybe you are doing something wrong. Calling it lackluster shows me only that you don't know what you're doing. I had no problems so far. Personally I don't like those maximising stats, a good balance is much more worth to me and my group.

  12. #29472
    Quote Originally Posted by Maarius View Post
    I can control my evade and dodges pretty well, at least as good as a defensive guardian with his chain3 protection on hammer. I thought we were talking about GS and not utility-skills, since you repeatedly tell me that I mustn't talk about traps. GS for guardian is not a defensive weapon, so your argument is flawed. Rangers, if you want to talk now about utilities, have the best regeneration-field in the game: healing spring. Now combine that with the GS leap and you got some decent group-heal. The only defensive thing on GS guardian is the single target blind. A poor comparison to the GS ranger.
    I'm not talking about it's utility skills, I meant aegis and health regen they inherently have.
    Actually blind + my previous post outshine defense of GS rang and it's dmg.
    Healing spring provides a decent heal sure but you're sacrificing your selfheal/pet heal just to heal ppl things which guardians needn't do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maarius View Post
    if you trait your pets the right way there is no need for them to avoid aoe, they heal themselves good enough; swap them constantly and you do something for their survival and get quickness for yourself too. In dungeons you use bears most of the time and I have yet to see a bear die in aoe.
    Bears don't do any dmg and don't bring any utility either, they can "take dmg" and that's it. They can't tank since you outdps them so you pull agro.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maarius View Post
    I don't get you, in one sentence you talk about "the game hardly is ever about AoE dmg", and then talking about how I can't keep up condi dmg. What you seem to ignore: this weapon is about outliving enemies, not stacking conditions. Conditions are a nice to have damage to hurt everyone who gets close to me. When it doesn't work for you, maybe you are doing something wrong. Calling it lackluster shows me only that you don't know what you're doing. I had no problems so far. Personally I don't like those maximising stats, a good balance is much more worth to me and my group.
    You're talking about your melee style being "very aoe viable" to which I respond that AoE hardly ever is useful.
    Not being able to stack condi dmg has nothing to do with AoE. Not being able to stack conditions with the gs is another point.
    Damaging everyone who gets close with your conditions is a moot point since you're relying on your traps and not on your GS to do this.
    I'm not saying conditions aren't worth it I'm saying GS isn't worth going conditions with.
    Not having problems doesn't mean you're playing in the most optimal way.

    So me saying that our GS AoE is lackluster in comparison to other classes' GS tells you I don't know what I'm doing? That's funny since 4/5 Gua gs are AoE dmg 4/5 War gs are AoE ranger? 3/5, and as you've said earlier our dmg is lower than everyone elses. So yes ranger GS aoe dmg is lackluster...

  13. #29473
    Quote Originally Posted by Meledelion View Post
    You could ofc, but I'm talking about why would you roll a ranger and then focus on GS, especially since other classes are far more effective with the same weapon.
    Question was aimed at the guy who rolled a new character to just use melee weapons. Not interested in this GS debate and it wouldn't address my question anyway.

    What's the logic behind starting a new character to use melee weapons if one can equip/trait an exiting character to that end? I do not understand why a player would do this when the game system allows flexibility.

  14. #29474
    Quote Originally Posted by Meledelion View Post
    I'm not talking about it's utility skills, I meant aegis and health regen they inherently have.
    Actually blind + my previous post outshine defense of GS rang and it's dmg.
    Healing spring provides a decent heal sure but you're sacrificing your selfheal/pet heal just to heal ppl things which guardians needn't do.

    Bears don't do any dmg and don't bring any utility either, they can "take dmg" and that's it. They can't tank since you outdps them so you pull agro.

    You're talking about your melee style being "very aoe viable" to which I respond that AoE hardly ever is useful.
    Not being able to stack condi dmg has nothing to do with AoE. Not being able to stack conditions with the gs is another point.
    Damaging everyone who gets close with your conditions is a moot point since you're relying on your traps and not on your GS to do this.
    I'm not saying conditions aren't worth it I'm saying GS isn't worth going conditions with.
    Not having problems doesn't mean you're playing in the most optimal way.

    So me saying that our GS AoE is lackluster in comparison to other classes' GS tells you I don't know what I'm doing? That's funny since 4/5 Gua gs are AoE dmg 4/5 War gs are AoE ranger? 3/5, and as you've said earlier our dmg is lower than everyone elses. So yes ranger GS aoe dmg is lackluster...
    -) Guardian blind from GS has 15sek. CD. Nothing shines here for me.
    -) Healing Spring isn't only regeneration, it heals you and your pet too for a certain amount. Nothing is sacrificed.
    -) Bears bring no utility?
    Blackbear: 10sek Weakness
    Brownbear: Cure a condition on yourself and ALL nearby allies (25s CD)
    Polar Bear: Chill

    furthermore pets can revive fallen allies, myself and they make a decent tank. What's a better utility than one more ally who soaks up some damage?

    -)Can't tank because I outdamage them and pull aggro? Are we talking about WoW or GW2?? From the wiki:
    The aggro table of a hostile NPC changes dynamically depending on a number of factors, in order of importance [citation needed] :
    1. closest target to them
    2. who is dealing damage
    3. top damage dealers
    4. who is using a shield / has more toughness and overall armor
    5. others (see Tanking tactics below)
    -) damaging everyone who gets close to me via traps is no moot point since the traps rely on me standing in it to be effective. I can only stand in the traps and survive masses of enemies with the GS or a decent played sword (which I don't like that much because it's nearly impossible to use your dodge which gives you protection when traited). My traps alone are worthless, since enemies just pass through. If however I stand in there, use leapfinishers and dodge + evade + quickness, it's quite effective and even though it is very defensive, I do OK damage. Warrior would probably do superb damage, but won't stay alive very long. Guardian GS can blind nearby enemies only once every 15sec. which is bad imho. To play a guardian defensive I'd suggest hammer or mace-shield/focus.

    I see no point in arguing further, it seems I don't get your point and you don't get mine. I'd say we agree to disagree, I keep playing my ranger and have tons of fun with it and you play guardian, warrior, whatever.

  15. #29475
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Question was aimed at the guy who rolled a new character to just use melee weapons. Not interested in this GS debate and it wouldn't address my question anyway.

    What's the logic behind starting a new character to use melee weapons if one can equip/trait an exiting character to that end? I do not understand why a player would do this when the game system allows flexibility.
    Because I can, and I wanted a different race with the same class. The beauty of freedom of choice

  16. #29476
    Quote Originally Posted by Maarius View Post
    -) Guardian blind from GS has 15sek. CD. Nothing shines here for me.
    -) Healing Spring isn't only regeneration, it heals you and your pet too for a certain amount. Nothing is sacrificed.
    -) Bears bring no utility?
    Blackbear: 10sek Weakness
    Brownbear: Cure a condition on yourself and ALL nearby allies (25s CD)
    Polar Bear: Chill

    furthermore pets can revive fallen allies, myself and they make a decent tank. What's a better utility than one more ally who soaks up some damage?

    -)Can't tank because I outdamage them and pull aggro? Are we talking about WoW or GW2?? From the wiki:


    -) damaging everyone who gets close to me via traps is no moot point since the traps rely on me standing in it to be effective. I can only stand in the traps and survive masses of enemies with the GS or a decent played sword (which I don't like that much because it's nearly impossible to use your dodge which gives you protection when traited). My traps alone are worthless, since enemies just pass through. If however I stand in there, use leapfinishers and dodge + evade + quickness, it's quite effective and even though it is very defensive, I do OK damage. Warrior would probably do superb damage, but won't stay alive very long. Guardian GS can blind nearby enemies only once every 15sec. which is bad imho. To play a guardian defensive I'd suggest hammer or mace-shield/focus.

    I see no point in arguing further, it seems I don't get your point and you don't get mine. I'd say we agree to disagree, I keep playing my ranger and have tons of fun with it and you play guardian, warrior, whatever.
    Time to explain it so a kindergartner can understand, GS being worse for Ranger than other classes HAS NOTHING to do with utilities. We're talking about the first 5skills on your skillbar which you can find on the leftside of said skillbar.

    You find blind not as good as an evade while evade is only for you, doesn't stack and can't be used reliably at all.

    You really suck at reading comprehension don't you? If you use healing spring to heal your team through "leap finishers" from your GS you're sacrificing self/pet healing

    10sec weakness on a 45sec recharge... great
    600range on a condition removal for your entire party... great
    3sec chill on 45sec recharge awesome vs bosses

    Revive fallen allies? you mean another utility skill to make useless crap a tad bit more useful?
    No pets can't tank and no they don't "soak" up dmg, pet's just take aoe dmg and die there hasn't been less dmg pushed out on team members.

    GW2 you see that tiny thing in between brackets [CITATION NEEDED] this means there's no verified data regarding this.
    Also nice of you to post that since
    1. That's you and your pet GS=melee
    2. You and your pet
    3. definatly not your pet
    4. toughness mhh not bears since they get vitality

    Yes it is a moot point since nothing makes traps only work in melee if you use GS, you simply fail to kite properly and keep them in with another weapon.
    Nobody cares about how you'd play guardian "defensively", we're talking about GS in comparison to other classes.

    Every point I've made you've tried to take down by looking at pets/utilities which simply doesn't fly since pet/utilities aren't bound to GS.

  17. #29477
    it seems you are the one who has problems with reading comprehension, nothing to say anymore - what you are doing is finding arguments for the sake of an argument. I'll let people decide for themselves after reading the last posts.

  18. #29478
    Really wish they would revamp the 1 skill on the Rangers one handed sword.

  19. #29479
    Any news about January update?

  20. #29480
    Quote Originally Posted by Black Rider View Post
    Any news about January update?
    Im guessing soon-ish. Sometime next week before January.

    Anyways, am i the only getting bombed with 10k files patches every day?

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