Guild Wars 2: The One Thread

[Meledelion]

You might as well just say 16/16 since - as I said above - you're just counting "anything that can kill a player" as a "one shot instant kill" mechanic. I mean seriously, Faerlina? Patchwerk? Grobbulus? Maexxna? None of those had some special "one shot kill" ability. Even messing up the dance on Heigan didn't one-shot people unless they got hit by multiple bursts at once.
On top of that, at some point you have to draw a line between "one shot instant kill" and "ok, you just totally borked up the encounter somehow, you're going to wipe".

I'm not counting anything that can kill a player, I'm counting every single attack that can kill a player.
Faerlina's poison volley is a oneshot mechanic.
Patchwerk's cleave is a oneshot mechanic.
Grobbulus' slime spray is a oneshot mechanic.

Sure but you can say exactly that for GW2 too. People think GL has lots of one-shot mechanics while he only has 1 in phase1. Mage crusher has a cleave OHK but simply strafing sideways will negate it completely (competent groups can even make bosses like this face one way all the time). But even though it's really easy to avoid, it's still a OHK mechanic.

Let's flip it to GW2 and throw out a random dungeon and we'll figure out for each path howmany fights have one-shot mechanics. If you're not going to count "cleave" as a one-shot it's basically 0.

The difference is you're so used to automatically negating the mechanics by attacking behind the boss and stacking that you completely forget that the mechanic is still there.

It's also the first (and easiest) raid of that content so it's normal that there are hardly any oneshot mechanics.

[Meledelion]

Er, no it isn't. Not at all.

Hateful Strike is not a cleave.

Again, no it's not. The real reason you didn't want it hitting people was that it would spawn all the slimes.

You tank those attacks with 18k hp and report back to me with the results...

[Meledelion]

Seeing as tanks in that fight have 15k HP (50%) and the same debuff applies to melee I'm quite sure that my numbers are in fact accurate. If you don't believe me here's a vid showing a tank with 15k HP http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUlliMso570.

(so yes Heigan does one-shot)

[Lane]

Another side to the discussion on "Comparing GW2 to Raids", would be the downed state and ability to restore someone back to life.

Well, downed state is the closest you're going to get to an 'in-combat res' in GW2. (Odds are no one's going to bother with you if you're dead-dead.) Some classes have abilities, like Illusion of Life, but that's usually contingent on killing something. I'm not sure how well that'd work in a raid setting (unless there's a lot of trash) except to possibly buy some time.

[Svifnymr]

Well, downed state is the closest you're going to get to an 'in-combat res' in GW2. (Odds are no one's going to bother with you if you're dead-dead.) Some classes have abilities, like Illusion of Life, but that's usually contingent on killing something. I'm not sure how well that'd work in a raid setting (unless there's a lot of trash) except to possibly buy some time.

More people than SHOULD, will rez someone dead-dead at encounters, but in wow now there's only 1-2 combat rez's per encounter also.

[draykorinee]

2) Sorry, you're still wrong. Stop being so stubborn.

Never gonna happen.

But don't get me wrong, I'm not saying GW2 would crank out a quality raid every month or whatnot. I'm just saying they could probably match some others pace (1 raid every 4months or thereabouts) if they were geared towards that. I'd also assert that they could probably get Raidfinder difficulty if they instanced things without a huge problem.

I think this was kind of where I wanted to head with my original point, it was never to indicate anet couldnt do frequent raid updates, it would just just slow output.

[Meledelion]

Never gonna happen.

Ofcourse not since he's wrong, check the video I linked earlier that's a TANK with 16k HP(halved and in current tier gear (which means you're actually out-gearing the encounter). I'm talking about a non tank having 18k HP (original) and he says my numbers are wrong...

If I get killed by a HB frenzy war using just his HB, that's called a OHK regardless of HB actually striking 9times. Same thing goes for shatter burst combo's or PW thieves or even backstab thieves (who at minimum attack 3times).

[Gray_Matter]

My problem with OHK mechanics is that they should only exist in HC (or the toughest) encounters. People will fail and making the whole group fail because some dimwit didn't press a button or stood in the wrong place is not a good idea. I am not saying that the fight should be just as easy if someone dies. Make it incrementally tougher but still doable. GW2 handles it nicely as people can res the afore mentioned dimwit. Not that I think they should have OHK mechanics in the first place. Take 10 average players and you will be lucky to get all 10 doing the right thing for a single fight 1 time out of 10. Even with simple things.

[draykorinee]

Ofcourse not since he's wrong, check the video I linked earlier that's a TANK with 16k HP(halved and in current tier gear (which means you're actually out-gearing the encounter). I'm talking about a non tank having 18k HP (original) and he says my numbers are wrong...

If I get killed by a HB frenzy war using just his HB, that's called a OHK regardless of HB actually striking 9times. Same thing goes for shatter burst combo's or PW thieves or even backstab thieves (who at minimum attack 3times).

Tbh the same could apply for bovine, both stubbornly arguing a point that most people have bypassed because its boring.

[Meledelion]

That's why I stopped. Not only is Mele completely wrong (not even CLOSE to the right numbers on most of the stuff, and he talks like someone that didn't actually do the encounters because he seems ignorant of the mechanics in general) the topic is just dumb and boring, plus I don't wanna sit here linking wowhead or something every other post. It's why I just deleted the other posts on the issue.

You again say I'm wrong yet I linked a video with proof that I'm not...

[Vizardlorde]

Tequatal shouldven been instanced in our server we get so many AFKers that the ppl who want to do it get sent to overflow and those that make it to the main map are out numbered by afkers making the encounter scaled up to the maximum number of people incredibly diffucult for the little crowd of non afk. My guild mates just guest to Blackgate when they wana down tequatl.

[WadeFish]

The funny part is that Tequatl - as I understand it - doesn't actually scale. He's at full strength whether you have a full zone of people or only 2 people, which is why people from smaller servers were upset about it. So yeah, kinda screws you over either way. =(

I never get to do Teq anymore. Nobody ever does it on FA anymore and if they do it isn't when I'm on, and if we do end up doing him there is usually only like 20-30 of us.

[Karizee]

I never get to do Teq anymore. Nobody ever does it on FA anymore and if they do it isn't when I'm on, and if we do end up doing him there is usually only like 20-30 of us.

I can highly recommend the Tequatl Terror Squad family of guilds if you are looking for Teq kills. 3500 strong and growing - a 3500 man raid team, it's kinda insane XD

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/foru...L-KILLING-TEQ/

I've been killing him every day at reset with these folks. We had 7 overflows running the event simultaneously yesterday with more players clamoring to get in.

[Lane]

My problem with OHK mechanics is that they should only exist in HC (or the toughest) encounters. People will fail and making the whole group fail because some dimwit didn't press a button or stood in the wrong place is not a good idea. I am not saying that the fight should be just as easy if someone dies. Make it incrementally tougher but still doable. GW2 handles it nicely as people can res the afore mentioned dimwit. Not that I think they should have OHK mechanics in the first place. Take 10 average players and you will be lucky to get all 10 doing the right thing for a single fight 1 time out of 10. Even with simple things.

Agreed with this too.

I never have been a fan of what essentially amounts to 'zero tolerance' in game mechanics. There's too much room for error that has absolutely nothing to do with player skill, latency being the biggest culprit.

[Meledelion]

snip

Same can be said for dungeons in GW in my opinion. People so often keep complaining that it's nearly all OHK mechanics while in reality there's very few real OHK mechanics, most are just cleaves which people are too stupid to strafe around and avoid them (while in raids people automatically attack a boss from the back).

I agree that most people use anything and everything they can to shift the blame to something they don't have control over (like RNG, Lag, bugs,...)

[Lane]

I haven't raided in a long time, not since Ulduar/Trial of the Champion (or whatever it was called). Generally I did not have any issues avoiding what needed to be avoided, although, I will say that the Hodir encounter in particular was a nightmare for me. Not sure what it was about that fight, but my frame rate dropped to about 5fps. I felt so bad for the healers because I swear I got hit with everything. I actually preferred to spec resto for that one so at least I could attempt to take care of my own fail.

It was one encounter out of many, but it happens.

I don't have much in the way of comparison in GW2, not if we're strictly talking about one-shots in raiding.

[Valeron]

last time I raided was the sunwell in burning crusade of wow

really got burnt out on it then and haven't had the desire since to ever raid again.

[Lane]

really got burnt out on it then and haven't had the desire since to ever raid again.

The people and the progression nights were really what killed it for me. I raided off and on from vanilla to Wrath and in all that time I was in one raiding guild that either 1) didn't rapidly deteriorate after becoming "hardcore" or 2) wasn't full of pricks. That one guild actually made raiding enjoyable because they were such a fun bunch of people to be around I didn't really care what we were doing. Unfortunately, I just don't have it in me to kiss a bunch more frogs to find another guild that doesn't suck.

And progression nights were just the stuff of nightmares.

[Lane]

Progression's fine if done right. This is just one example (of many): BWL, two weeks (4 hours a night) of attempts on Vael knowing we did not have the tanks to do him, but forced us to do it anyway as a "learning experience". Needless to say, I quit that guild after that, but following guilds weren't much better in terms of demanding everyone continue an encounter we didn't meet for some reason (gear, class composition, etc.) not to mention pushing everyone long past their patience and morale thresholds.

It just wasn't fun. That's another thing my last raiding guild was really good at, knowing when to stop.

[Gray_Matter]

The good news is that there's really very few fights that are "zero tolerance" in raiding MMOs though.

I am not sure about present raids but most of the WOW 4 raids were seriously intolerant. That doesn't necessarily mean that there is a one shot mechanic in place but rather they didn't allow for any level of failure which is just as bad for a normal mode fight. Normal mode fights should allow groups to make a mistake or two and still succeed. HC should be zero tolerant. One mistake by one person in a group shouldn't end up in a wipe which was often the case. OHK's just make it worse because it's often impossible to succeed with a player down because of enrage timers or burn phases.