1. #26301
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    I remember people in this thread claiming it wasn't rape the night of the episode, to justify the shit writing. So......?
    ...they were wrong.

    What ‘Game of Thrones’ Gets Wrong About Sansa Stark and Abuse

    Benioff and Weiss may have meant for the best when writing Sansa’s line to the Hound, but the words themselves deny the truth of her experiences. They refute the actions she took—actions they wrote—to heal, they ignore the psychological impact of cumulative trauma, and they could cause harm to survivors who don’t feel strong, either because of or in spite of what happened to them. Rape, assault, and abuse are designed to make people feel like denigrated, powerless “little birds.” True healing takes place when survivors reject that narrative and find power and affirmation elsewhere. This is true for me, for Sansa, and for every person who has ever been wounded by others. To say or imply otherwise is irresponsible and damaging, especially when writing for a show as popular as Game of Thrones.

    David Benioff and D.B. Weiss wrote Sansa’s story and should know her character thoroughly. She deserves to own her growth, not owe it to her abusers. She may be a show’s invention, but she deserves better. As for us viewers, we are not fictional. Our scars are real. We deserve writers who truly reflect a survivor’s story.

  2. #26302
    This is the West getting to enjoy the horror of an anime original ending.

    Maybe in a decade’s time we’ll get Game of Thrones: Brotherhood.

    Just kidding, Winds of Winter still won’t be out by then.

  3. #26303
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isilrien View Post
    Namely, the show gave us 7 seasons of building up the NK/white walkers/others as an existential threat to all life on Westeros, gestured to the Prince that was Promised prophecy and hinted that Dany or Jon might fulfill that in the dealing with the others, and then jerked us around by not paying that off. It was in the show, and it was completely ignored because the writers didn't feel right and wanted to surprise us. Fuck them for developing this storyline, making us think that this fight would be more of a struggle than it really was, and then ignoring all of that previous framework. THAT is why some of us who were equally book and show fans are disappointed, pissed, or irritated.
    There's also that these things are allegorical. The Night King is an elemental force of nature. That's how he's presented; he is Winter. It isn't that winter comes, and he takes advantage, the description was always as if he were the one drawing that veil Southward. He was created by the Children of the Forest (creatures tied directly to nature) as a weapon against the First Men; nature rising up to swallow them.

    That's an engaging story, and a worthy subject to tackle.

    It becomes astonishingly stupid when the resolution turns out to be "hey, has, like, anyone tried to stab this guy, at any time, in the last few thousand years?"

    There's nothing particularly special about Arya's dagger, or Arya herself. She's a Faceless Man, sure, but that doesn't make her super-awesome at killing White Walkers or something. And her dagger's Valyrian Steel; that stuff's rare now, but it didn't used to be, and dragonglass works the same way, which people have known the whole time. Jon Snow and friends didn't invent the dragonglass-as-a-weapon thing, they rediscovered it, since it had been apparently forgotten.

    But as written, Arya killed Nature by stabbing it real hard one time, and then everything bad exploded and everyone was saved. It's so fucking lazy.

    Hell, have the Night King die, Viserion screams and flies away, the White Walkers gather what few wights they can control and try to flee, most of the Wight army collapses into bones. The White Walkers will retreat and recover for a few centuries, a new one will rise to the mantle, and the cycle continues. That's fine; that makes the Night King not the avatar of nature, but just the current ambassador.

    It's like if you had a story about the conflicts between the Faerie courts, and how they were meddling with humanity, and had been doing so for ten thousand years. Queen Mab, leader of the Winter Court, most dangerous Fae there is, is just about to win a serious victory.

    And someone just, like, stabs her with a letter opener and she dies and the entire Winter Court dies and everything is saved forever.

    You'd throw your shoe at whoever wrote that bullshit. Well, that's what happened here.

  4. #26304
    Well itlsnt that what happnened thousands of yearz ago in thhe first long night, they drove away the Night King somhow, and he has been bulding his army up sincd then

  5. #26305
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    There's also that these things are allegorical. The Night King is an elemental force of nature. That's how he's presented; he is Winter. It isn't that winter comes, and he takes advantage, the description was always as if he were the one drawing that veil Southward. He was created by the Children of the Forest (creatures tied directly to nature) as a weapon against the First Men; nature rising up to swallow them.
    That is a possible take on it, but would still need some kind of explanation in the show. If the NK is winter, then he could have brought winter down south whenever he wanted. Why is he coming now?

    I always thought (from the show) that, like you said, he is bounded by where winter is. He can make it worse and has powers that cause wind and storms, but can't cause climate shifts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xcess View Post
    Well itlsnt that what happnened thousands of yearz ago in thhe first long night, they drove away the Night King somhow, and he has been bulding his army up sincd then
    I'm thinking that over those thousands of years, people have forgotten or changed the story of what happened so that the really don't know. The history of Westeros happens over several thousand years, more than the amount of time that writing has been around in our history. It's amazing that Westeros would know as much as they do about events that long ago and have it be completely accurate. That is what Bran is for. He went back to see the creation of the NK, but they should have also shown him go back and do some research on the first time there was winter and what happened. Like have him get some useful information about how to defeat the white walkers. Everything anyone knew about killing them came from Sam and Jon accidentally killing one. What use is Bran's knowledge of history (which the NK supposedly wants to destroy) if he never tells anyone anything?

  6. #26306
    Quote Originally Posted by IIamaKing View Post
    Funny, Veep had a line in the last episode where She gave the OK to kill a terrorist. The guy had a private zoo, with elephants, who got all burned up when they killed the guy. I laughed pretty hard, feel like it was a subtle nod to GoT.
    DUDE no fricking spoilers for other shows please!!! Here in the UK we haven't had this episode yet.

    Fuck's sake. Mind what you are writing please.

  7. #26307
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Gotta get press for X-men Dark Pheonix any way you can. Film looks garbo.
    Suri Cruise and Katie Holmes are SP's.

  8. #26308
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -aiko- View Post
    Oh, Jesus Christ.

    Overcoming any tragedy or traumatic event can make somebody stronger. I can't even with this shit.
    I still don't see how people are that shocked that Ramsey raped her. He's a psychopath, it's what he does. Sansa has two choices, let it destroy her, or grow stronger. After everything she's put up with post Ned's death, it's not a surprise she chose the latter.

  9. #26309
    Quote Originally Posted by ohwell View Post

    Watch it again. People were saying it was the gut, but it was nowhere even remotely near where he they put the shard, which was 100% right at the sternum. She didn't stab him anywhere near the sternum.
    Alright, time to bust out the crayons.



    Arya didn't have to stab the Night King in the middle of his chest. It is not the fucking entry wound that was his weak point, but his heart where the CotF put the dragonglass shard in. Arya knowing how to most effectively kill anything (stabbing it in the heart) has been established long time ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    ps. Ghost casually written out because mah budget.
    Jon didn't say goodbye to Ghost because the show writers know he will rejoin him in the last episode.

  10. #26310
    I know people have a lot of problems with this season.

    Im at "eh" levels after the treatment of littlefinger. I felt season 7 was a lot of fan service so I went into this season with a good attuide to send off a series I WILL miss because season 1-4 was so good, getting close to the level of the wire.

    But I am starting to have big problems with this season. I can forgive OP arrows from qyburn, I can dig that Arya was the one to kill the NK.

    but stuff like killing Missandei makes no sense. Shes a damn interpeter and Cersei somehow knows shes bff with Dany?

    She doesnt know that, We the audience know that.

    D&D are really fucking weird writers man.
    Suri Cruise and Katie Holmes are SP's.

  11. #26311
    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    Yeah and when it comes to 'canon' it is "first come, first served". If GRRM decides to write the story in his books wildly different than what the TV show has delivered, then his writing is just revisionist fan fiction.
    In your personal narrow definition sure

    Don’t expect the world to conform to such narrowminded ideas, when they miss the essence of the idea of what is canon. Traditionally, books aren’t put to film before they are finished writing. That is how your train of thought came into being. “It was first, therefore it is the original.”

    If we assume grrm made a rough outline for the entire series though, that was before the show got to it. So while not published, it did exist in some capacity.

    Also, a thought experiment. Imagine leonardo da vinci managed to travel back in time, and tell another painter about the mona lisa. That painter then paints his version of it, would that then be the original mona lisa? No, while not in chronological order, it is an impression of the original.

  12. #26312
    The Unstoppable Force Puupi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veggie50 View Post
    In your personal narrow definition sure

    Don’t expect the world to conform to such narrowminded ideas, when they miss the essence of the idea of what is canon. Traditionally, books aren’t put to film before they are finished writing. That is how your train of thought came into being. “It was first, therefore it is the original.”

    If we assume grrm made a rough outline for the entire series though, that was before the show got to it. So while not published, it did exist in some capacity.

    Also, a thought experiment. Imagine leonardo da vinci managed to travel back in time, and tell another painter about the mona lisa. That painter then paints his version of it, would that then be the original mona lisa? No, while not in chronological order, it is an impression of the original.
    If you need to use time travel as an example you should know your whole argument isn't on quite a solid ground.

    Being first definitely means something is "original". You can then argue whether it is better, worse, right or wrong.

    Also, as GRRM has given an outline for the show producers about the storyline - if he eventually deviates from that storyline in his books, he is revisioning his own original story and the TV show's original story as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i've said i'd like to have one of those bad dragon dildos shaped like a horse, because the shape is nicer than human.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i was talking about horse cock again, told him to look at your sig.

  13. #26313
    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    If you need to use time travel as an example you should know your whole argument isn't on quite a solid ground.

    Being first definitely means something is "original". You can then argue whether it is better, worse, right or wrong.

    Also, as GRRM has given an outline for the show producers about the storyline - if he eventually deviates from that storyline in his books, he is revisioning his own original story and the TV show's original story as well.
    I am sorry to hear you cannot cope with a thought experiment. I believe this speaks more to your limitations then to the quality of the argument.

    The showrunners weren't "first". They were told by GRRM what the story will be. They didn't concieve the story on their own. Just because you didn't get to see his first version of the story, does not invalidate its existence.

    One might argue though, that the story of the show and the books will be so distinctly different they develop their own canons. In that case however, it would be ridiculous to even argue about "what is canon".

    By all means though, if you want the show to be canon and the books to be fanfinction, let it be so to you <3

    "Canon" is largely a fanmade term either way

  14. #26314
    The Unstoppable Force Puupi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veggie50 View Post
    I am sorry to hear you cannot cope with a thought experiment. I believe this speaks more to your limitations then to the quality of the argument.

    The showrunners weren't "first". They were told by GRRM what the story will be. They didn't concieve the story on their own. Just because you didn't get to see his first version of the story, does not invalidate its existence.

    One might argue though, that the story of the show and the books will be so distinctly different they develop their own canons. In that case however, it would be ridiculous to even argue about "what is canon".

    By all means though, if you want the show to be canon and the books to be fanfinction, let it be so to you <3

    "Canon" is largely a fanmade term either way
    And you continue with the ad hominems in a fucking TV show thread, get lost.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i've said i'd like to have one of those bad dragon dildos shaped like a horse, because the shape is nicer than human.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i was talking about horse cock again, told him to look at your sig.

  15. #26315
    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    And you continue with the ad hominems in a fucking TV show thread, get lost.
    Could you point out the ad hominems to me? I believe to be tackling the argument, not the person. If you feel attacked by such, I am quite sorry but one does wonder about the validity of the discussion then.

  16. #26316
    Quote Originally Posted by Isilrien View Post
    While what you've said holds for those who read the books and watch the show in some cases, you are missing something for others who are book fans and watch the show (like myself; I started the books back when the first one came out) because you're focused on the assumption that some are arguing that they be similar or even the same. I don't see StayTuned saying this, and yet you seem to assume she/he was. He was talking about how the books and show might be different in the end and possible reasons why.

    Let me explain to you, from the perspective of someone who began reading the books in the 1990s and loves both them and the show (until this season), doesn't expect them to be the same or even similar, and yet who is disappointed in season 8. People who call themselves book fans are disappointed with how it dealt with the NK in season 8 because of what the writers did early on in the show. Namely, the show gave us 7 seasons of building up the NK/white walkers/others as an existential threat to all life on Westeros, gestured to the Prince that was Promised prophecy and hinted that Dany or Jon might fulfill that in the dealing with the others, and then jerked us around by not paying that off. It was in the show, and it was completely ignored because the writers didn't feel right and wanted to surprise us. Fuck them for developing this storyline, making us think that this fight would be more of a struggle than it really was, and then ignoring all of that previous framework. THAT is why some of us who were equally book and show fans are disappointed, pissed, or irritated.

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    I agree with you. I was led to believe that this conflict with the NK/others was quite serious and very challenging, but all I learned was that all of the previous buildup was glorified bullshit, an elaborate misdirect, or the writers didn't expect us to remember all they had written previously and so thought they could get away with it. Whatever their reasons, I remain disappointed at the show's outcome so far and irritated at the writers.
    That makes sense. I’m more disappointed by the show being rushed as it is, but never expected The WW to be more than a threat ment to gather the characters against a common enemy as a plot device. Never expected a deeper reason for them in the show, just an element that justifies certain characters working together (Jon and Dany, wildlings etc.)
    Last edited by Packness; 2019-05-08 at 08:37 AM.

  17. #26317
    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    Yeah and when it comes to 'canon' it is "first come, first served". If GRRM decides to write the story in his books wildly different than what the TV show has delivered, then his writing is just revisionist fan fiction.
    By that Logic, DragonBall GT is Canon and DragonBall Super is not and Star Wars EU and so on so forth.

  18. #26318
    The Unstoppable Force Puupi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kami Dende View Post
    By that Logic, DragonBall GT is Canon and DragonBall Super is not and Star Wars EU and so on so forth.
    GRRM doesn't have unique right to the GoT IP, unlike eg. Disney has for Star Wars.

    He sold out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Veggie50 View Post
    Could you point out the ad hominems to me? I believe to be tackling the argument, not the person. If you feel attacked by such, I am quite sorry but one does wonder about the validity of the discussion then.
    I gave you leeway already once, not going to do it twice. A mod already interfered in the discussion a page or two ago, telling people to NOT insult other posters.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i've said i'd like to have one of those bad dragon dildos shaped like a horse, because the shape is nicer than human.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i was talking about horse cock again, told him to look at your sig.

  19. #26319
    I like ghost, but complaining about him is fans wanting fan service..I see no reason he should tag along so much..some people wouldn't
    have been satisfied until ghost could ride on Rhaegar..

  20. #26320
    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    Yeah and when it comes to 'canon' it is "first come, first served". If GRRM decides to write the story in his books wildly different than what the TV show has delivered, then his writing is just revisionist fan fiction.
    How can you function in society being like this?

    Flaming isn't allowed. Infracted.
    Last edited by Faltemer; 2019-05-08 at 04:07 PM.

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