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  1. #61
    You're focusing way too much on the wording. Blizzard tooltips are notorious for being poorly worded. Don't jump the gun and assume the worst without any more information than a datamined tooltip.

    You're ignoring logic and focusing on semantics. I will go out on a limb and declare with near certainty: It's worded wrong and that's not how it works.

    [Edited] For clarity.
    Last edited by Dendrek; 2011-05-08 at 04:42 AM.

  2. #62
    Over 9000! Myrrar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dendrek View Post
    You're focusing way too much on the wording. Blizzard tooltips are notorious for being poorly worded. Don't jump the gun and assume the worst without any more information than "how it's worded." You're ignoring logic and focusing on semantics. I will go out on a limb and declare with near certainty: It's worded wrong and that's not how it works.
    Agreed. It's fairly obvious people don't heal their beacon, would defeat the purpose. And Blizz isn't going to try and push people to do that, it wouldn't make sense.

    This is the reason worrying about things so early on PTR is pointless. Not only will things drastically change but 1/2 of it probably isn't correct anyway. Another thing, we put the news in green now because it shows it's datamined, not straight from the servers or Blizzard. If it's not blue, don't put too much weight on it.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by utopianh View Post
    Actually most of the people in the thread have been hyperbolic in arguing that it is bad - Spruce and my post are two of the only ones that have focused on why this is a buff to druid burst healing capabilities, something we drastically need, still. While it would be nice to have a bonus that effected us all the time, this is like a bonus that would read "Increases your healing in Tree of Life by 30%" which would hardly be a bad thing on it's own, but this is massive and raid wide healing, and possibly an even greater increase in overall healing under the effect of ToL.

    Arguing that it's not useful outside of ToL is very narrow minded, considering how big an increase to healing on LB this is, it's not surprising that it has downsides.

    Basically this is a bonus you'll use every ToL, and in addition, any time you make a mistake or have to let LB drop off, you get bonus aoe healing to make up for it. This is a very good set bonus and far better than something like increased healing to rejuv or lifebloom, unlike what most of the thread is arguing. We hardly need more output over time, we need more burst, and I like this better than a boost to regrowth.
    Well said.

    This reminds me of the first month of Cata. when I was running around preaching stacking mastery beyond 915 haste. Everyone was hung up on some "theorycrafting" they devised about how it was worthless... that we would never be able to leverage it and we would never have the heals out to use it. Fast forward 2 months and it was all the rage, short of having DI or being able to reach 2005 haste. EJ and everyone was singing a different toon and even created an addon showing that you could in fact leverage symbiosis very well and it was very strong.

    As I said then for mastery, I will say the same for this bonus. It is definitely going to require skill to use it effectively. I like bonuses like this, the skill cap is very high and it really comes down to the players ability to make it work for them.

    As for outside ToL, a 3x lb stack will be much more forgiving to break without the tier 11 buff (withstanding being a tank focused role). I can see using it more than people let on. Often while healing the raid I will go back to the tank to refresh and see him and/or the melee needing some attention. This will be a great time to just let it fall off, as opposed to casting a direct heal to refresh or just LB. Again we only need 1x to get our new regen buff and gift procs up, so if your not a tank focused healer you should have the freedom to let them drop in situations and not be as rushed applying a 3x. And tbh I only consider this icing on the cake, the buff to ToL is where I am focused.

    We don't need more throughput, as has been repeated by druids for a very long time, we need more AOE burst healing. Well we get a buff to one of the two AOE cd's we have, and everyone seems to want some straight throughput buff instead..

    As for finding places to use it, I keep seeing people talk about how there is no way to time it or really make it worthwile, I think the best quote was "so random and drastically different every time you use based on the fight". Well sorry but huh?. This is hard for me to even understand, are we playing the same game? lets just think about this tier and see how hard it is to time and plan:

    Magmaw: Pretty much anytime when the head is not exposed. I pop it following the first pillar. The fights movement makes this always effective, there is plenty to heal.

    Omno: Shadow Conductor and security measure, easy to time.

    Maloriak: Black phase, p2. Easy to time.

    Atramedes: Like Mag, anytime not air-phase. Movement makes this always effective, plenty to heal.

    Chimearon: Duh.

    Nef: I start pillar, then on cd post crackle, rotated with tranq. Easy to time.

    Halfus:
    Anytime

    VT: Blackouts, again, easy to time.

    Chogall: Empowered shadows, easy to time.

    Do I need to go on? I have ToL tailored to every single fight. It is one of my essential tools.

    Anyway, I guess I am not surprised to see the negative reaction. It's mastery all over again... lol I guess I am just left thinking that most don't use it correctly to begin with, because if you did you would be as stoked as me.
    Last edited by Sprucelee; 2011-05-08 at 03:09 AM.

  4. #64
    Over 9000! Myrrar's Avatar
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    Sorry, it's not going to take any skill to use. Instead of using RJs on the raid which will do more healing we will be LB spamming. On CC we will only be using RG on tanks. The only time we add another LB is when one expires. This will actually take less skill than deciding if it's better to RJ, who to only LB, and balancing slow stacking up LB between all the people you've blanketed while procing efflor and WG.

    As said, most people aren't saying this is a bad bonus. But, in the end it may or may not be a huge boost to healing. As many have pointed out and so many like to ignore, you *will* be changing how you heal if you get the 4 piece and you aren't dumb. This change to healing will give a hps/throughput boost depending on the timing.

    In 10s it's very easy to slow stack and keep up 3 LBs on most people adding in WGs, efflor, and rjs where needed. Now in 10s, you can under no circumstance besides the tanks and people you know really need the healing slow stack on people without pretty much negating the 4 piece. The bloom already and will often go to overheal, because, the bloom is the end of the spell. The only thing changing in this situation is the 2 piece which while it will be amazing I end ToL phases with more mana to spare than I know what to do with, besides the fact other people will use their totem/mana CDs since they don't have the regen from ToL. So, you can either have a lot of overheal for mana, for have a lot of healing(a lot of overheal) blowing a mana CD when it's not needed.

    In 25s it will be a lot, lot better. From someone who's main is in an extreme endgame guild this change will be great for certain fights, as said.

    You aren't looking at the whole picture which is massively skewing your opinion. On 90% of the fights in T11, the only fights where it wont be drastically different everytime and fights with constant, spike, aoe dmg. Where the bloom will not even reallt have a chance to go to overheal.


    Unless your guilds other healers are terrible on most of the examples you gave by the time the bloom goes off it will go to overheal. And pre-casting is not an option since you will waste too much of the basic + healing to an amazing CD.

    And you may want to get off your high horse. Most of the people posting in this thread are the same people who said mastery would be good, the ToL change would be good, along with all the other changes that people cry about before they understand.

    You are mistaking people discussing the possible downfalls to a spell so we can consider ways to tweak it to make it better with people not understanding the spell and how it should work. You may want to open your bias and actually read what everyone is saying.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Myrrar View Post
    Sorry, it's not going to take any skill to use. Instead of using RJs on the raid which will do more healing we will be LB spamming. On CC we will only be using RG on tanks. The only time we add another LB is when one expires. This will actually take less skill than deciding if it's better to RJ, who to only LB, and balancing slow stacking up LB between all the people you've blanketed while procing efflor and WG.

    As said, most people aren't saying this is a bad bonus. But, in the end it may or may not be a huge boost to healing. As many have pointed out and so many like to ignore, you *will* be changing how you heal if you get the 4 piece and you aren't dumb. This change to healing will give a hps/throughput boost depending on the timing.

    In 10s it's very easy to slow stack and keep up 3 LBs on most people adding in WGs, efflor, and rjs where needed. Now in 10s, you can under no circumstance besides the tanks and people you know really need the healing slow stack on people without pretty much negating the 4 piece. The bloom already and will often go to overheal, because, the bloom is the end of the spell. The only thing changing in this situation is the 2 piece which while it will be amazing I end ToL phases with more mana to spare than I know what to do with, besides the fact other people will use their totem/mana CDs since they don't have the regen from ToL. So, you can either have a lot of overheal for mana, for have a lot of healing(a lot of overheal) blowing a mana CD when it's not needed.

    In 25s it will be a lot, lot better. From someone who's main is in an extreme endgame guild this change will be great for certain fights, as said.

    You aren't looking at the whole picture which is massively skewing your opinion. On 90% of the fights in T11, the only fights where it wont be drastically different everytime and fights with constant, spike, aoe dmg. Where the bloom will not even reallt have a chance to go to overheal.


    Unless your guilds other healers are terrible on most of the examples you gave by the time the bloom goes off it will go to overheal. And pre-casting is not an option since you will waste too much of the basic + healing to an amazing CD.

    And you may want to get off your high horse. Most of the people posting in this thread are the same people who said mastery would be good, the ToL change would be good, along with all the other changes that people cry about before they understand.

    You are mistaking people discussing the possible downfalls to a spell so we can consider ways to tweak it to make it better with people not understanding the spell and how it should work. You may want to open your bias and actually read what everyone is saying.
    The skill is in timing it, not the rotation. I guess you missed that. You are playing both ends, you say how simple it will be to use in ToL, but all of a sudden when it comes to timing the blooms it becomes too hard to use and will end up as overheal.

    And your refuting of my examples by simply stating "they will be overheal" is wildly unfair and inaccurate. You are totally dodging them and/or don't have the experience in this tier with them is my only conclusion. Have you even completed half these fights in HM? As if these mechanics are just easy and there is little healing to be done...You should be rotating cd's within your healing crew anyways, making it even more valuable with little to no overheal potential. But no, you just simply state it would always be over-heal, across the board, on 9 examples... lame.

    And speaking of high horses... just because you are the moderator here and maintain a guide does not make you correct. Just because I have a different opinion on the 4pc, and am excited about it, does not make me biased and arrogant, thank you.
    Last edited by Sprucelee; 2011-05-08 at 04:53 AM.

  6. #66
    Over 9000! Myrrar's Avatar
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    I have done 13/13 25HM and 10/13 10HM, so yes, I have done these. I also didn't say it will always go to overheal, no reason to take views out of context.

    I did not say I was correct, you can stop putting words into others mouths. I'm saying people have already said it *CAN* be a good CD. They are now talking about why it can not be and ways to fix it.

    There will also be no skill in timing. If you blow ToL early so that your blooms hit when needed you will be wasting more throughput that the bloom will give out. It has nothing to do with skill, just the fact that it's a spell that we have to base off it's endtime, unlike anyone other 4 piece. It's a bad mechanic to base a 4 piece off of, end of story. Yes, when you get blooms on time it will be an easy 27k if people are close enough and it doesn't go to overheal. Anytime this does not happen the 4 piece will be next to useless.

    As said, most people will have it and only use it for specific fights, and that's not good. A 4 piece should be something you want to use in all situations, even if it's not going to get the full effect. (like how CH will sometimes not get that extra bounce in).

    So I'll say once again: You are mistaking people discussing the possible downfalls to a spell so we can consider ways to tweak it to make it better with people not understanding the spell and how it should work.

    Also, you called yourself arrogant, not me. No need to get so upset...lol No one is insulting your opinion. Debates are made up of opposing opinions and if you can't handle debate, this topic may not be for you. So, lets cut the bull and stay on topic, no need to try and pick fights and any posts like that between anyone will be deleted. =]

    Most sections can't have constructive topics with real debate so they just close them. I try and refrain from doing that in the druid section. People need to try and leave their pride out of posts and realize it's just talking about a game, no need to get so upset whens someone disagrees with you.
    Last edited by Myrrar; 2011-05-08 at 05:51 AM.

  7. #67
    The Patient utopianh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myrrar View Post
    So I'll say once again: You are mistaking people discussing the possible downfalls to a spell so we can consider ways to tweak it to make it better with people not understanding the spell and how it should work.
    I think you are entirely misunderstanding a majority of the posters in this thread, and mistaking people complaining for actual discussion. A majority of the posters in this thread are not discussing ways to "improve it" nor do most of them understand the set bonus' primary purpose.
    God is a comedian playing to an audience that is afraid to laugh. ~ Voltaire

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