Patch 4.2 PTR Notes, Patch 4.1 Hotfixes - May 2

[FalinMor]

This change is total BS.

If Ferals are benefiting too much then Cats should be #1 on dps meters most of the time, which is JUST NOT TRUE! Feral Cats already have bad damage scaling @85, and with this they lose some "marginal" AP (Horn of Winter ) and make damage scaling even WORSE!

Totally unnecessary and until Blizz actually fix the issues that at lower levels anyone can NEED on anything regardless of armor type, this change (even if it is intended for lvl. 85 toons) is total BS!

Do I need to mention that Bear's hits are like wet noodle?

On the other hand this change is quite in line for Cata.

"Making retarded changes for retards, because making a choice, especially if it is a bad one is not part of fun"

Blizzard developers ARE CLEARLY OUT OF TOUCH WHAT FUN ACTUALLY IS!!!

To make the matter even worse, the change is intended to make STR items less valuable for Ferals while at the same time they are making the real problem of damage scaling even worse.

DO NOT FORGET THAT FERAL NOT ONLY LOSES THE STRENGTH BENEFIT FROM BUFFS BUT ALSO FROM FERAL AGGRESSION MODIFER OF +25% TO ATTACK POWER AND FROM A TALENT HEART OF THE WILD (+10%) - TOTAL AP MODIFIER FOR CAT FORM IS +37,5%!!!

I am aware of all of the above, thanks.

The bottom line is, anyone using a Strength item/gem/enchant for either Cat or Bear when there are Agility alternatives available simply doesn't know how to gear a Feral (or has horrible luck with drops, or is lazy). Period. There is no valid argument against this.

Cats are great in heroics and normal raids as far as DPS. They are going to have serious scaling issues, this is true. But that has nothing to do with Strength, it has to do with scaling. They need to fix the scaling issues, sure. But those have NOTHING to do with Strength.

Bears hit like a wet noodle? LOL.

---------- Post added 2011-05-04 at 02:50 PM ----------

Nah they are not. Direct comparison between a couple necks and a couple rings, the differences are marginal you gain a little crit but lose a little dodge and vice versa, MARGINAL differences.

Yes, they are. An epic 359 item with Agility is MUCH better than an epic 359 item with Strength/Dodge.

Why?

They have the same amount of Stamina.
They have the same amount of Agility/Strength.

So what does the Strength get you? Some AP that will make your Savage Defense shields absorb slightly more damage.
The Agility gets you the same amount of AP, PLUS a bunch of crit so Savage Defense procs more, PLUS a bunch of Dodge.

What about secondary Stats?
The Strength item has Dodge. This is good.
The Strength item has one other threat stat (often expertise, hit or mastery). Can you reforge any of these into dodge? No.

The Agility item doesn't have dodge. It has two threat stats. Can you reforge one of these into dodge? YES.

The dodge you get from Agility plus the dodge you get from reforging is always higher than the dodge you get from the Dodge stat on a Strength item. Always, without exception. So, an Agility item compares to a Strength/Dodge item like this:

1. More Dodge (Agility + reforged Dodge > Dodge on a strength item)
2. The same amount of AP
3. More Crit (more Savage Defense procs)
4. More non-dodge secondary stats. This can equal better savage defense procs (Mastery), more frequent savage defense procs (Crit and Haste), more threat (Crit, Haste, Hit, Expertise)
5. Socket bonuses. What's the best stat for a Bear? Agility, by far. Nothing else even comes close. Do Strength items get Agility socket bonuses? No. Never, ever. Do Agility items get Agility socket bonuses? Yes, fairly often.

So, yeah. Agility items are better in every single category than equivalent Strength/Dodge items are. It's not even close.

Think of it this way: A bear using a Str/Dodge neck instead of an Agility neck is WORSE than a bear using an Agility neck with a socket in it and sticking in a Spirit gem. Yes, the difference is that big. You'd be better off using an Agility neck with a Spirit gem in it over a Strength/Dodge neck with a good gem.

[Vardjavi]

They damn well better add Fear to the list of non-aggro crowd control. Warlocks are already getting screwed that their CC only lasts 20 secs, has to be glyphed to be viable and has a 5 second cooldown.

/agree, at least make it last as long as other cc's

[Darling]

Ring of Frost was terribly hard to avoid, right...

[belushisushi]

I am aware of all of the above, thanks.

The bottom line is, anyone using a Strength item/gem/enchant for either Cat or Bear when there are Agility alternatives available simply doesn't know how to gear a Feral (or has horrible luck with drops, or is lazy). Period. There is no valid argument against this.

Cats are great in heroics and normal raids as far as DPS. They are going to have serious scaling issues, this is true. But that has nothing to do with Strength, it has to do with scaling. They need to fix the scaling issues, sure. But those have NOTHING to do with Strength.

Bears hit like a wet noodle? LOL.

---------- Post added 2011-05-04 at 02:50 PM ----------



Yes, they are. An epic 359 item with Agility is MUCH better than an epic 359 item with Strength/Dodge.

Why?

They have the same amount of Stamina.
They have the same amount of Agility/Strength.

So what does the Strength get you? Some AP that will make your Savage Defense shields absorb slightly more damage.
The Agility gets you the same amount of AP, PLUS a bunch of crit so Savage Defense procs more, PLUS a bunch of Dodge.

What about secondary Stats?
The Strength item has Dodge. This is good.
The Strength item has one other threat stat (often expertise, hit or mastery). Can you reforge any of these into dodge? No.

The Agility item doesn't have dodge. It has two threat stats. Can you reforge one of these into dodge? YES.

The dodge you get from Agility plus the dodge you get from reforging is always higher than the dodge you get from the Dodge stat on a Strength item. Always, without exception. So, an Agility item compares to a Strength/Dodge item like this:

1. More Dodge (Agility + reforged Dodge > Dodge on a strength item)
2. The same amount of AP
3. More Crit (more Savage Defense procs)
4. More non-dodge secondary stats. This can equal better savage defense procs (Mastery), more frequent savage defense procs (Crit and Haste), more threat (Crit, Haste, Hit, Expertise)
5. Socket bonuses. What's the best stat for a Bear? Agility, by far. Nothing else even comes close. Do Strength items get Agility socket bonuses? No. Never, ever. Do Agility items get Agility socket bonuses? Yes, fairly often.

So, yeah. Agility items are better in every single category than equivalent Strength/Dodge items are. It's not even close.

Think of it this way: A bear using a Str/Dodge neck instead of an Agility neck is WORSE than a bear using an Agility neck with a socket in it and sticking in a Spirit gem. Yes, the difference is that big. You'd be better off using an Agility neck with a Spirit gem in it over a Strength/Dodge neck with a good gem.

This.

Consider two iLvL 359 rings that I believe fit what your trying to get at...

Earthen Ring exalted rep ring "Signet of the Elder Council":
190 Agi -> .78% Dodge
Reforge Haste to Dodge you get
50.8 Dodge Rating -> .29% Dodge (rounded)

Ending relevant stats being:
380 AP
286 Stam
1.07% Dodge
127 Mastery Rating
.58% Crit
76.2 Haste Rating

1250 Valor Point "Ring of the Battle Anthem":
127 Dodge Rating -> .72% Dodge

Ending relevant stats being:
380 AP (190 AP post patch)
286 Stam
.72% Dodge
127 Mastery

Same goes for same iLvl neck pieces... that is if my math is correct for the Agi -> dodge conversions and such