Enha scales badly, why?

[drbutcher]

This is why I have that big sticky on how NOT to use stateofdps.com.

Fire mages are scaling poorly and do pretty poor single target damage. The only reason they look high on SoDPS and such is that they can AoE easily and lucky crit streaks push their damage way up for that fight. For every fight a Fire mage gets those lucky streaks, there's another where the tanks are catching up to his DPS because he can't get a proc to save his life. You just don't see those ones on SoDPS because they're not the top 200.

Neither Shaman spec is the worst DPS spec. We're below average, but that's by no means the same thing.

We are at the bottom deal with it.And SoDPS doesnt have only the total dps of all bosses.You can check what is happening in bosses without aoe.There isn't a single fight in which we can outdps boomkins or fire mages.Also why we should take out aoe when half bosses have aoe? It is part of the boss isn't it?

[CrowShammy]

Unholy dks get their BiS weapon from nefarion, at least in 25 man, for 359 we can get a really rare archeology wep with exactly same stats >.>
But we're not QQing about it are we? Akirus = bad, shalug'doom even worse.

psh, complaining because akirus has expertise, and unholy is one of the melee specs out there that does not have to even come close to the expertise soft cap. blizz really dropped the ball in allowing melee specs to get away with that.

complain after you have to stack expertise to soft cap and hit to spell hit cap without the benefit of having any spell hit baked into your tree.

[mercutiouk]

psh, complaining because akirus has expertise, and unholy is one of the melee specs out there that does not have to even come close to the expertise soft cap. blizz really dropped the ball in allowing melee specs to get away with that.

complain after you have to stack expertise to soft cap and hit to spell hit cap without the benefit of having any spell hit baked into your tree.

The difference here is you have SOME OPTION for weapons before neffy. There are ZERO hard mode weapons that enhance would even find "mildly ok" before neffy HC. Unless you consider a tanking mace a decent enhance weapon?
I'd happily take a HC weapon with crit and haste (2 pathetic stats for enhance) dropping from atrem/mal (as early/mid HC fights). There's NOTHING.

Just to make the point:
http://www.wowhead.com/items=2?filte...21;crs=1;crv=0
Note: both Claws of Torment and Crul'korak, the Lightning's Arc have no drop in game as there's no such thing as heroic trash.

As far as the whole DK "weapon has expertise" thing goes - 2x 1h str swords from magmaw are completely viable at present. The only restriction is you couldn't then drop into blood presence and tank.

[Endus]

We are at the bottom deal with it.And SoDPS doesnt have only the total dps of all bosses.You can check what is happening in bosses without aoe.There isn't a single fight in which we can outdps boomkins or fire mages.Also why we should take out aoe when half bosses have aoe? It is part of the boss isn't it?

See, I can tell you didn't even read the sticky, because you're completely missing the point and still pushing bad information.

No, neither spec is the worst DPS in the game. Even according to SoDPS.

[Gargz]

See, I can tell you didn't even read the sticky, because you're completely missing the point and still pushing bad information.

No, neither spec is the worst DPS in the game. Even according to SoDPS.

Endus, I was not even referring to SoDPS and yes I did read your sticky and I actually understood it all. My comment on fire mages was made under the assumption it was still the "prime" PvE spec. Obviously much has changed. I have actually recently returned to the game after an extremely long break.

But from what I've seen so far Mage damage is major burst but hard to sustain and enh has a slow ramp up time but is easier to maintain in the long run on identical boss fights where both have access to boss damage.

[Vehemence]

I want 2handed enhancement back.... but poof! other more populated classes get a whole new mechanic... I was seriously this close to have my shaman to be my main for this expansion, with the elemental theme and all, but meh, not even blizzard cares.

[LyskaWF]

I want 2handed enhancement back.... but poof! other more populated classes get a whole new mechanic... I was seriously this close to have my shaman to be my main for this expansion, with the elemental theme and all, but meh, not even blizzard cares.

This is the absolute LAST thing anyone should be worrying about. This game is so incredibly imbalanced without Blizzard trying to implement something as stupid as 2h enhancement. If you want to play a 2h class go roll a dk, war, or ret. You are literally asking for a way to play without using our biggest mechanic. Seriously just no...

[mercutiouk]

This is the absolute LAST thing anyone should be worrying about. This game is so incredibly imbalanced without Blizzard trying to implement something as stupid as 2h enhancement. If you want to play a 2h class go roll a dk, war, or ret. You are literally asking for a way to play without using our biggest mechanic. Seriously just no...

As you even quoted his post. The next line actually said "other specs get whole new mechanics" which was clearly intended to be a comparrison to us who have had our options restricted rather than opened. I too would like to play as a 2x1h weapon melee class but it seems blizzard have no real interest in giving us the weapons we need to do our job. Posts like this are born of that frustration. It wouldn't take a deal of tinkering to have a couple of skills work differently if we were holding a 2H weapon and make it completely viable.

Alternatively blizz could just give us 2AP from both str and agi and make sure there's a couple of each that are axe/mace. We'd loose the crit from agi of course but at least it would provide us with some alternative if sub-optimal weapons rather than 1 weapon in an entire tier.

[Velanis]

I went and poked through some of <Elitist Jerks> logs real quick and their Enhance Shaman seems to be putting out good damage.

Operator error? >:

[inforsir]

This is the absolute LAST thing anyone should be worrying about. This game is so incredibly imbalanced without Blizzard trying to implement something as stupid as 2h enhancement. If you want to play a 2h class go roll a dk, war, or ret. You are literally asking for a way to play without using our biggest mechanic. Seriously just no...

you are fucking retarded arnt u Before the Changed Wind Fury ENCH WAS 2Hand Wep

FYI. Thats why ench shamans was able to 1 shot people in vanilla was because of wind fury was a able to proc off windfury hits so ull get them rolling off each other

know ur shit before u even talk


[User was infracted for this post]

[Dimgo]

raidbots. com/dpsbot/ (cant post links yet)
Both shaman specs down there

[Dave131]

God what a depressing thread D:

[fluffshock]

What needs to be done is the removal of the windfury Icd along with the attack power and change the ability to magic damage so it is affected buy our mastery

[Omanley]

There are several reasons why enhance is below average.
1.) Weapon and gear itemisation: Weapon itemisation was almost non-benefitiant for us since we got dw in 2.0.: No tbc enh reputation reward, kara weapons being mainhand only for a loooong time, rising tide in bt being mh only, swp weps being fists, wotlk the same, weapons always dropping form the last boss or being fist weapons. And since we share our armor with hunters, hit is scarce on it and expertise is non existant, which leeds us to:
2.) High rating caps: With having to get the entire 1746 hitrating, and the exp-rating for 18 expertise, 541. This in sum is higher than any other melee's forced to cap both.
3.) Bad scaling with haste, due to the 20% buff reversal from 3.1. as well as the halving of windfury totem buff. Add to that the change to static shock proccing of stormstrikes and lava lashes instead of a flat strike change, which is affected by haste.
4.) Bad scaling with crit, since our spells only crit for 150%. Since ret, dk and rogues have no caster spec their spelldmg would have to be balanced against, and feral using it's own abilities, enhancement is the only spec really suffering from that.
5.) Good old rng, but i guess we aren't the only ones uffering from that. At least here we aren't as bad as we were in wotlk

[Kuhnta]

I think one of the main probs is that WF is set ammount of AP. Hence why it can lean towards the OP side at the beginning of an XP and then slowly go down. I think its needs to shoot off an attack with an extra % of AP. might help.

[Omanley]

Windfury gets additional damage through weapon damage and attackpower. It's a often named myth that windfury doesn't scale at all (though it is true that it doesn't really scale with haste or mastery)

[Rouncer]

Windfury gets additional damage through weapon damage and attackpower. It's a often named myth that windfury doesn't scale at all (though it is true that it doesn't really scale with haste or mastery)

Actually WF doesn't scale with haste only when you are running WF/WF. With WF on just one weapon it scales wonderfully with haste. Actually it even scaled better with haste then flametongue before Cataclysm and now with 3 attacks per proc it should scale even better.

You are right though, it doesn't scale with our mastery except indirectly by generating MW stacks that are being used for LB/CL.

[Dave131]

How does it scale with Haste? Only benefit Enha Shamans get from Haste to my knowledge is slightly faster attack speed...

[Radux]

Faster attack speed = higher chance of hitting WF as soon as it's off the ICD. While not an awesome scaling factor, it still means WF scales with haste.

[wordup]

Actually WF doesn't scale with haste only when you are running WF/WF. With WF on just one weapon it scales wonderfully with haste. Actually it even scaled better with haste then flametongue before Cataclysm and now with 3 attacks per proc it should scale even better.

You are right though, it doesn't scale with our mastery except indirectly by generating MW stacks that are being used for LB/CL.

This sums up windfuries problem in a nutshell.
In my post I gave some brief reasons, but given the most core of our core mechanics (WF, MSW) that have existed since the onset of wrath, some even before that, scale fairly poorly with at least one of the three stats we have to take, WF scales virtually naught with Mastery, and haste provides a reasonable benefit but not a -huge- one a la mastery on spells; MSW with mastery, fairly weakly with haste and terribly with crit.
My biggest problem with haste now is, given MSW procs are underneath Lava Lash, UE-FS, and UE, it makes it seem redundant to force extra procs when it's likely there'll be a few globals of it wasted at least in some point of your rotation anyway.