Dear people running the new heroics:

[halmotors]

I know you're excited about the new heroics, and that's great! But don't go into them until you read up on them or at least watch a video or two. A lot of my groups have 3/5 or 4/5 people who have never been there before (I know, they just came out yesterday and I'm okay with that), and/or have no clue what to do in the dungeon. If you're running them in the ilvl-appropriate gear, you have to be on your toes in at least ZG to avoid wiping constantly.

So please, exercise some common courtesy and at least do a little light reading before you step foot into these dungeons and save time having other people explain it to you and probably fail to get the point across. Watch a video; a lot of these fights are better learned visually. We're all learning alongside you! But that doesn't mean we want to be in there for two hours wiping on trash, or to have the group fall apart because of one wipe on Venoxis and thus waste the last 30 minutes I just spent in queue.

<3

[Shadow Pew Pew]

I see what you did there

[The_Butcher]

or at least answer when people ask "do you know the fight?"
I've had multiple people not say a word when i've asked, and be the problem during the wipe.

I'm more then happy to give an explanation, but if it truely is their first time, they should at least speak up.

[MikeBogina]

they just came out....O.o

[gangstershap456]

yeah I cant stand it when we have a uncessiasry wipe cuz someone wouldnt just say they dont know fight and take 2 mins to learn it

[Grimbold21]

they just came out....O.o

The videos have been out for a while now.

[Soisoisoi]

They've been on the PTR for ages, it isn't exactly hard to watch a video, doesn't matter if they only 'came out' yesterday, people should look things up before jumping into things and making life harder for other people.

[Kouki]

Started Za 8:00am my time.
Finished Za 1pm my time, no joke, rotated out tons and tons of pugs, some only stayed seconds.

Started Zg, 2pm my time, Got to last boss 8pm,
i dc for 3 seconds come back no one voted me but system kicked me out.

Do you not get any time to reconnect anymore?

[Raziella]

People aren't answering when asked if they've done the dungeon before so the wannabe elitists don't try to initiate a vote kick on them during the first two days of release.
And yes, I've seen this happen already.
They're new, they're a bit challenging in appropriate ilvl, and unfortunately, pugging is going to require some help and explaination from experienced members for a while.
The real problems have been the rampant ilvl cheating, and people needing on BoEs and immediately dropping group.

And I stopped playing the PTR when developers admitted they don't take the feedback from it very seriously.

[Krekko]

I know you're excited about the new heroics, and that's great! But don't go into them until you read up on them or at least watch a video or two. A lot of my groups have 3/5 or 4/5 people who have never been there before (I know, they just came out yesterday and I'm okay with that), and/or have no clue what to do in the dungeon. If you're running them in the ilvl-appropriate gear, you have to be on your toes in at least ZG to avoid wiping constantly.

So please, exercise some common courtesy and at least do a little light reading before you step foot into these dungeons and save time having other people explain it to you and probably fail to get the point across. Watch a video; a lot of these fights are better learned visually. We're all learning alongside you! But that doesn't mean we want to be in there for two hours wiping on trash, or to have the group fall apart because of one wipe on Venoxis and thus waste the last 30 minutes I just spent in queue.

<3

Because explaining is hard amirite?

I don't expect people to go watch the fights, there is something about being there infront of them and having it explained then fighting them rather then watching it again and again and then doing it. Less fun.

Take 2 minutes, explain the fights, I haven't had to spend more than that to explain any fight so far.

What does bother me as The_Butcher said, people who stay silent when you ask "Do you know the fight" then don't know the fight, or people who don't ask for help.

[ChaosEater]

Honestly, the fights aren't that hard as to need researching. 1 wipe per boss is all that should be needed to know what not to do. Although that didnt stop my group from wiping for 2 hours last night (was unlucky and the other 4 were all from the same guild) and then kicking me for being an "elitist" when i started pointing out how the fight should be done.

[Kyzar]

I agree and approve of this thread.

[Devilishinc]

I never did understand that i know they came out yesterday, but how long have they been on ptr? and im pretty sure i seen videos on both of em on youtube at least a week before they went live. You would think people would take advantage of that and learn them before they came out to avoid being one of the 3/5 4/5 people that had no clue what to do.

[Kaliara]

They've been on the PTR for ages, it isn't exactly hard to watch a video, doesn't matter if they only 'came out' yesterday, people should look things up before jumping into things and making life harder for other people.

What if people like to learn encounters by doing them? What if they don't want to spoil the surprise of a new encounter before it's even been released? Though personally I would only do it in a group of like-minded guildies.

[halmotors]

Because explaining is hard amirite?

It gets tedious after the 15th time having to do it (sometimes with the same people). Explaining is easy; expecting people to actually listen is hard.

Honestly, the fights aren't that hard as to need researching.

No, they're not that hard provided you can pay attention, but taking 5 minutes to skim through that video can save you 30 minutes of wipes and running back.

[The Chilli God]

Some people are kinesthetic learners. They learn by doing the content, not by reading or watching videos. You cannot expect players to all learn the content the same way you do.

A simple primer contained in one macro per boss would save you more grief than getting bent out of shape because people want to enjoy the content in their own way.

[Soisoisoi]

What if people like to learn encounters by doing them? What if they don't want to spoil the surprise of a new encounter before it's even been released? Though personally I would only do it in a group of like-minded guildies.

Then they should go with guildies or friends and not touch LFD, pretty simple.

[Krekko]

It gets tedious after the 15th time having to do it (sometimes with the same people). Explaining is easy; expecting people to actually listen is hard.

No, they're not that hard provided you can pay attention, but taking 5 minutes to skim through that video can save you 30 minutes of wipes and running back.

Macros own. Make a quick macro about it. Copy and paste. you gotta help people learn so they sooner know it rather then feed the problem.

[phirx]

i did both of the heoics with ppl that did not look up fights. just told them in vent the way the fight took place in video's i watched, yeah we had alot of wipes till everyone caught on... today i got into a random and only 2 ppl said they knew it, the others never said a thing, sure enough the 2 that diidnt say anything caused us to wipe. after that anytime me and a guildie did one we would explain the fight whether or not the others knew them, and have almost no promblems since exept healers that DC

[halmotors]

Macros own. Make a quick macro about it. Copy and paste. you gotta help people learn so they sooner know it rather then feed the problem.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against someone who doesn't know the fight; I'm not going to kick you for not knowing how to defeat a certain boss. But it really helps to do your homework beforehand. Why should the burden of effort be solely on me to make a billion macros for each boss and spam them every time I drag new people through them?

This is an argument that's been done to death already. One side doesn't think they should be responsible for holding the hands of the lazy majority, and the other side feels that people who don't want to explain boss fights and expect people to know the strats are elitist and don't want to help people. I like helping people, I really do, but as Tree said above me, if you want to go in there and learn the fights blind...do it with your guild or friends, not people you don't know.