1. #28861
    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    Is this howland reed?

    Think so. Wonder what ever happened to his daughter
    Non nobis Domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam

  2. #28862
    Quote Originally Posted by Black Goat View Post
    It's just weird? It's just weird that some of you obsess over post count and how new an account is, as if it's important or pertinent to the discussion.

    Tell me, was Bran ever accused of failure for being pushed out of the window by Jaime, the Kingslayer? No. Would the realm sympathize with him, as the Lannisters weren't generally favored from time to time, and the information was well known in the context of the show and novels? Yes. Are those assumptions? No, those points can be demonstrated throughout the show.

    Other leaders and their adversity aren't relevant to the point I'm making. This is a GoT discussion, in a GoT thread.

    But by all means, defend the person who claimed Bran was autistic. That person really knows their stuff.
    Who is obsessing? It's a question and an interesting place for you to jump into the conversation for the "first time." Who am I defending? I am disagreeing with you and suggesting that you make unwarranted assumptions.

    Understanding historical leaders helps us to understand how human beings make decisions, which is relevant to this series which purported to offer a realistic perspective on the politics of a low fantasy world. Hilarious suggestion that the realm would give a shit about Bran, or that their sympathy would somehow lead to their making an untested, inexperienced child with no claim to the throne their king. Leaving out the fact that he can't walk, and the list of historical rulers who could not walk is not long. I'm trying to find any examples and struggling, though I suspect there must be at least one. Should the ability to walk be relevant to rule? Of course not, it's moronic, but humans =/

    I'm not unhappy with the concept, it's a great idea to have Bran as king, the writers just did absolutely nothing to earn it. Tyrion's speech should have been laughed at as hard as Sam's.

  3. #28863
    Quote Originally Posted by Dystemper View Post
    Think so. Wonder what ever happened to his daughter
    So yet another North representative to this ridiculous council?

  4. #28864
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaktar View Post
    Who is obsessing? It's a question and an interesting place for you to jump into the conversation for the "first time." Who am I defending? I am disagreeing with you and suggesting that you make unwarranted assumptions.

    Understanding historical leaders helps us to understand how human beings make decisions, which is relevant to this series which purported to offer a realistic perspective on the politics of a low fantasy world. Hilarious suggestion that the realm would give a shit about Bran, or that their sympathy would somehow lead to their making an untested, inexperienced child with no claim to the throne their king. Leaving out the fact that he can't walk, and the list of historical rulers who could not walk is not long. I'm trying to find any examples and struggling, though I suspect there must be at least one. Should the ability to walk be relevant to rule? Of course not, it's moronic, but humans =/

    I'm not unhappy with the concept, it's a great idea to have Bran as king, the writers just did absolutely nothing to earn it. Tyrion's speech should have been laughed at as hard as Sam's.
    Don't forget to most in the north, they thought Bran was dead and gone. Then suddenly shows up after svfew years and says he us the 3 eyed Raven. The north are supersticious I would bet many still don't trust him. Then you expect the rest of the kingdoms to accept him as king because he has stories. They would have been better off picking Gendry because " As a black Smith he knows what it takes to forge a strong Kingdom her DER her der"
    Non nobis Domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam

  5. #28865
    Quote Originally Posted by Flurryfang View Post
    Yeah, its wierd that they really just pushed the trouble of foreign troops in Westeros aside.... Like what about the Dothraki? Are they just roaming the countryside and killing while they talk? O.o

    And indeed, i really wanted to see that conversation where Grey Worm agreed to let Jon live. They really skipped something that could have been amazing, about all the lords debating how you deal with a queenslayer and a foreign army in the capital. Also, will the Dornish people really accept a northen king like that? O.o Like, generations of kings tried to get Dorne into the fold and it only works when there is a dornish in the royal family, yet they are alright with letting a cripple from the north, who have no relationship with any lord aside from Sansa, just take the throne? O.o
    Yeah, the moment Sansa says the north is staying independent, but Greyjoy and Martell doesn't ask for the same, especially being that they were only loyal to Dany. Dothraki just walking around like nothing is also really stupid.

    Just a lot of bullshit that makes no sense

  6. #28866
    The Undying freefolk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    That's the thing. Here's Dany's chain of thought;

    The world needs saving.
    I'm the only one who can save it.
    I need to sit the Iron Throne to do so, first.
    My people must have a reason to support me completely, or I will face constant questioning and rebellion.
    That support must come through either love, or fear.
    The people of Westeros do not love me, they reject me.
    Thus, to sit the throne, and use it to begin my conquest of the known world, the people of Westeros must fear me.
    So I'll burn King's Landing to ashes to show what happens to those who refuse to bend the knee. The rest will fall in line.

    She's making a sacrifice to further her greater goal. That "sacrifice" is the innocent lives in King's Landing. It still serves her goals, the same goals she has always had. That she has told people, time and again. They have not changed. Neither has Dany. It's just that, until recently, the people refusing to support her were even worse, so you overlooked her response. You tried to see it as a response to their specific villainy, when it was almost always about refusing to fall in line in support of her cause.

    So when presented with targets, like the Tarlys or the people of King's Landing, who aren't overtly villainous, her strategy doesn't change, because it was never about that.


    And before you cite times when she claimed it was about that, these kinds of leaders always have inspiring words. Hitler had inspiring, motivating speeches. They were bullshit, and you shouldn't have ever given them the blind faith you did.



    This is Dany after the bells ring and King's Landing surrenders. She's raging about what? Millisandre's execution? If she's insane then her actions don't need to be rational. There's no point in discussing them.

    If she is sane, it's pure revenge.

    She's definitely not making a cool and rational decision. She's not going to come up with a strategy when she's raging.
    .

    "This will be a fight against overwhelming odds from which survival cannot be expected. We will do what damage we can."

    -- Capt. Copeland

  7. #28867
    Anung un Rama Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freefolk View Post


    This is Dany after the bells ring and King's Landing surrenders. She's raging about what? Millisandre's execution? If she's insane then her actions don't need to be rational.

    If she is sane, it's pure revenge.

    She's definitely not making a cool and rational decision.
    Where did I ever claim that Daenerys was "rational"?

    I explained her reasoning, which is not the same thing.

  8. #28868
    Quote Originally Posted by Dystemper View Post
    Actually who is to say that Bran didnt worg into or influence Dany to burn KL to the ground?
    Well this is actually what I believe. We've seen that he's able to actually talk to people(DAD) and he can effect them mentally... but it's never shown again?

    Why show Bran has that power, if he's never going to use it? And who would ever know that he's using? Bells ringing, he could have been whispering to her "Burn them all" or even repeating all those memories to her right at the moment.

  9. #28869
    I would love to see it end with Jon and the wildlings being waylaid but children if the forest. Jon wakes up strapped to a tree in that stone circle with one of the Children coming at him with dragon glass.. that fades away to Drogon landing on a mountain and placing Dany down and around here are dozens of eggs. Drogon belxhes flames on her and the eggs and you see them start to hatch and Danys eye flickers. The end .
    Non nobis Domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam

  10. #28870
    Bend the knee and die by dragonfire, or die by dragonfire while running away...that's not much of a choice.

  11. #28871
    Quote Originally Posted by Byuiso View Post
    I don't disagree that due to his lack of emotions that he needs help and a lot of it. The benefit is that he can squash any attempt of a war or anything to harm the realm as he will know what is happening anyways.
    He *could*, but he won't. He could have saved Theon from a needless death, but he didn't. Because he no longer cares.

    If anyone or anything tries to harm the realm, Bran will not oppose it.

  12. #28872
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBogina View Post
    Yeah, the moment Sansa says the north is staying independent, but Greyjoy and Martell doesn't ask for the same, especially being that they were only loyal to Dany. Dothraki just walking around like nothing is also really stupid.

    Just a lot of bullshit that makes no sense
    As soon as Sansa said she was forming her own rulership of the north - all of the people from the north that were at that council should gtfo. They should have no say in who sits on the throne in King's Landing. Their Aye or Nay is garbage.

    If anything - Grey Worm and some Dothraki badass should have been invited to be on the council to have their say.

  13. #28873
    Or Dany takes the throne, Jon exiles himself to the North and Dany thinks she has freed the 7 kingdoms and starts ge rant about freeing the world, no one get to choose etc etc but a large fleet of ships with silvery white sakes shows up on the horizon, heading to KL. Over the ships are a couple dozen Massive dragons. Camera zooms in to the riders and they all have white hair. The Valerian's have shown up from somewhere in the West. Show ends

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Halicia View Post
    He *could*, but he won't. He could have saved Theon from a needless death, but he didn't. Because he no longer cares.

    If anyone or anything tries to harm the realm, Bran will not oppose it.
    All Bran would say is " it was meant to be. I'm going now ". And get zones out
    Non nobis Domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam

  14. #28874
    assassin infront of Bran about to kill him

    Bran "I will let you decide"

    *Assassin stabs Bran and kills the King.*
    Suri Cruise and Katie Holmes are SP's.

  15. #28875
    Quote Originally Posted by Deuse View Post
    Where did Jon even get a Sai? I've never seen a dagger like this on the entire show.

    He was wearing it the Entire season, Im pretty sure, if not for previous seasons. Defo wearing it the last 2 episodes.
    READ and be less Ignorant.

  16. #28876
    What burned me was the fact that we have zero idea "How" everyone found out that Dany was murdered ............ There was nobody else in the throne room at all and drogon took off with her body with there also being no way anyone could tell what if anything he was carrying let alone if she was riding on his back or not as she normally did, For all they would know is that the throne was melted and they saw / heard drogon fly off since visibility was total shit and he went off out over the ocean ................. My only guess here is that D&D decided that Jon would just go and turn himself over to Grey farking Worm and the Dothraki even after he just threw his tantrum about them slitting the throats of the lanister soldiers who had surrendered, Isn't hard to guess that they would have simply slit his throat or likely a much worse death in short order. Not to mention that jon had told ayra right before to go and wait for him to meet up with her outside the city ................... Horribly rushed storytelling here

  17. #28877
    Either the 3ER is an evil genius manipulating everything for his greater power or the writers are incompetent. I hope the former but suspect the latter.

    Oh well, one day closer to the books!
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  18. #28878
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    See, this is where you make excuses for her.

    The people of King's Landing weren't innocent, either. They refused to bend the knee. Exactly what the Tarlys did.



    You keep assuming some morality-based position for Daenerys' past actions.

    She's threatened to do exactly this, as far back as Season 2. She's threatened those same innocents. At Astapor, she orders the entire ruling class to be killed, men and women alike. She spares the children, but these children are now abandoned, without parents, without wealth or income, in a city filled with freshly-released slaves, none of whom will have any sympathy for their plight, and many of whom will take their past indignities out on the only targets remaining; those same children.

    And let's consider the aftermath. After liberating Astapor and establishing a council to rule it, that council is almost immediately overthrown by Cleon the Butcher, who set himself up as an "Emperor". And then shortly after that, Astapor and Yunkai are retaken by slave masters, and the old ways are re-established. At the time, Meereen is still free, but we can likely assume that didn't last long, either.

    She was never interested in lasting change in Essos. She was interested in pillage for resources and soldiers to fuel her campaign in Westeros.
    It's not convincingly anchored in the narrative (and trying to compare the Tarlys who were noblemen as well as soldiers to a million civilians is a stretch, to put it mildly). Apologies if this has been linked already, but it's pretty even-handed and thoughtful:

    ETA: And I would argue that there was very much a morality-based position for her past actions--even if it was ruthless and occasionally shocking, it was rooted in her conception of justice for the guilty.
    Last edited by Levelfive; 2019-05-21 at 08:39 PM.

  19. #28879
    Not that it matters, but the show went to shit the moment they deviated from the actual story; those two douche bags don't know how to adapt an existing story, never mind write a new one altogether.

    This was season was again pathetically average, if not worse.
    "Just flow with the go..." - Rickson Gracie

  20. #28880
    Legendary! Flurryfang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    That's the thing. Here's Dany's chain of thought;

    The world needs saving.
    I'm the only one who can save it.
    I need to sit the Iron Throne to do so, first.
    My people must have a reason to support me completely, or I will face constant questioning and rebellion.
    That support must come through either love, or fear.
    The people of Westeros do not love me, they reject me.
    Thus, to sit the throne, and use it to begin my conquest of the known world, the people of Westeros must fear me.
    So I'll burn King's Landing to ashes to show what happens to those who refuse to bend the knee. The rest will fall in line.

    She's making a sacrifice to further her greater goal. That "sacrifice" is the innocent lives in King's Landing. It still serves her goals, the same goals she has always had. That she has told people, time and again. They have not changed. Neither has Dany. It's just that, until recently, the people refusing to support her were even worse, so you overlooked her response. You tried to see it as a response to their specific villainy, when it was almost always about refusing to fall in line in support of her cause.

    So when presented with targets, like the Tarlys or the people of King's Landing, who aren't overtly villainous, her strategy doesn't change, because it was never about that.


    And before you cite times when she claimed it was about that, these kinds of leaders always have inspiring words. Hitler had inspiring, motivating speeches. They were bullshit, and you shouldn't have ever given them the blind faith you did.
    See i really like that chain of thought, but that thing is never really shown in the series. If we are to believe Dany's actions, we need to hear and understand her thinking.

    I think they really missed out by just having her stay silent, not have her talk with people about her thoughts and explain her reasons...... I think that is a major letdown of the last season overall really, so many people don't talk about their decisions and when confronted, defends those decisions for them to be rechallenged.

    So really, for people to go through character development, we really have to hear the character debate the development with themselfs or others. If not, then its not development, then its just a change.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Levelfive View Post
    It's not convincingly anchored in the narrative (and trying to compare the Tarlys who were noblemen as well as soldiers to a million civilians is a stretch, to put it mildly). Apologies if this has been linked already, but it's pretty even-handed and thoughtful:

    ETA: And I would argue that there was very much a morality-based position for her past actions--even if it was ruthless and occasionally shocking, it was rooted in her conception of justice for the guilty.
    The thing is also, even if you focus on foreshadowing, for every foreshadow about her going mad, you have had a foreshadow about her being good. Going by foreshadow, they went both ways really and that just makes it all end up on neutral.
    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

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