If Frost Mages are Overpowered....

[Jaxi]

Frost mages do hit like a wet fish. A wet fish that has been frozen and has a rocket pack strapped to it's ass.

[Antueater]

We can agree that being OP in low-skilled enviroment is not a disadvantage for a mage yes ? And if you look at the charts, you can see that no other pure dps class is represented as much as mage in middle/high-skilled enviroment. I just don't understand what is the reason they are getting buffed, when other classes that do worse are apparently fine. Should every other team have mage, is that the level of class representation Blizz is shooting for ?

Im pretty sure, that mage is not the only "OP" class in low-skilled environment. Heck, I am so hardcore and say EVERY class in low-skilled environment is "OP". It just depends who sucks more/less. And I dont give a sh..eet of paper about charts. And being represented a lot and actually are doing quite good as a pure dps class is a huge difference. Even if mages would be represented in 79% of all teams, but that teams lose every single game and the rest 21% with no mages would hit like a flaming truck out of control... Would mages be still OP? Your logic says yes. Even further, if you go to arenastats.com, choose Rating: 2600 and have a look at Top Comps by Win % (pls, for the love of all pandas out there, not by Population!) , where are your over-representative OP mages? I seriously hope, you dont start a Warlocks and Shamans are OP thread at the respective forums...

[Deleted]

Take off that PvE gear and try again. Oh, and my Shatters can do around 80-100k on a target dummy, but damn all those teams I see running around with those on 'em.

What? Are you proving me right or being sarcastic. I don't even...

[Vancha]

We...did...read my post.

I take a while to post. You hadn't said that when I typed what I said.

Yes okay, a shared DR on CoC and Shattered Barrier. Lets add an additional .5sec CD to frost nova and make Cone of Cold only slow by 59% while we're at it?

[Swizzle]

I take a while to post. You hadn't said that when I typed what I said.

Yes okay, a shared DR on CoC and Shattered Barrier. Lets add an additional .5sec CD to frost nova and make Cone of Cold only slow by 59% while we're at it?

It removes 1 root, lowers the damage done while being focused, AND forces us to give up a glyph slot. Those are significant changes, but sure, let's just ignore everything and focus only on....fuck it

[Dyrtnap]

These kinds of threads kill me. Mages have good synergy with multiple setups and other classes because of the control they bring not their damage. That's a large part of the representation numbers people throw around. If your team has decent dispels and any skill a Mage DOES NOT DO OP damage.

Mages took almost as many nerfs as buffs this patch. And you guys know the IL spam problem people complain about? Well in some ways that just got gutted because of the FoF changes. You realize 1 melee can feed a Mage FoF procs all day long. This change cuts down on the number of IL's any quasi competent Mage will use due to the low overall damage.

You guys hit like wet fish with your 60k-70k shatter combos?

How much Res do you have? Maybe 45k on a geared out player. KFC and LSD 2.0 yes they put out that kind of burst if a mage alone could do that any other class could create a completely faceroll team similar to the afore mentioned comps and they really would be in 50% of teams like people think.

yes but one class should not have a counter for all other classes if its rock, paper, scissors.

Mages have plenty of counters. Enh Shaman, UH DK's, Hunters with an idea of how to play and Spriest's there's more that come to a 50/50 break with mages when skill is equal. People hate on other classes because they follow the crowd after they get beat and blame their suck on an OP class instead of just being a mature person and going hey I fail right now lets get better.

Also I don't play a mage or have one on my team so not biased just understand game mechanics and have enough high lvl XP to know the truth about most classes.

[Tyraeus]

(50/600)x100= 8.33%

Failing to see the problem.

Assuming equal participation between all specs, that should be 3.3%.

[Swizzle]

What? Are you proving me right or being sarcastic. I don't even...

Nah, I was being pretty dismissive of your comment since it's a bunch of drivel, but I do in fact have very high shatter combos on training dummies, but I do get beaten when they decide to fight back.

---------- Post added 2011-04-26 at 03:45 PM ----------

Assuming equal participation between all specs, that should be 3.3%.

No, it should be 10% since they balance CLASSES not SPECS.

[Contravene]

From melee to melee
Frost Mages aren't OP but they are hard to beat so why don't you guys recruit one to your guild and ask him for help? All I hear when you say they are OP is all your cooldowns were blown, trinkets were used and you got owned cuz you ran TOWARD the mage. I am not likely to go chasing after a mage with no attack plan. What is funny though is melee wants to go running in to mirror images, spells getting stolen off them, mage is blinking out and you want to win..

Here it is dirty and cold.. Mages take a lot of work to beat, planning and all my cooldowns I can see why you would say they are OP so you don't have to deal with them anymore but they aren't OP. Blizzard knows they aren't either because when I get control of the situation they don't have an out after that they are just dead.. From a Ret Paladin too.. Spell steal might need to be reigned in some though and unlimited sheep is dumb.

[Ashareth]

Then why did the class/spec get buffs these patch?

Reason why? Because frost mages are no where near being overpowered. Frost mages (unless incredibly decked out in half-pve gear with pve trinkets all popped) hit like wet fish against pretty much every single class and ALL the control we have is null against any arena teams that have a class that can dispell on it's team that...you know...actually uses dispells.

Bad player vs Bad player = Mage usually wins. Good player vs Good player = Mage pretty much always loses. < This is the exact reason you have so many people crying about mages - THEYRE BAD!. Don't know about you but I don't think I've ever seen anyone highly rated ever complain about mages this entire expansion. There is a reason for it, it is because this game should pretty much be called World of MeleeCleavecraft.

And it's why RMP is the single most played comp above 2.2k in arena, with twice the numbers of the second most played comp right ?
Because Mages Rogues and Priests are "balanced".

They are buffed because Blizz's people always buffs mages if anything come close to beat them even 2v1 (last time they nerfed warriors in Wrath it was because if a mage went 1v2 vs a War and Hunter he couldn't win, from GC's blue post....), like they buff Prot Wars through the roof (or nerf the others to the ground) everytime they aren't making more than half the raid MT.

There is more than probably a dev playing Mage in arena responsible for the design.

[Swizzle]

And it's why RMP is the single most played comp above 2.2k in arena, with twice the numbers of the second most played comp right ?
Because Mages Rogues and Priests are "balanced".

It's actually because those players have been playing together since S1 and...ah fuck it

[Deleted]

I will kill myself if I see yet another frostmageqqwhatever thread.

[Deleted]

I've been playing some 2s with a Frost Mage friend, a very good mage, on my Holydin alt just to hit cap each week, and it is pretty obvious that FMage doesn't have the damage output, while playing a balanced game (i.e defensive play too, sheeps, deeps, kiting and counters) to take down someone in a mid-to-high rated team.

Obviously, the odd low rated team pops up, and they're crunched in no time, but that is due to inefficient countering on their part, but with little assistance from me, being a somewhat useless offensive healing class, a team knowing the deal is very tough to even get close to taking down.

[Omegasupreme]

I was talking about top 200, not about 2k+ rating and even in the link you posted mages are the most popular pure dps class ... get your facts straight. Healers will be more popular than any dps class, because they are required for most of the comps, pointless to compare dps class representation to dps/healer class representation.

Warriors are not healers IIRC. And before you make any prot argument, for the sake of arena they are a pure dps class, so right back @ ya mate

[Antueater]

I will kill myself if I see yet another frostmageqqwhatever thread.

We should stop convincing all the QQ-Haters that mages have their strengths but also their weaknesses. In fact, we should just lean back and admit that they are 100% right with what they say. You should see how fast those frostmageQQthreads dissappear.

[Swizzle]

We should stop convincing all the QQ-Haters that mages have their strengths but also their weaknesses. In fact, we should just lean back and admit that they are 100% right with what they say. You should see how fast those frostmageQQthreads dissappear.

Or you just follow my lead when I say:

[Pantelija]

I like the amount of people defending their op class

Wotlk - Beast Cleave beated RMP on tournament > 2 weeks later Beast Cleave nerfed

Cata beta - RMP team gets huge buffs

Cata - Kung Fu Cleave beats RMP > Kung Fu Cleave gets nerfed in 4.0.6 while RMP buffed

And seriously who believes the crap statement said by devs that mages suck at high end pvp but "seem" OP vs noobs ...

People living in denial >.>

[Antueater]

Or you just follow my lead when I say:

Accepted. Next Stop: Moon. (Protip: Pack a Pullover or two.. its a bit cold there. Maybe a bit FROSTy...)

[Swizzle]

I like the amount of people defending their op class

Wotlk - Beast Cleave beated RMP on tournament > 2 weeks later Beast Cleave nerfed

Cata beta - RMP team gets huge buffs

Cata - Kung Fu Cleave beats RMP > Kung Fu Cleave gets nerfed in 4.0.6 while RMP buffed

And seriously who believes the crap statement said by devs that mages suck at high end pvp but "seem" OP vs noobs ...

People living in denial >.>

Yes, yes you are. Beast Cleave didn't get nerfed because it beat RMP, it got nerfed because it was the most brainless comp to ever see the light of day and beat EVERYONE. CC Immunity? Check. Bloodlust? Check. No CC? Check. Mash buttons until something dies with a red pet and lusted wolves? Check.

[Vancha]

It removes 1 root, lowers the damage done while being focused, AND forces us to give up a glyph slot. Those are significant changes, but sure, let's just ignore everything and focus only on....fuck it

Oh come on Swizzle, wakey wakey. Only one of the changes goes anywhere near fixing the problem that gives mages their see-saw balancing issues. I don't give a crap about frost's misaimed nerfs...they need what's broken them to be fixed.