The almighty Satchel question

[Resentful]

Satchels and additional incentives worked to get people to not abandon Occulus in WotLK. If they shorten dps queues to 20 minutes, it certainly helps. Sure, somebody will always demand instant queues like tanks have - but that is just the thing.

Blizzard is too professional to point out the obvious, wich is: "If you do not agree with how the LFD works - you can still assemble groups the old fashion way as people did in Classic and TBC...expansions that seem to hold so many fond memeories with so many: assemble them in /g, /1, /2 or /friendlist"

Sounds like a bad time!

[Lleonn]

i took a break from wow 4 weeks ago, but in my oppinion this is made for dps so they dont have to wait for long queues since there's going to be way more tank/healers for heroics now just for the satchel

[Eazy]

I hope there in satchel healers and tank can find Invincible, Amani War Bear, Ashes of Al'ar, 372 iLevel items(epic heroic) and maelstrom crystals(at least 5 per bag).

[Deleted]

When I first heard about this I yelled that no matter what incentive I would still not run heroics with randoms.

I decided to try it out though - and in the past week I ran multiply heroics as a healer; and even though it did not went smooth 24/7 it went a lot better then expected. I will certainly queue up with both my healer and my tank for heroics again!

[rabbimojo]

Oh don't get me wrong I know they aren't necessary or an advantage, but the one thing I like about WoW is we are all equal (no matter what the elitests/scrubs/pvp'ers/casuals/baddies/moon people say to one another) We all have access to everything in game, if we so choose that path.

However while we are able to roll new toons to fill a tanking need or healer need, thats alot of time/energy spent just to get the chance of rewards that hybrids can obtain way more easily.Not to mention the fact maybe you are only interested in having one character, maybe it's all you have time/energy to play.

It just seems unfair to a degree that one part of the player base is literally being excluded from these rewards.

But I am all for giving it a go and seeing how it works, I am eternally hopeful that it does work, but it doesn't stop me for feeling bad for those that only enjoy playing as DPS.

The rewards are all accessible to any character. Nothing (that I've heard) contained in the satchels is anything you can't get running old instances, or just off the AH. The odds are allegedly the same as if you were running those old instances.

The fact of the matter is, attempting to equalize the queue times will require that something gives. In this case, Blizz felt it best to provide some incentive. There are other solutions, some of which may be better, but I'm positive that nobody in this community can state with any certainty what the best solution would be, or even how good any given solution would ultimately be. It's complicated.

If all you want to play is one character, and that's all the time/energy you have to play, this benefits you. It benefits everyone. There's no reason to feel bad for purists.

[Cardolan]

Oh don't get me wrong I know they aren't necessary or an advantage, but the one thing I like about WoW is we are all equal (no matter what the elitests/scrubs/pvp'ers/casuals/baddies/moon people say to one another) We all have access to everything in game, if we so choose that path.

The satchel doesn't provide anything that can't be gained elsewhere, though, so everybody does have access to the items. This just provides an additional means to gain those items to some, which while perhaps not entirely fair is probably necessary to keep people wanting to do the 5 man instances.

[Lord Blackmore]

I don't care if healers or tanks get a bag, as long as queue times are shorter.

"almighty satchel" is pretty funny, though. It got a chuckle out of me.

[rabbimojo]

i no longer play wow, and when i did i was a paladin tank.(look up Svenok on the Caelestrasz server).
my earlier comment was only to show, what i consider it's biggest flaw.
tanks and healers will look at the lfg screen, to find out who gets a satchel if they stay and complete an instance.
when the status quo is at the right level and no satchel is being awarded, dps will struggle to get a tank or healer to do the instance with them.

why am i reading and commenting about a game i no longer play?
because i still like to see what is happening to a game that i once loved to play, also, i enjoy the mmo-champion forums.
thanks for reading.

-If tanks look and don't see it, that means there's a lack of healers or DPS (likely healers). If those tanks wait, the queue is not impacted.
-If healers look and don't see it, that means there's a lack of tanks or DPS (likely tanks). If those healers wait, the queue is not impacted.
-If people are choosing to wait, then that means when it does show that they're in demand, that demand will be filled more quickly (because there'll be a pool of players waiting to satisfy the demand)

In no scenario that I can see does this system create a worse "struggle" for DPS.

[FoShizzleMyGrizzle]

DPS queues will still be s*ht long cus pps are slow.

[Deleted]

when the status quo is at the right level and no satchel is being awarded, dps will struggle to get a tank or healer to do the instance with them.

When the scales are balanced, the ques will be damn near instant for any spec.

[rabbimojo]

When I first heard about this I yelled that no matter what incentive I would still not run heroics with randoms.

I decided to try it out though - and in the past week I ran multiply heroics as a healer; and even though it did not went smooth 24/7 it went a lot better then expected. I will certainly queue up with both my healer and my tank for heroics again!

I think that's part of the point of this whole thing. A lot of people pugged when people were first hitting 85 and found it pretty unbearable. Many players don't learn quickly, many players were undergeared, etc. Lots of bad things. So, a lot of people vowed to never PUG, and just run with guildies.

Nowdays, in spite of those skilled/geared players who left the LFD queues "for good", the whole experience has improved dramatically. People have more gear, people know the fights, some of the fights have been retuned/fixed/nerfed, etc. In general, pugging is easier.

So, fast forward to next Tuesday, Blizz provides this new incentive thing and gets some of those people to come back to give it a shot. Some of them find it's a lot easier than they expected, and the new incentives make it that much sweeter. So, a number of skilled/geared people come back to the LFD queues, making it even easier all around... etc. etc.

It could work out remarkably well, or it could fizzle. Personally, I'll do what queuing I can, because I'd like to have some of those mounts, and I like to keep my rewards-per-unit-time density high. ;P

[Deleted]

Community of DPS: WHAAAAAAAA I want my dungeon Q to be SUPER FAST

DPS: WTF WHY DO THEY GET THE BAG AND NOT US WTF MAN QQ THEY CAN'T DO THAT SHIT WITHOUT US

Just like there must be a LK there also must be QQ (it seems also a camelhorder but that aside).
People are never statisfied with what they got and like the saying: "it's always greener on the other side of the fence".
Well i would say GL dps, take a step on the other side and if you dont like it get the .... out.

I wonder how many utter horrible healers and tanks will arrise..... (lucky i never pug )

[Svenok]

in reply to Ostjaevel who said "When the scales are balanced, the ques will be damn near instant for any spec."

when the scales are balanced, the tanks and healers won't want to do the instances knowing there is no satchel at the end of it.

[schippie]

Its quite simple (we dont know now if it will work but lets assume it does for a sec):

- Shorter quotes for dps and a reward for tanks/healers.
or
- Nothing changes and you are stuck with 30+ min quotes.

In the end dps seem to always QQ if they dont get what the healers or tanks have. Its only a choise now for the dps what they want more a satchel with some stuff that you could get already or long quote times.

[Svenok]

in response to ostjaevel who said "When the scales are balanced, the ques will be damn near instant for any spec."

i believe that when the scales are balanced, the tanks and healers will see no satchel for their run, and bail on the group.
in my opinion the satchel is a bad idea, it won't bring about the desired result, except dps, will be having to put up with wipefests as terribad tanks and hopeless healers try to get the bag.
blizzard should make the bag invisible in the lfg interface, so that tanks and healers don't know if they will get 1.
leaving the onus on them to decide if a run will be beneficial to them or not.
for myself, i won't return to the game untill they make it fun for me again..i don't see blizzard doing that, do you?

[Deleted]

I think that's part of the point of this whole thing. A lot of people pugged when people were first hitting 85 and found it pretty unbearable. Many players don't learn quickly, many players were undergeared, etc. Lots of bad things. So, a lot of people vowed to never PUG, and just run with guildies.

Nowdays, in spite of those skilled/geared players who left the LFD queues "for good", the whole experience has improved dramatically. People have more gear, people know the fights, some of the fights have been retuned/fixed/nerfed, etc. In general, pugging is easier.

So, fast forward to next Tuesday, Blizz provides this new incentive thing and gets some of those people to come back to give it a shot. Some of them find it's a lot easier than they expected, and the new incentives make it that much sweeter. So, a number of skilled/geared people come back to the LFD queues, making it even easier all around... etc. etc.

It could work out remarkably well, or it could fizzle. Personally, I'll do what queuing I can, because I'd like to have some of those mounts, and I like to keep my rewards-per-unit-time density high. ;P

Also those people who are slow in learning the fights or who have just levelled will now get experienced players tanks/healers who they can watch and learn off. Thus making the PUG way easier.

---------- Post added 2011-04-25 at 11:57 AM ----------

in response to ostjaevel who said "When the scales are balanced, the ques will be damn near instant for any spec."

i believe that when the scales are balanced, the tanks and healers will see no satchel for their run, and bail on the group.
in my opinion the satchel is a bad idea, it won't bring about the desired result, except dps, will be having to put up with wipefests as terribad tanks and hopeless healers try to get the bag.
blizzard should make the bag invisible in the lfg interface, so that tanks and healers don't know if they will get 1.
leaving the onus on them to decide if a run will be beneficial to them or not.
for myself, i won't return to the game untill they make it fun for me again..i don't see blizzard doing that, do you?

When the scales are balanced it will not matter if tanks/healers queue because DPS will all ready have shorter queue times, so the satchel will have worked. When the scales become unbalanced again and queue times go up then tanks/healers will queue because they have the satchel drop thus making queues shorter again.

Its win win for all concerned.

[Strafer]

I can see this happening; healers that queue up as tanks just to get the satchel of freebies.

[Deleted]

I can see this happening; healers that queue up as tanks just to get the satchel of freebies.

you don't get the satchel just for entering the queue, you only get it when the instance is complete. So if you queue as a tank you best be able to tank it.

[Beno113]

Community of DPS: WHAAAAAAAA I want my dungeon Q to be SUPER FAST ((
Blizzard: Alright bob what's your idea on this?
Bob guy who works for blizzard: Kay how about we make a incentive for the healers and the tanks? you see they get this SUPER COOL BAG!
Blizzard: I'm listening
Bob guy who works for blizzard: The bag will contain rare stuff...!
Blizzard: Good idea Bob I'm promoting you!
---4.1 comes out----
DPS: WTF WHY DO THEY GET THE BAG AND NOT US WTF MAN QQ THEY CAN'T DO THAT SHIT WITHOUT US
Blizzard: ...Bob you're demoted
Bob guy who works for blizzard: ...

For fucks sake Bob ...

[Deleted]

Probably yes, unless people want it so much that they start to queue as tanks and healers all the time.

some won't queue when there is no CtA for them