Patch 4.1 on Live Servers this Week

[angelx7x]

You do realise that the articles explain to you that the "interns" have been in charge from mid Wrath ? From toc and onwards... the stuff you talk off as beeing terrible...

i love how you assume they're interns, when no mention is even made of interns, it could be developers lower in the ranks, that doesnt mean interns, it's ignorant people like you who take things way out of proportion and twist it to say what you want it to to make you feel better

---------- Post added 2011-04-25 at 03:17 PM ----------

Many of the people that built World of Warcraft are full time on that other team. Meaning they are on Titan team.

Gratz realising that just now.

it says many, not all, get a pair of eyes and stop being illiterate

[McNeil]

The only worthy thing in this patch is checking out ZG, since ZA is ultimately recycled, with the only thing changed is the last boss name and he still has the EXACT same quotes and tactics as Zul'jin... and why are the 5 other bosses still alive anyway? I remember see'ing the dead spirits of the loa God's in Zul'Drak. If they don't explain it, it'll be very lame

[Duster505]

i love how you assume they're interns, when no mention is even made of interns, it could be developers lower in the ranks, that doesnt mean interns, it's ignorant people like you who take things way out of proportion and twist it to say what you want it to to make you feel better

---------- Post added 2011-04-25 at 03:17 PM ----------



it says many, not all, get a pair of eyes and stop being illiterate

"people below them that were trained up by them to run World of Warcraft" = That sounds pretty much like interns to me... Trained ... to run.. (note - not to design).

Back to QQing arguments when ppl post links to what you asked for.

Not that BLizzard will be QQing seeing sub money for WOW pay for full time development of Titan starving WOW of any real design innovation . And few store mounts here and there ....

And yes.. it says Many - not few.

[angelx7x]

The only worthy thing in this patch is checking out ZG, since ZA is ultimately recycled, with the only thing changed is the last boss name and he still has the EXACT same quotes and tactics as Zul'jin... and why are the 5 other bosses still alive anyway? I remember see'ing the dead spirits of the loa God's in Zul'Drak. If they don't explain it, it'll be very lame

Zul'Drak =/= Zul'Aman just saying

---------- Post added 2011-04-25 at 03:25 PM ----------

"people below them that were trained up by them to run World of Warcraft" = That sounds pretty much like interns to me... Trained ... to run.. (note - not to design).

Back to QQing arguments when ppl post links to what you asked for.

Not that BLizzard will be QQing seeing sub money for WOW pay for full time development of Titan starving WOW of any real innovation. And few store mounts here and there ....

how does running an mmo not involve design? once more, get over it, i said it before, ignorant people like you need to stop reading between the lines when there's nothing between the lines to read

[Deleted]

Does anyone know if the the rise of the Zandalari epics DE into maelstrom crystals?

Yes they will be able to DE into Maelstrom crystals

[Duster505]

Zul'Drak =/= Zul'Aman just saying[COLOR="red"]

how does running an mmo not involve design? once more, get over it, i said it before, ignorant people like you need to stop reading between the lines when there's nothing between the lines to read

Right now Blizzard is DESIGNING Titan... No.. not running it.. designing it .. with their designers that designed WOW.

In the mean time they got ppl RUNNING the WOW game. Maybe you call Path of the Titan that never was and ZG recycled content to be a design....

Yes - try to tell yourself that =) Bet it makes you feel alot better paying sub for it =)

[Deleted]

"people below them that were trained up by them to run World of Warcraft" = That sounds pretty much like interns to me... Trained ... to run.. (note - not to design).

Back to QQing arguments when ppl post links to what you asked for.

Not that BLizzard will be QQing seeing sub money for WOW pay for full time development of Titan starving WOW of any real innovation. And few store mounts here and there ....

Registered just to have my 2 cents said.

First off - you're just plain wrong. You are simply straight up, wrong. Your understanding of raid progression is that people are to clear the next tier just to clear heroic modes from the earlier tier.. Why would you assume such a dumb thing? They are called HARD MODES, for a reason - because they are hard - Or you didn't manage to clear them and there of wanted a higher iLvL just to be able to "clear the progress" - is it too hard, is that what you saying?

As for the load of steaming pile of shit, which would be your "Oh all the good devs left the WoW team" - I've played since Vanilla - and the pure amount of ignorance, of sheer blindness to as of what you are given in 1 bloody patch - I mean, let alone that they DELAYED the Firelands patch just to fit YOU, the one PAYING, for THEIR game, AGREEING to their TERMS OF USE, implying that you are actually paying, for something you play - And to top that off, just to top that sheer, obvious trolling off, you throw in a rant about Store mounts. Guess what. They are NOT mandatory in, _ANY_ remote way to accomplish ANYTHING in WoW.

As the matter of fact is, you bought this - you payed for this - this is the complete and utter result of your money - or most likely your parents seeing how you act like a complete trolling kiddo - In the end, you are powerless. There is no but, nothing more to it - you are chasing straws that you cooked up, that you sought to justify what a "terrible" MMORPG WoW has become, when it has merely become better and filled with more and more content over the years - As for losing subs, who cares? Their costumer base is large enough to lose a thousand of your kind and STILL go far beyond in profit - compared to whatever pathetic thing you have ever achieved in your life.

[Duster505]

Registered just to have my 2 cents said.

First off - you're just plain wrong. You are simply straight up, wrong. Your understanding of raid progression is that people are to clear the next tier just to clear heroic modes from the earlier tier.. Why would you assume such a dumb thing? They are called HARD MODES, for a reason - because they are hard - Or you didn't manage to clear them and there of wanted a higher iLvL just to be able to "clear the progress" - is it too hard, is that what you saying?

As for the load of steaming pile of shit, which would be your "Oh all the good devs left the WoW team" - I've played since Vanilla - and the pure amount of ignorance, of sheer blindness to as of what you are given in 1 bloody patch - I mean, let alone that they DELAYED the Firelands patch just to fit YOU, the one PAYING, for THEIR game, AGREEING to their TERMS OF USE, implying that you are actually paying, for something you play - And to top that off, just to top that sheer, obvious trolling off, you throw in a rant about Store mounts. Guess what. They are NOT mandatory in, _ANY_ remote way to accomplish ANYTHING in WoW.

As the matter of fact is, you bought this - you payed for this - this is the complete and utter result of your money - or most likely your parents seeing how you act like a complete trolling kiddo - In the end, you are powerless. There is no but, nothing more to it - you are chasing straws that you cooked up, that you sought to justify what a "terrible" MMORPG WoW has become, when it has merely become better and filled with more and more content over the years - As for losing subs, who cares? Their costumer base is large enough to lose a thousand of your kind and STILL go far beyond in profit - compared to whatever pathetic thing you have ever achieved in your life.

This will give you an even better chance to beat those bosses that are blocking you now. We wouldn’t be surprised to see some guilds try the first few Firelands bosses one night, while using the next night to go back to get the head and chests from Nef and Cho’gall in order to complete their set bonuses, that is until acquiring new set bonuses becomes feasible.

This is a Quote form CG so dont blame me about the raid curve progress... http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/1...-raid-progress

I never said you should have to clear the tier above to go into heroics that are tier lower. It should be so that you still get benefits from doing heroics versison in lower tier - And you know what GC agrees ! sorry...
And about "hard modes" - Hard is never harder than the lvl and the grear you wear.

Here is the thing.. Im not paying for the game atm - In fact Im here trying to get other ppl to understand what exactly the money they are putting into WOW are going into. No - thats not going onto your characters in WOW - Its going into another MMO project - project that has nothing to do with you - your sub money - or the characters that you are creating in RPG mmo game. Fantastic news how a 12 milion sub based MMO game managed to treat their players right ?

[Crazypants]

"people below them that were trained up by them to run World of Warcraft" = That sounds pretty much like interns to me... Trained ... to run.. (note - not to design).

Back to QQing arguments when ppl post links to what you asked for.

Not that BLizzard will be QQing seeing sub money for WOW pay for full time development of Titan starving WOW of any real design innovation . And few store mounts here and there ....

And yes.. it says Many - not few.

The idiocy of your posts in this thread have actually provoked me into signing up.

You obviously have very little knowledge of the type of teams it takes to design and produce anything. As someone who has worked in the web industry, and dated a few individuals at different levels in the gaming industry, I'll help you out a little. Even in small projects, there are generally people in a position called a "Lead," basically, what they do, is manage several smaller teams, composed of artists, programmers, writers.. etc. In those teams, there is generally a lead of sorts, that helps to oversee the senior and junior developers. There is definitely a hierarchy of people, and to insinuate that any of them are to be called interns is a flat out insult.

Take a look at the scope and depth of material within WoW, it is highly reasonable to assume they have multiple teams assigned to different aspects of the game, each with their own hierarchy as explained above. It is reasonable to assume that a team lead, or senior developer, could have proven their skill and abilities to move up into a higher position, while others moved onto "Titan." To call a programmer who could have spent countless hours working on this game and received a promotion as his superiors moved onto a new project, an intern, shows you have very limited knowledge of how any corporate structure works.

----

About 4.1, I'm excited for it, as the guild I'm in is more casual, and with finals here, our raiding Cata content has basically stopped. This has allowed some of the older players to take the newer players on other fun things.. Like doing ICC achievements, Naxx, etc. Since the raiding has slowed down, there are people who are missing stuff in slots that can be filled in ZA/ZG that will make our raiding that much more easy when people are done with school. Not to mention the ability to have far better enchants through these 2 dungeons and with honor/justice maelstroms. I get that there are people and guilds out there who have cleared all the content and are stomping their feet for more, but from browsing many forums and looking at the servers I play on, the majority of the community isn't ready for a new tier of raids, and see ZA/ZG as buff to get them there.

As someone who has recently started playing, I am fond of this content delivery schedule. I saw someone a few pages back mention how there were 25 raid bosses available at one point. To me that seems as if the content would feel like much more of a chore, than a game.

[Myah]

But VP isn't there as the main route for raiders to gear their characters, it's there as a consolation prize if you don't get drops. 'VP in a week to gear my char' is 10900 VP - that's 156 10-man bosses. Do you not think that you might get a better drop than the T11 on one of your slots before you reach that? Or, you could just get very lucky with the drops and gear yourself from head to toe on one round of the 12 bosses (I'm assuming this is Normal you're talking about, because why they hell would you even be bothered with VP if you're going after Heroic bosses, right?).



I'm confused - do you crave boredom?

Maybe I didn't express myself properly, not just the VP limits that I don't like, but not being able to do more than one encounter each week on my main. That's one of the restrictions I was talking about. Doesn't matter if you get gear or VP, you still can each boss once a week.
Even if there are 12 bosses, you can't always pick which one you want to do. You gotta go through the whole BoT to get to last one, for example. And same will probably be with new upcoming raids.

And the 2 new heroics, lets face it, do it 7 times in one char is gonna be boring as hell, and for alts, ugh. Just 2 options lol

Yes, I do crave boredom. Kidding. My point is that getting gear is not what makes me bored. Not having something to do or not being able to do something I want (even if 5 times the same raid) is what bores me.

[Duster505]

The idiocy of your posts in this thread have actually provoked me into signing up.

You obviously have very little knowledge of the type of teams it takes to design and produce anything. As someone who has worked in the web industry, and dated a few individuals at different levels in the gaming industry, I'll help you out a little. Even in small projects, there are generally people in a position called a "Lead," basically, what they do, is manage several smaller teams, composed of artists, programmers, writers.. etc. In those teams, there is generally a lead of sorts, that helps to oversee the senior and junior developers. There is definitely a hierarchy of people, and to insinuate that any of them are to be called interns is a flat out insult.

Take a look at the scope and depth of material within WoW, it is highly reasonable to assume they have multiple teams assigned to different aspects of the game, each with their own hierarchy as explained above. It is reasonable to assume that a team lead, or senior developer, could have proven their skill and abilities to move up into a higher position, while others moved onto "Titan." To call a programmer who could have spent countless hours working on this game and received a promotion as his superiors moved onto a new project, an intern, shows you have very limited knowledge of how any corporate structure works.

----

About 4.1, I'm excited for it, as the guild I'm in is more casual, and with finals here, our raiding Cata content has basically stopped. This has allowed some of the older players to take the newer players on other fun things.. Like doing ICC achievements, Naxx, etc. Since the raiding has slowed down, there are people who are missing stuff in slots that can be filled in ZA/ZG that will make our raiding that much more easy when people are done with school. Not to mention the ability to have far better enchants through these 2 dungeons and with honor/justice maelstroms. I get that there are people and guilds out there who have cleared all the content and are stomping their feet for more, but from browsing many forums and looking at the servers I play on, the majority of the community isn't ready for a new tier of raids, and see ZA/ZG as buff to get them there.

As someone who has recently started playing, I am fond of this content delivery schedule. I saw someone a few pages back mention how there were 25 raid bosses available at one point. To me that seems as if the content would feel like much more of a chore, than a game.

Lol - yes you obviously know alot based on dating .. lol Interns is pretty much the right name for ppl that are "trained up to run the game"... thats not my words - that was BLizzard talking.

And also you recently started playing ... and you are telling ppl that have payed sub already for ZA and ZG how they are supposed to feel about a content patch beeing what they already payed a sub for few years ago ?

Get a clue what long term RPG development is about. Cause its not about sending out recycled content for the long term playerbase expecting them to pay for it second time around. ANd that is pretty much exactly the last straw that many see now with WOW. BLizzard doesn't care about their long term playerbase. Their main goal atm is to milk the cow with recyled content for the 12 year olds so they can develop next MMO for the sub money.

Hope next date you get will be able to tell you that ppl that play WOW care about their characters IN WOW - not in what BLizzard is doing with their sub money on another project that has nothing to do with progression or design of WOW.

[Sternrage]

@wapetufu I disagree. if people want to spend money for additional crap they should be able to. but on the flip side blizz should donote money from the star pony and this flyin lion to a good cause, like improving education in the us, or if they dont care about education donate to japan, or whatever country is in disarray this week.

[faerjan]

Lol - yes you obviously know alot based on dating .. lol Interns is pretty much the right name for ppl that are "trained up to run the game"... thats not my words - that was BLizzard talking.

Actually, thats not the right word at all. I'll give you a good example. I have several developers who work under me with many years of development experience. They have worked on multimillion dollar projects as well as several in-house development projects. Often, we have a team member who needs to go on maternity leave, or accepts a position in another organization. At that time, we will train developers from a different team to work on software and systems they haven't worked on before. While they do not have the same level of experience on the particular product they are training on, they have considerable experience in developing software. In addition, we don't promote people directly to "decision making" positions who are from other teams; a team member with experience in the area gets bumped up, and another developer from a different team (again, with considerable experience on that team) is "trained up" on the specific systems involved with their new team.

An intern is someone we hire for a summer position (3-6) to shuffle papers. There is a considerable gap between the two, and if I had to venture a guess, Blizzard follows a similar pattern. I'm confused whether you really don't know the difference since you haven't worked in a professional development setting (which is my guess) or there is a language barrier here.

In addition... you do realize that Blizzard doesn't funnel all it's money into a particular product, correct? Funds collected from sales of all titles end up being distributed between titles. I'm sure money from World of Warcraft subscriptions also funded Starcraft development, and Starcraft sales funded World of Warcraft expansion development or Titan development. Because they have decided to work on another title doesn't mean they aren't using the subs appropriately; for all we know, they could (and probably are) spending subscription money on many other titles currently under development and unannounced.

A good portion of the "negative" posts so far fall into two realms of thought; one, a marked lack of understanding into how game development works. Because some "senior" developers left a team doesn't mean that the team is now gutted. As someone said above, it's more than likely that design leads were shifted to Titan to help give their design experience to that team, and senior developers (these being still "A" team members, if you care to call it that) moved up to team lead positions and mentored newer developers. Second, a vocal minority of people who feel the need to cut down stuff they aren't interested in, while the rest of the player base is thrilled by it. It's unfortunate you aren't happy with the new heroics coming out, but a good portion of the player base is. I've played since Vanilla when playing a paladin was awful; I'm still psyched to see what Blizzard does with ZA/ZG. To claim things are worse now then they were then or how WOW is in a "nosedive" is fairly ridiculous, and clearly illustrates a complete lack of perspective on how things used to be. You aren't going to change any minds by screaming from the street corner about how Blizzard is wasting someone's money, especially when you don't even subscribe yourself; you just look like a raving lunatic.

[Sternrage]

ETA on 4.2 and the firelands: can't get here fast enough.
I like the changes but overall, lvling my rogue should now be even faster. and to the trolls that complain the game is being dumbed down, not everyone can have as much free time as you, some of us have to focus on school, social lives, girl/boyfriends, need I go on. just stfu and enjoy the patch, otherwise go spend your 15 bucks/20euros/whatever currency you use somewhere else!

[Contravene]

PTR 4.1 testing is finished

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/1...esting-is-over

[Freese]

Actually, thats not the right word at all. I'll give you a good example. I have several developers who work under me with many years of development experience. They have worked on multimillion dollar projects as well as several in-house development projects. Often, we have a team member who needs to go on maternity leave, or accepts a position in another organization. At that time, we will train developers from a different team to work on software and systems they haven't worked on before. While they do not have the same level of experience on the particular product they are training on, they have considerable experience in developing software. In addition, we don't promote people directly to "decision making" positions who are from other teams; a team member with experience in the area gets bumped up, and another developer from a different team (again, with considerable experience on that team) is "trained up" on the specific systems involved with their new team.

An intern is someone we hire for a summer position (3-6) to shuffle papers. There is a considerable gap between the two, and if I had to venture a guess, Blizzard follows a similar pattern. I'm confused whether you really don't know the difference since you haven't worked in a professional development setting (which is my guess) or there is a language barrier here.

In addition... you do realize that Blizzard doesn't funnel all it's money into a particular product, correct? Funds collected from sales of all titles end up being distributed between titles. I'm sure money from World of Warcraft subscriptions also funded Starcraft development, and Starcraft sales funded World of Warcraft expansion development or Titan development. Because they have decided to work on another title doesn't mean they aren't using the subs appropriately; for all we know, they could (and probably are) spending subscription money on many other titles currently under development and unannounced.

A good portion of the "negative" posts so far fall into two realms of thought; one, a marked lack of understanding into how game development works. Because some "senior" developers left a team doesn't mean that the team is now gutted. As someone said above, it's more than likely that design leads were shifted to Titan to help give their design experience to that team, and senior developers (these being still "A" team members, if you care to call it that) moved up to team lead positions and mentored newer developers. Second, a vocal minority of people who feel the need to cut down stuff they aren't interested in, while the rest of the player base is thrilled by it. It's unfortunate you aren't happy with the new heroics coming out, but a good portion of the player base is. I've played since Vanilla when playing a paladin was awful; I'm still psyched to see what Blizzard does with ZA/ZG. To claim things are worse now then they were then or how WOW is in a "nosedive" is fairly ridiculous, and clearly illustrates a complete lack of perspective on how things used to be. You aren't going to change any minds by screaming from the street corner about how Blizzard is wasting someone's money, especially when you don't even subscribe yourself; you just look like a raving lunatic.

Well put, sir/ma'am. Somehow, I don't even think that this voice of reason will silence the pedants who want to continue to believe that a game they no longer play is dying/boring because they no longer play it.

[Duster505]

Actually, thats not the right word at all. I'll give you a good example. I have several developers who work under me with many years of development experience. They have worked on multimillion dollar projects as well as several in-house development projects. Often, we have a team member who needs to go on maternity leave, or accepts a position in another organization. At that time, we will train developers from a different team to work on software and systems they haven't worked on before. While they do not have the same level of experience on the particular product they are training on, they have considerable experience in developing software. In addition, we don't promote people directly to "decision making" positions who are from other teams; a team member with experience in the area gets bumped up, and another developer from a different team (again, with considerable experience on that team) is "trained up" on the specific systems involved with their new team.

An intern is someone we hire for a summer position (3-6) to shuffle papers. There is a considerable gap between the two, and if I had to venture a guess, Blizzard follows a similar pattern. I'm confused whether you really don't know the difference and haven't worked in a professional development setting (which is my guess) or there is a language barrier here.

In addition... you do realize that Blizzard doesn't funnel all it's money into a particular product, correct? Funds collected from sales of all titles end up being distributed between titles. I'm sure money from World of Warcraft subscriptions also funded Starcraft development, and Starcraft sales funded World of Warcraft expansion development. Because they have decided to work on another title doesn't mean they aren't using the subs appropriately; for all we know, they could (and probably are) spending subscription money on many other titles currently under development and unannounced.

A good portion of the "negative" posts so far fall into two realms of thought; one, a marked lack of understanding into how game development works. Because some "senior" developers left a team doesn't mean that the team is now gutted. As someone said above, it's more than likely that design leads left, and senior developers (these being still "A" team members, if you care to call it that) moved up to team lead positions and mentored younger developers. Second, a vocal minority of people who feel the need to cut down stuff they aren't interested in, while the rest of the player base is thrilled by it. It's unfortunate you aren't happy with the new heroics coming out, but a good portion of the player base is. I've played since Vanilla when playing a paladin was awful; I'm still psyched to see what Blizzard does with ZA/ZG. To claim things are worse now then they were then or how WOW is in a "nosedive" is fairly ridiculous, and clearly illustrates a complete lack of perspective on how things used to be. You aren't going to change any minds by screaming from the street corner about how Blizzard is wasting someone's money, especially when you don't even subscribe yourself; you just look like a raving lunatic.

Well - Its BLizzard talking about "training" Maybe explain to the PR Titan team thats not the right word ?

What ppl are realising now - and it became very aparent with 4.1 - is that the focus from BLizzard has turned away from WOW into the new project. You might disagree and claim that some ppl are pshyched about recycled ZG and ZA instances. I dont think you will find alot of long term subs that agree with you.

WOW is taking a nosedive in terms of Innovative game design. Archeology is sort of proof of that. Why ? Where is Path of the Titans ?
I dont start crying when someone ends their posts with namecallings. It just puts their post into right perspective that their goal is just to talk down a "raving lunatic" - that desides to call interns.. interns =)

[Freese]

Here is the thing.. Im not paying for the game atm - In fact Im here trying to get other ppl to understand what exactly the money they are putting into WOW are going into. No - thats not going onto your characters in WOW - Its going into another MMO project - project that has nothing to do with you - your sub money - or the characters that you are creating in RPG mmo game. Fantastic news how a 12 milion sub based MMO game managed to treat their players right ?

So wait, you're telling me that a company uses its earnings to fund other projectss? THIS IS MADNESS!!! Blizzard has NO RIGHT to use MY hard earned money to pay for something else that they are creating. They should put EVERY DAMN cent back into the game that I pay for.

(Sarcasm, by the way).

[Rankin]

WOW is taking a nosedive in terms of Innovative game design. Archeology is sort of proof of that. Why ? Where is Path of the Titans ?

Right. Because there has never been any concept that Blizzard wanted to put into the game that didn't make it past beta.

[Freese]

Well - Its BLizzard talking about "training" Maybe explain to the PR Titan team thats not the right word ?

What ppl are realising now - and it became very aparent with 4.1 - is that the focus from BLizzard has turned away from WOW into the new project. You might disagree and claim that some ppl are pshyched about recycled ZG and ZA instances. I dont think you will find alot of long term subs that agree with you.

WOW is taking a nosedive in terms of Innovative game design. Archeology is sort of proof of that. Why ? Where is Path of the Titans ?
I dont start crying when someone ends their posts with namecallings. It just puts their post into right perspective that their goal is just to talk down a "raving lunatic" - that desides to call interns.. interns =)

What I've realized now is that Cataclysm is more fun than any expansion I've played, and my account has been active since March 2, 2005. I'm glad that Blizzard replaced the people who thought that five minute paladin buffs were a good idea, that every class with a healing tree should heal, that Princess HuHu should require entire forty man guilds to farm Maraudon for level 50 nature resist gear, that Dwarf priests should be the only race of priests with fear ward and then design several encounters that needed the fear ward buff, that having fourty people complete attunement quests was a good idea, that Shaman loot dropped for Alliance guilds and paladin loot for Horde guilds, that you couldn't shift click on the auction house, and that there should be a cap on the number of debuffs on a boss.

Yea, I would say that WoW has totally taken a nose dive since then