10N Cho'gall Help

[Chaosbane]

Hello, I'm the guild leader of a small relatively social 10 man guild and we got started late to raiding this expansion. Long time reader, first time poster so bear with me!

The problems, Our dps seems to be to low in general, Venum is me, I had to switch from my geared elemental shaman to a hunter because of the mechanics of the fight, and am quite undergeared. But our fire mage only every does about 10k dps in full epics, and he can't interrupt well at all which is partially bringing us down. I've seen on here that the suggested dps is ~90k and we are well off that at ~72k.

Our raid comp (avg dps to the side)
Fire mage (~11k)
Frost mage (~13k) He is frost to make sure the adds never get close
SV hunter (~12.5k) <---- me in blues on this char
Rogue 1 (15k)
Rogue 2 (13.5k) <---- This is our add interrupter so her dps drops by about 4k due to movement

Prot paladin
Blood DK

Resto Druid
Holy Paladin
Holy Priest <---- Typically we have another holy paladin in this slot


Our rogues are by far and away our 2 strongest dps in general, but we have to have rogue 2 on the add for both interrupts, and because we are missing the fester blood by ~3 seconds. The other thing we "could" try is to only 2 heal it, but even now the tanks will randomly die, and none of our healers really have a strong dps (boomkin is about 10k). In phase 1 we are fine, before the 5th add spawns we're pushing him into P2, it's in P2 where things fall apart, last night we had 6+ wipes below 12% and that really seems to be our wall. The tentacles aren't getting interrupt fast enough/killed fast enough and we only have about 2 seconds of dps on cho'gall in between. We've tried all the strats, against the wall, in the middle, following one dps player on stalks, splitting the raid up between stalks, all of it. They just don't seem to die fast enough. Our best attempt we left the hunter on cho'gall and the rest of the dps on the tentacles, and it seemed to slightly improve the fight. I know we have some class stacking issues, but we can't seem to find decent players in the other classes.

Here are the logs for last night, there are several attempts with some sloppy mistakes by individuals like getting hit by crashes, or missing depravity interrupt but in general we can push P2 easily with everyone under 20 corruption 90% of the time. Also, on good attempts we push into P2 with our healers at 70% mana, but they are ooming before the 4th set of stalks.

WoL /reports/8tak5qpmj067u4qc/sum/damageDone/?enc=bosses&boss=43324


What I need to know, is it a gear issue, dps issue, healing issue, or all the above? Should we learn to two heal it no matter what, even if our healers are at 25% mana in P2?
Any and all help is appreciated

[Nicola]

frostmage is lol, tell him to respec fire, more aoe on adds is gd.
the fire mage is even a bigger joke, 11k is just really really bad.

this is a heavy range favored fight and well, the ranged is just underperforming...

[Jelli]

I read over your post twice, I might be failing at reading today, but I see no mention of whether or not you are hitting enrage. Is this the issue you are trying to address or are you getting stuck at a certain a certain percentage before the enrages and wiping? Are your dps trying to burn Cho'gall in phase 3 rather than focusing on stalks?

Edit: also what butterzz said, but I figured that was pretty obvious as you answered that question by posting their dps. 11k as a fire mage? Really?

[Raht]

I loled @ rogue interruptor losing 4k DPS from movement.

I put together a pug yesterday where our lowest DPS was 14.5k and our highest being tied for about 17.5k. A pug.

[Deleted]

I am an Arms Warrior and doing 15k DPS on cho'gall overall. So the only tip I can give you is let your raiders step up there game.

[Chaosbane]

Butterzz, The mage is frost because we were having problems slowing adds when i was elemental, He will be fire for the next set of attempts. As to our ranged under performing, there is only so much I can do about my gear (the hunter in blues) Should we sit the fire mage for a pug and pray for the best?

Jelli, we are getting to the point where we will be hitting the enrage timer right about when he dies (which from what i understand is "normal" for first kills on him) we never went below 6% on him, and our dps is burning stalks but they dont' seem to be going down fast enough in general, though i'm not sure why.

---------- Post added 2011-04-26 at 03:07 PM ----------

Raht, she has to step from the boss over to the add for the interrupts then back to cho'gall when the add dies, on a tank and spank she is 22k+, on a movement fight she is still typically 18k+, so yes, she is losing that much dps. Also I'm sorry if you got the impression we are the lolz best playerz everz, i never said that, nor inferred it. I'm happy you can put together good pugs

[Gladiator2009]

What was the mechanic that made you switch to your hunter over an elemental shaman?

An elemental shaman can do the add interrupts on the big mobs, as well as slowing the small blobs with earthbind traps. Also having a knockback in a pinch is fantastic. And come 4.1 with the fire nova change, the add damage by an elemental shaman is going to be amazing. That would free up the rogue who is one of your stronger dps.

[Kavoo]

As a fellow hunter, I should say you should be doing the slimes work, just let ur mage roll w/e does more dps.

[Hokuto]

Tell the resto druid to go boom. It's fine if he can't do awesome dps, one extra dps means you'll have 3 adds on P1 and the whole fight will go faster, plus more dps on the tentacles for P2. Between fungal growth and typhoon (tell the druid to not skip these) you'll have a much easier time with the adds, you can tell the frost mage to stay fire and maybe you can even go back to your shaman - that'd free your rogue from interrupt duty, so you can leave both on Cho'gall full time. More dps overall.

On P2 scatter the dps to handle the adds, focusing them down means the other 5 (?) are channeling their debuff on someone. Everyone attack and interrupt their own, that includes both of your tanks - their dps on the adds isn't important, the interrupts are.

And the fire mage in full epics doing 10k seriously needs to pick it up.

[Jeffari]

As a SV hunter your traps should be enough to hold them in place, the frost mage is just a waste of a spot. I personally stay MM spec for the fight and I can maintain at least 17k between switching. I never switch on the first set as only like 3 spawn but after that between my fire mage, moonkin and myself, adds generally die right away. THE only time things get messy is when either the moonkin or I get mind controlled as the adds are spawning.

I also heal a 5/13 group and we 2 heal cho'gal on normal mode with easy. Needless to say our dps do 20k+ I usually never have mana issues if I play right. The most important thing is interrupt the mind controls and switch to the ****ing adds in phase 3 right away and interrupt them.

[Chaosbane]

Without traps it just seemed like the range on earthbind wasn't wide enough, nor with the pulses did the adds stay in it's range long enough to be worthwhile. However it works out with the ele shaman, adds were getting to the raid, with a hunter we've almost never had one get close, not sure if that's an artifact of the traps being "better" at slowing because of the lack of pulses or what

[Raht]

[/COLOR]Raht, she has to step from the boss over to the add for the interrupts then back to cho'gall when the add dies, on a tank and spank she is 22k+, on a movement fight she is still typically 18k+, so yes, she is losing that much dps. Also I'm sorry if you got the impression we are the lolz best playerz everz, i never said that, nor inferred it. I'm happy you can put together good pugs

Funny, since I'm an enhance shaman and that's my job and I lose maybe 2k from that alone.

But seriously, like everyone else said, your DPS are flat out mediocre. I never got the impression that you were the "lolz best playerz everz" because you're far from it. Tell your raid to try looking up their class.

[Kavoo]

what

In phase 1 we are fine, before the 5th add spawns we're pushing

you guys should do more dps, maybe cutting 1~2 ads in the 1st phase

[Deleted]

We are using 2 fire mages and 1 hunter in our setup, its plenty of slowing for the slimes, frost trap + dual blastwaves is more than fine,

We are pulling chogall to the middle of the room when he is bout 27%, burn him to 25% and having range on left stalkers, melee on right, yet to have any issues doing that, ive seen some guilds having chogal for p2 on the throne as the stalkers spawn very close to each other for easy AoE.

But overall it sounds like you suffer from some very bad performance with your dps players, make the frost mage go fire and you should see a huge increase doing slimes, 10k fire mage in full 359 = bad for sure

[Lilyania]

Both tanks can interrupt, you don't need to have BOTH rogues on the add. My 10 man guild has the Blood DK tank adds, using strangulate/mind freeze on 1st cast, and I kick 2nd cast. Also, we burn the boss as the 4th add comes out because as soon as P2 starts, all adds go away regardless. (meaning we kill first 3 adds, 4th despawns)

For adds it's usually Range DPS and I on add, keeping the other melee on the boss (if we have one, usually I am the only melee dps and as I am assassin, +4% damage for spells is good, hunter brings w/e other buff).

[Kavoo]

Fire mage (~11k)
Frost mage (~13k)
SV hunter (~12.5k)
Rogue 1 (15k)
Rogue 2 (13.5k)

gear/dps issue.

[Chaosbane]

I guess it's not clear that I understand the dps is a problem, but is there any solution outside of sitting them and finding a pug? As to the low fire mage part of the problem is he's (no joke) french canadian, and has a lot of trouble understanding sites such as EJ. The odd thing is our dps isn't really mediocre on any other fight, typically everyone in the raid is 16 to 17k+. It's just that for this specific fight we're having problems, and the revolving door of players has hit us hard (lost 2 healers, 1 tank, 1 dps in the last month to rift) I guess I'm at a loss, and the only thing we can do is start replacing our dps with pugs?

---------- Post added 2011-04-26 at 03:22 PM ----------

The rogue 1 stays on the boss, rogue 2 is the add interrupter and the interrupt duty is shared by the tank/rogue

[Razorice]

tell one of the healers to go DPS. you can easily 2 heal on Cho'gall if people avoid shit on the ground.
Fire mage doing 10-11k DPS in full epic? lol? replace him IMO or tell him to work on his class.
After you kill the big add and the adds, all ranged stack up so fire mage can use his dragon breath if 2 get CC'ed in range group
Before going to 2nd phase make sure everyone has 80%+ health and VERY low corruption levels, that will improve the chance of you getting him

Goodluck

[gymrat2005]

I hope im not too late on this but, If your having problems with dps you should be 2 healing this fight anways

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nntis/advanced

ive 2 healed this fight with a resto shammy and a disc priest,he doesn't hit hard and there really isnt any AoE damage besides the one where you must all stack up.

Its Imperitive that the DPS does not get tunnel vision and try to burn the boss during phase 2, they must kill the tentacles,btw tank him at his throne, the tentacles will spawn extremely close to him and alot of times AoE damage will get them down to 60% before single targeted.

I can honestly say that this fight is my most comfortable,I know it like clockwork and I have a 17k HPS 61.2% Total Healing WoL parse.

Btw this xpac,melee are a crutch there are soo many encounters right now where ranged are favored over melee my guild is 8/13 HM and if you look at ours and alot of others DPS comps for HM's you will see about 80% ranged.

It might be you fire mage and the fact you have 2 rogues witch bring no raid utility,if i were you have your hpally 2 heal it with the other hpally or the priest.

[fainflinn]

Here;s my 2 cents
I play a blood DK and I also pick up the adds and do all the interrupting
This will help with your dps so u can leave the rogue on the boss
Interrupting works as follows ......first the blood dk has to start tanking so he can always be the one topick up the add
soon as fury goes off start running to the add and have the other tank pick up Cho ....

Once u get to the add stand there and get threat while waiting for the first cast (usually about 2s after he spawns) now while mind freeze is on cooldown run the add to the spot where u kill it at ....when mindfreeze is about to come off cooldown .....STOP and wait for the cast again then hit it the cooldown on mindfreeze is 8 seconds the cast on deprevity comes every 10s so u have till MF is off cooldown to move it into place

we have a frost mage a hunter and a shadow priest for range our SP dps isnt so hot since we just picked him up our hunter does abiout 17k on the fight and our frost mage complains cause he wants to play fire but he still does around 12-15 i honestly forget his dps our 2 melee guys do about 20k+ cause they just sit on the boss

we usually end up killing a 3rd add altho times we made the call to just burn chogall and forget about the 3rd add this is gonna depend on where cho's health is at of course even so if u kill a third add u should be able to ignore the 4th if he even spawns ....if he does spawn your tank still has topick him up and interrupt

the adds are also lvl 85 if i remember right so remember u dont need the boss hit cap to interrupt also if your using the blood tank to interrupt MF works off of spell hit and chances are he's spell hit capped for interrupting at least.

hope this helps
Put cho down and go wipe on nef instead its much more entertaining : )