1. #28861
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    It would have equally ruined the Night King's character. The Night King saw at Hardhome that Jon was a threat (as he destroyed one of his White Walker Generals), so leaving Jon to his zombies was the right move.

    The only way that would work is if Jon somehow ambushed or cornered the Night King, at which point it would make some sense if the Night King was forced to fight Jon.
    Because mighty generals never make mistakes?

    He could have wanted robot bran badly enough. Or Khaleesi wipes out the undead army forcing him to lower from his dragon.

    Thats the creative writing part. Theres loads of options they could have gone with.

    Instead they went with the "themes are for 8 year old book reports, subverting expectations is so 2020 yo, watch this shit" route
    Suri Cruise and Katie Holmes are SP's.

  2. #28862
    Black Valyrians/Targs.

    You know. The people with platinum blonde hair, purple eyes and white skin. Oof.

    Also Matt Smith looks wrong as hell like that. His face was not made for that hairstyle.

  3. #28863
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    Because mighty generals never make mistakes?
    You're comparing a 8000+ yo old God of Death to some random "mighty general". That ruins his character. The Night King doesn't make mistakes, that's who he is, or who he was anyway before 8x03. Literally the only thing he lost before Winterfell was a bunch of disposable White Walker generals.

    He could have wanted robot bran badly enough.
    This is what happened in Canon. In reality he had no reason to show himself at Winterfell. He could have simply bypassed Winterfell to wreak havoc across the kingdoms, knowing that his Army can't lose so long as he lives. But his desire to personally kill the Three Eyed Raven got the better of him.

    In fact their entire plan was to lure the Night King into a trap by using Bran as bait.
    Some will tell you that the Light is the only path. The only weapon that can stop the enemies of Azeroth. But we see alternatives. Many roads, many possibilities, that are open to us. There will be those who doubt you. Who question your resolve, your ability to harness powers that have caused the downfall of weaker wills. Together, we will prove them wrong.

  4. #28864
    Quote Originally Posted by starstationprofm View Post
    Black Valyrians/Targs.

    You know. The people with platinum blonde hair, purple eyes and white skin. Oof.

    Also Matt Smith looks wrong as hell like that. His face was not made for that hairstyle.
    I mean royalty have had terrible haircuts since forever but ok.
    Suri Cruise and Katie Holmes are SP's.

  5. #28865
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    It wasn't foreshadowed though. D and d already admitted they decided on arya late on. Because Jon killing the NK "didn't feel right"
    Yeah, the guy resurrected by the Fire God killing the Ice God would be too silly in a story called " A Song of Ice and Fire ".

    Arya killing him was dogshit. She was never involved in that story.

    It should've been Bran or Jon. Bran warging into the dead Greyjoys and Theon's body and stabbing him out of nowhere would've been dope.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    I mean royalty have had terrible haircuts since forever but ok.
    https://images.immediate.co.uk/produ...resize=620,413

    He just looks wrong man. They bleached his brows too.

  6. #28866
    Quote Originally Posted by starstationprofm View Post
    Yeah, the guy resurrected by the Fire God killing the Ice God would be too silly in a story called " A Song of Ice and Fire ".

    Arya killing him was dogshit. She was never involved in that story.

    It should've been Bran or Jon. Bran warging into the dead Greyjoys and Theon's body and stabbing him out of nowhere would've been dope.

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    https://images.immediate.co.uk/produ...resize=620,413

    He just looks wrong man. They bleached his brows too.
    yea it looks weird but so did Mary Queen of the Scotts and King Henry the V.

    That is accurate to knobheads thinking they are above the common folk and are also scared of lice or suffering from some illness.
    Suri Cruise and Katie Holmes are SP's.

  7. #28867
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Jon killing the Night King would have also been stupid. The Night King was smart/wise not to engage Jon Snow in battle, since HE SAW AT HARDHOME that Jon was strong enough to take out one of his Generals. So he was smart to leave Jon to his zombie underlings. That's one decision I liked, because it shows that the Night King did not forget the loss of his underling at Hardhome.

    No one should have killed the Night King honestly, or if anyone had to kill him it should have been Bran after some weird mental shenanigan battle. When you introduce a character like the Night King who is supposed to be "so far above everything and everyone", killing him in battle is just stupid.

    Like imagine if Sargeras died at the end of the Antorus raid because the Vindicaar nuked him or some shit like that, no one would like it.
    Well, the show completely abandoned the whole Lord of Light/"Prince that was Promised" angle. One of the themes is all about how magic (dragons, white walkers, resurrections, prophecies, etc) is coming back to a world that has pretty much forgotten it. Even the show introduced various red priests other than just Melisandre and Thoros, but by the end they had all been cast aside and forgotten.

    You are kind of right. I don't think a mortal man (even one who had been brought back from the dead) going hack and slash against such a powerful magical being would have been that much better than a child defeating him with dumb luck. I think there should have been a stronger supernatural opposition to the Night King building on the whole legend of Azor Ahai reborn. I'm guessing D&D either didn't want to add more fantasy elements or just couldn't figure out how to set it up with the time limit they imposed on themselves.

    Instead they took a lot of build up surrounding various legends, prophecies, and character histories that they took from the books, hinted at it for the first several seasons, then crumpled them up, and tossed them in the trash.

  8. #28868
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    Well, the show completely abandoned the whole Lord of Light/"Prince that was Promised" angle. One of the themes is all about how magic (dragons, white walkers, resurrections, prophecies, etc) is coming back to a world that has pretty much forgotten it. Even the show introduced various red priests other than just Melisandre and Thoros, but by the end they had all been cast aside and forgotten.

    You are kind of right. I don't think a mortal man (even one who had been brought back from the dead) going hack and slash against such a powerful magical being would have been that much better than a child defeating him with dumb luck. I think there should have been a stronger supernatural opposition to the Night King building on the whole legend of Azor Ahai reborn. I'm guessing D&D either didn't want to add more fantasy elements or just couldn't figure out how to set it up with the time limit they imposed on themselves.

    Instead they took a lot of build up surrounding various legends, prophecies, and character histories that they took from the books, hinted at it for the first several seasons, then crumpled them up, and tossed them in the trash.
    The funny thing is that it wasn't even dumb luck that saved Arya, it was just the Night King's stupidity. He could have literally just tightened his grip to snap Arya's neck, instead he... just stared at her and her knife... Until he was gone.

    That's why Season 8 completely destroyed the Night King's character. Figuratively, because they took one of the smartest villains in TV history and dumbed him down significantly. Literally, because he shattered into pieces.

    But Yes the final season was incredibly rushed and badly-written. I'd say this is clear to 99% of the people on Earth. Like even if you think the season looked good and the plot points were fine conceptually, you can't deny it was rushed.
    Some will tell you that the Light is the only path. The only weapon that can stop the enemies of Azeroth. But we see alternatives. Many roads, many possibilities, that are open to us. There will be those who doubt you. Who question your resolve, your ability to harness powers that have caused the downfall of weaker wills. Together, we will prove them wrong.

  9. #28869
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    I don't remember that. Are you talking about the dude that was turned by the Children? That's the same Night King we see later.
    I thought Old Nan talked about it to Bran, or it may have been mentioned among the Night's Watch at some point, or something mentioned by Jojen Reed. I can't remember, so I could be wrong in thinking it made it into the show.

  10. #28870
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    The funny thing is that it wasn't even dumb luck that saved Arya, it was just the Night King's stupidity. He could have literally just tightened his grip to snap Arya's neck, instead he... just stared at her and her knife... Until he was gone.

    That's why Season 8 completely destroyed the Night King's character. Figuratively, because they took one of the smartest villains in TV history and dumbed him down significantly. Literally, because he shattered into pieces.

    But Yes the final season was incredibly rushed and badly-written. I'd say this is clear to 99% of the people on Earth. Like even if you think the season looked good and the plot points were fine conceptually, you can't deny it was rushed.
    I honestly took his pause as shock and curiosity that someone would be so bold, and that they almost got the jump on him.

    .... or maybe it was just all for shock value to give Arya her moment, who knows.
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    Fairy tales are more than true – not because they tell us dragons exist, but because they tell us dragons can be beaten. -G. K. Chesterton & Neil Gaiman

  11. #28871
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    The funny thing is that it wasn't even dumb luck that saved Arya, it was just the Night King's stupidity. He could have literally just tightened his grip to snap Arya's neck, instead he... just stared at her and her knife... Until he was gone.
    Apparently Benioff specified the Night King needed to be stabbed in the same spot where the dragonglass had been pushed into his chest. That's something nobody knew (apparently not even the NK himself). So yeah, it was pure dumb luck that Arya stabbed him in his one weak spot after getting caught. And yeah, they could have written it a million different ways, but the one they picked was "Arya appears out of nowhere, with no knowledge about how to kill the Night King or what would even happen to the other White Walkers, but gets super lucky and everything goes her way anyway".
    Last edited by Adamas102; 2021-05-07 at 08:17 PM.

  12. #28872
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    Apparently Benioff specified the Night King needed to be stabbed in the same spot where the dragonglass had been pushed into his chest. That's something nobody knew (apparently not even the NK himself). So yeah, it was pure dumb luck that Arya stabbed him in his one weak spot after getting caught. And yeah, they could have written it a million different ways, but the one they picked was "Arya appears out of nowhere, with no knowledge about how to kill the Night King or what would even happen to the White Walkers if she succeeded, but gets super lucky and everything goes her way anyway".
    Such a stupid ending to the main antagonistic force of the Westeros universe (A Song of Ice and Fire literally starts with the White Walkers). Honestly it wouldn't surprise me if GRRM is taking so long with the books because he just doesn't know what to do after the Show turned everything and everyone into a joke. Starting from the White Walkers, who were literally exterminated by a teenager.
    Some will tell you that the Light is the only path. The only weapon that can stop the enemies of Azeroth. But we see alternatives. Many roads, many possibilities, that are open to us. There will be those who doubt you. Who question your resolve, your ability to harness powers that have caused the downfall of weaker wills. Together, we will prove them wrong.

  13. #28873
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    Yeah. The nature of the show changed when it became the biggest show on TV and people were crowding out bars watching the next episode. It became event television needing big action and twists and stopped honouring the more realistic and unpredictable parts of the books.

    My personal grievance being the treatment of littlefinger. The mastermind sacrificed so sansa can have her "I'm a bad ass now" scene
    I don't see how anyone can look at and defend Littlefinger's actions with his precious Sansa (essentially giving her up to a known sadist to be raped over and over again), who he obsesses over in the book, which is what prompts a much more subtlle awakening in Sansa of her cunning tactics. Like, the minute he was like, "Yeah, I'm gonna openly marry you to Ramsay Bolton even though you've been on the run for the suspected murder of Joffrey," I knew the show was fucking done and dusted. It doesn't make sense for him personally, or politically.

    Of course, the show ended for me with Arya Terminator-running through the streets of Braavos, getting stabbed in the gut, falling into a dirty canal, and being fine the next day, and then Jaqen being like "lol I guess you're one of us now and can't even be detected again." And that was s5.....coincidentally where the last books leave off (IE, with Arya blind in the House of Black and White).

  14. #28874
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    I don't see how anyone can look at and defend Littlefinger's actions with his precious Sansa (essentially giving her up to a known sadist to be raped over and over again), who he obsesses over in the book, which is what prompts a much more subtlle awakening in Sansa of her cunning tactics. Like, the minute he was like, "Yeah, I'm gonna openly marry you to Ramsay Bolton even though you've been on the run for the suspected murder of Joffrey," I knew the show was fucking done and dusted. It doesn't make sense for him personally, or politically.

    Of course, the show ended for me with Arya Terminator-running through the streets of Braavos, getting stabbed in the gut, falling into a dirty canal, and being fine the next day, and then Jaqen being like "lol I guess you're one of us now and can't even be detected again." And that was s5.....coincidentally where the last books leave off (IE, with Arya blind in the House of Black and White).
    yeah the books were character driven and their choices while often surprising still made sense for the character.

    D&D abandoned that because they needed a villain for the season so it was Ramsey. Who can we give to Ramsey to make him more of a threat? The starks.
    Suri Cruise and Katie Holmes are SP's.

  15. #28875
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    yeah the books were character driven and their choices while often surprising still made sense for the character.

    D&D abandoned that because they needed a villain for the season so it was Ramsey. Who can we give to Ramsey to make him more of a threat? The starks.
    I mean, it was set up already beautifully in the books. Ramsay with his fake-Arya wife. I don't know if Littlefinger pulling Ramsay's strings was part of "D&D's outline they got from GRRM," but I find it hard to believe he'd ever let Ramsay lay a finger on Sansa, who is posing as his bastard daughter in the books. If that was an intended idea for LF to manipulate Ramsay, it would be to kill Stannis and then get Ramsay killed too, so the Starks (beholden to him) could take Winterfall back for themselves. And then they'd slowly have to figure out how he was playing them.

  16. #28876
    Actor Graham McTavish has joined the cast.
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    Fairy tales are more than true – not because they tell us dragons exist, but because they tell us dragons can be beaten. -G. K. Chesterton & Neil Gaiman

  17. #28877
    Are the two losers who ruined the last two seasons of GoT also onboard for this prequel, or have they been wisely removed from touching it?

  18. #28878
    Quote Originally Posted by Xorzor View Post
    Are the two losers who ruined the last two seasons of GoT also onboard for this prequel, or have they been wisely removed from touching it?
    D&D are not involved in House of the Dragon.
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    Fairy tales are more than true – not because they tell us dragons exist, but because they tell us dragons can be beaten. -G. K. Chesterton & Neil Gaiman

  19. #28879
    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    D&D are not involved in House of the Dragon.
    Music to my ears. I look forward to checking out this prequel now.

  20. #28880
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xorzor View Post
    Are the two losers who ruined the last two seasons of GoT also onboard for this prequel, or have they been wisely removed from touching it?
    I see people posting things like this - I see writers desperate for readers pushing out what some want to hear. With respect, it cracks me up. The reasons for people disliking the last two seasons seem trivial at this point, compared with what D&D left as their legacy - possibly the greatest television series ever created.

    I'm rewatching the series from the beginning, and the ending rings truer now with every episode that replays. The ending was fantastic, true to the story lines of all the main characters.

    I think what people really don't like is that the ending they got (that George RR Martin told D&D of, remember) wasn't the one they wanted, and because of that they channel their bitterness into finding slights with the show. "Too rushed"; "should have taken longer"; "wasn't true to the characters" - all critiques leveled at the ending. And all wholly without merit.

    The truth is that great series endings always upset some people - it would be almost impossible to say everyone can be happy with a great series' ending (I know of only one great series that ended well, without hardly a word in disfavor). And so we see with the critiques (if they can be called that) of the story D&D gave us. Desperate cries because those people didn't get what they wanted. But they did get what they deserved.

    And the world got a terrific show with a fantastic ending.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    Apparently Benioff specified the Night King needed to be stabbed in the same spot where the dragonglass had been pushed into his chest. That's something nobody knew (apparently not even the NK himself). So yeah, it was pure dumb luck that Arya stabbed him in his one weak spot after getting caught. And yeah, they could have written it a million different ways, but the one they picked was "Arya appears out of nowhere, with no knowledge about how to kill the Night King or what would even happen to the other White Walkers, but gets super lucky and everything goes her way anyway".
    That's because you're watching it through the eyes of the book, rather than the show. Viewing the show without the benefit of the books, Arya's killing of the Night King was perfect, even using the move she showcased to Brienne. Your rendition of the "one they picked" was true to the story line they laid out in the show.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    .... or maybe it was just all for shock value to give Arya her moment, who knows.
    Her killing the NK was perfect. "What do we say to death? Not today". Death was at the doorstep of the living, if Winterfell had fallen, the world of men would have died. And her story line was epic, even her ending with the Hound and which path she chose to take was perfect.
    Last edited by cubby; 2021-05-27 at 02:40 AM.

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