[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[Captainn]

Baelish is like that guy when you're playing Monopoly, who somehow manages to clean the money out of the bank by changing each rule ever so slightly so that nobody sees the change until it is too late.

That's what makes him the cleverest though. He went from absolutely nothing to controlling the governments finances. That isn't a small feat.

[Velshin]

That's what makes him the cleverest though. He went from absolutely nothing to controlling the governments finances. That isn't a small feat.

Indeed the only one who can rival him is Varys.

[Gallahadd]

Indeed the only one who can rival him is Varys.

Given what we found out about Varys in the end of DwD, I think it's safe to say Littlefinger is the only one that might rival him, not the other way around .

[Deleted]

That's what makes him the cleverest though. He went from absolutely nothing to controlling the governments finances. That isn't a small feat.

His ascension was described in the book as arrow swift, but its really easy to ascend when none else is actually interested in said finances as long as there is money coming in and the main boss(the king) is a massive spender.

The show Littlefinger is nothing like the book Littlefinger since the show version has to make deception obvious. Littlefinger isn't like Varys, Varys has a plan,goals and an endgame. Littlefinger got to where he is by constantly adjusting to the situation and by always being in the winning side. I don't think he has an endgame yet...

[Gallahadd]

Also most of Littlefingers money came from his brothels and frankly if you can't make money with hookers you're doing something SUPER wrong.

[apepi]

Indeed the only one who can rival him is Varys.

I think I still have a little faith in Tyrion, he has been shown how to play the game. If his father is any indication, I think he might funnily enough taken that talent from him.

It would have been easier to say "everyone dies" :P

Or saying who doesn't die.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Also most of Littlefingers money came from his brothels and frankly if you can't make money with hookers you're doing something SUPER wrong.

I thought most of the money came from Braavos?

[Gallahadd]

I thought most of the money came from Braavos?

A sizeable chuck of King's Landing's debt is to the Iron Bank yes, but most of Littlefinger's personal fortune comes from hookers.

I would also note, that while it's true Littlefinger worked his way up from nothing to become the master of coin, Varys did the same thing, while also being a foriegner .

[Deleted]

Somewhat of a crackpot theory, but could there be that there is a relationship between the ironbank of Braavos & Littlefinger?

As I am not sure if the bank has any goals, but I think beggaring the realm while it's in chaos could mean that the ironbank could gain a lot of power in the new dynasty.

[Frontenac]

Somewhat of a crackpot theory, but could there be that there is a relationship between the ironbank of Braavos & Littlefinger?

As I am not sure if the bank has any goals, but I think beggaring the realm while it's in chaos could mean that the ironbank could gain a lot of power in the new dynasty.

The Iron Bank already has a lot of power in the realm since the crown owes it a lot. It lend money because it thought it could get a profit from the interests. Now that the Iron Bank is unable to get paid by the Lannisters/Tyrells, it is helping Stannis instead. The only interest of the Iron Bank is that Stannis takes the throne quickly, stabilizes the realm so that it could at least get money from the interests. A beggared state would not be profitable for the Iron Bank, certainly not with the coming winter.

[Keyboard Champion]

Okay: speculation time! Who's gonna end up on the Iron Throne in the end? Daenarys? (Obviously that's what the writers want you to believe) Stannis? Baelish (Looks like he's going to, at least before he dies), or nobody? (Let's be honest; this probably the most likely ending).

No. Daenerys will see herself needed where she is. She will never cross the sea towards Westeros.

John Snow will be proven to be of Targaryen descent, maybe even Aegon's son - the infant that the Mountain presumably killed, and the rightful heir to the throne, rescued by Eddard from the Lannister's massacre of Targaryens, and not Eddard's bastard son. He will eventually get on the Iron Throne. He presumably dies in the last book but remember Melisandre can resurrect the dead like any red priest. Dying also makes his vow to the Night Watch null and void.

Tirion remains with Daenerys.

Stannis will bend knee to John Snow seeing that he is the rightful heir to the throne and Stannis is quite a man of principles.

All speculation though.

[Frontenac]

No. Daenerys will see herself needed where she is. She will never cross the sea towards Westeros.

John Snow will be proven to be of Targaryen descent, maybe even Aegon's son - the infant that the Mountain presumably killed, and the rightful heir to the throne, rescued by Eddard from the Lannister's massacre of Targaryens, and not Eddard's bastard son. He will eventually get on the Iron Throne. He presumably dies in the last book but remember Melisandre can resurrect the dead like any red priest. Dying also makes his vow to the Night Watch null and void.

Tirion remains with Daenerys.

Stannis will bend knee to John Snow seeing that he is the rightful heir to the throne and Stannis is quite a man of principles.

All speculation though.

I agree about Daenerys. She might be a real Targ and unify kingdoms, but she will probably do so in the East.

I would not be surprised if Jon Snow is really a Targ, although he cannot be the son that the Mountain killed. The usual theory is that he is the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark. "Promise me, Ned." Those were Lyanna's last words. She could have meant "Promise me to take the child as your own and never say who is his father, or Robert will kill him." I also agree that if he gets resurrected by Melisandre, it would put an end to his vow, so that he could become a more active player in the war. Though I believe is real place is to fight the Others in the North.

However, I greatly doubt that Stannis would bend before him. For Stannis, the rule of the Targaryens has ended, and he waged war with his brother to end that rule. He is the rightful heir of the Baratheon Dynasty. If he does yield, it will not be because Jon would be the rightful heir (he would still be a bastard, after all), but because Melisandre would proclaim Jon to be Azor Ahai. And even then it would be a test of faith for Stannis. He would be very angry against Melisandre... Maybe he would try to rebel and leave the faith, which does not seem to be very strong. It could end with Melisandre's death... or his own.

[Deleted]

Stannis wouldn't ever never bend the knee to another king. He is the rightfull heir for the Baratheon-Dynasty and the Targaryan's have zero power left, they lost the throne and have no rights to it.

However, I do think Stannis will ultimately choose to forsake the Iron Throne in favor of the Northern Throne when he has saved the realm from the White Walkers and is unable to continue on fighting for the Iron Throne/There isn't an Iron Throne to take anymore as it's destroyed.

[Deleted]

Stannis will bend knee to John Snow seeing that he is the rightful heir to the throne and Stannis is quite a man of principles.

Stannis will be Theon in reverse.

You`ll see his morals and principles decaying as winter gets harsher - he might succeed tactically in the battle with damned Boltons but he wont be king or even liege.

As for Theon - he might live just yet, he is the ''What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger''.
Wont be surprised of Greyjoy line along with (especially) Lannisters gets wiped out by the end of series.

[Deleted]

I tend to agree that the Greyjoy line is at an end. I don't agree on the Lannisters though, their line will continue throughout Tyrion and/or any member of their family as it's so huge.

The only other houses that I think can be destroyed are Arryn & Tyrell, it just seems so likely at this point.

[eschatological]

Hey, I'm back from a few weeks in Europe vacation. Doesn't anyone wish/kinda hope Sansa and Tyrion can make something of their sham of a wedding? Wouldn't that ultimately be Tyrion's biggest "fuck you" to his dead father? His father marries Sansa to him in hopes of winning the North for the Lannisters...but instead Tyrion disavows himself as Lannister and becomes a Stark in all but name, and Lord of Winterfell? Although that'll never happen, of course, if and when Rickon shows up.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Hey, I'm back from a few weeks in Europe vacation. Doesn't anyone wish/kinda hope Sansa and Tyrion can make something of their sham of a wedding? Wouldn't that ultimately be Tyrion's biggest "fuck you" to his dead father? His father marries Sansa to him in hopes of winning the North for the Lannisters...but instead Tyrion disavows himself as Lannister and becomes a Stark in all but name, and Lord of Winterfell? Although that'll never happen, of course, if and when Rickon shows up.

I'd prefer a Tirion/Daenays of that.

[eschatological]

Ugh, Dany is far too vapid a person for Tyrion, and I feel like Sansa is seriously going to come into her own soon. Tyrion/Sansa shipping commence, ultimate ASOIAF power couple. Tyransa? Sansion? I'm split.

[Gallahadd]

The problem with that is I have a feeling Sansa is going to go full bitch, under littlefingers tutelage (and just generally... Under him).

Tyrion has no time for a second Cersei, I doubt he'd end up with Dany either, she's stupid and a terrible ruler, he'd pick better than that.

Tyrion/Arya I could see, both give zero fucks and have a tendency to do the opposite of what people tell them to. However as I said before, I think Arya will end up with Aegon, Tyrion will be their Advisor. I don't think he'll end up with Penny either, just seems a bit too lame to have him end up with another Dwarf.

[eschatological]

I don't think Sansa is going to put up with Littlefinger's bullshit for too much longer. She's learning too much from him to be susceptible to him for much longer. Also, there's two major deviations from the show that were in the book:

1) Sansa is still Alayne in the books. As long as she's seen as Petyr's bastard, he can't risk trying to sleep with her (in theory, he's a little OCD about Cat, maybe it'll be his downfall, IE, someone catches him trying to sex up his own "daughter" and who she really is comes out and the Lords of the Vale rally around Sansa).
2) in the book, Sansa knows what Lyssa said about Petyr and Lyssa conspiring to kill Jon Arryn and start this whole Game of Thrones to begin with. That means Petyr was responsible for Ned Stark becoming Hand of the King, and indirectly responsible for his death (god forbid she ever finds out how much more directly he was involved by turning the gold cloaks against him). That gives her power over him. Normally, Petyr would just kill someone with that kind of knowledge over him (much like he did with Lyssa), but again, his obsession with Cat and (by surrogacy) Sansa, may be his downfall.

I can just imagine the deliciousness of Petyr dying at Sansa's hand as he realizes his own shortcomings in playing the game properly. To that extent, it might be possible that Sansa seduces him, to destroy him, but the white knight in me hopes that the 14 year old girl from the book won't be that corrupted to do something like that. That's just personal taste, though. Another potential downfall Petyr might suffer is to corrupt/defile Sansa, either sexually or just politically, and thus ruin her...only to be judged and hanged by Lady Stoneheart, the woman he obsessed his whole life over.