[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[Gallahadd]

Mace Tyrell is gonna bite a coin in Braavos, mark my words!

I'm thinking we're gonna see him and Trant in Braavos soon and Arya will at least kill trant.

Hell yes. I'm hoping that by the end of this season Arya has become Cat of the Canals and either in the last episode of this season or early on in season 6 she's going to get to cross a name of her list

[ItachiZaku]

Why are you not crying out how Margarey raped Tommen?

Not sure they had Stat rape "in those times" or.. europe.

[Wilian]

Not sure they had Stat rape "in those times" or.. europe.

Obviously not, but considering how Esch is rising ruckus over Sansa situation which at it's basic terms was simple consummation of marriage, a standard fare in Westeros where if you've married it's not legal until the act itself and Sansa agreeing it on every step of the journey, it's at the very least extremely hypocritical of him not be outraged of the other rape of this season.

Then again, it doesn't surprise me, we're talking of someone who's not willing to back up his own words after making baseless claims.

[Feali]

Other topic: will Rickon someday play a role again? And will he be recast?

[Wilian]

Well he hasn't in the books yet

[MikeBogina]

Other topic: will Rickon someday play a role again? And will he be recast?

I know GRRM said he liked how Asha(?) was done on the show and wished he had made more scenes for her. So we might get to see her and Rickon in the show before we're supposed to in future books.

[Deleted]

Other topic: will Rickon someday play a role again? And will he be recast?

He'll sit in the Iron Throne, with Hodor as its Hand.

[Feali]

In other news: GoT keeps breaking piracy records

[Deleted]

In other news; BREAKING sansa's maidenhead.

Too soon?

[KrazyK923]

Except none of those are rapes, except on the show, in the cases of Dany and the Jaime/Cersei scene, the latter of which was intended to be seen as consensual per the writers.

Did you just randomly forget about the second half of the sentence regarding sexual autonomy? Rape and sexual autonomy are not the same thing, and there are PLENTY of couples who end up together in this universe against their will. Some make it work, some don't, but I'd say its fair to argue that the majority of couplings we've seen in the show and in the books were not originally intended.

- - - Updated - - -

Again, people were upset with the Dany/Drogo scene too, specifically because she consented in the books.

And yet somehow the shrieking children were nowhere near this level. I wonder why. As I stated however many pages ago, I really do think its because back then nobody gave any fucks if some butthurt feelies warriors were angry on some terrible website. But apparently now it matters.

I miss the internet before them. Before the time where people being offended apparently mattered.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Crucified kid...
Mehh.

Ramsay consumates the marriage and you can hear the tumblr rage from across the globe

[Darth Belichick]

I was watching Hannibal yesterday (started it with a free month of Amazon Prime and damn is it a good show) and I watched a guy push in another guy's eyes until they popped. I cringed watching it and it was rough. Yet those type of scenes are perfectly acceptable in todays society and something that is actually off screen and only showing a face causes a HUGE outcry. I don't understand today's world. (Full disclosure, I don't care about how things are depicted, it's all fake. Just sayin')

[Graeham]

If people have been following the show for the duration that it's been running then they shouldn't be surprised by the violent or sexual themes. There's even a disclaimer before each episode so I'm not sure why people are surprised. I did find it difficult to watch, admittedly, but I'm mature enough to realise that it's fictional and didn't actually happen. I think there's a lot of people out there who can't separate fiction from reality which is where a lot of the criticism stems from.

[Deleted]

I was incredibly disappointed to say the least, that Benioff and Weiss decided to take the show in that direction with Sansa being raped. My problem wasn't that there was a rape scene - ASOIAF certainly wouldn't be my favourite series of books if that was the case (and indeed Jeyne gets things even worse than Sansa does in the books.) My problem was that they were willing to destroy a pre-existing character arc in order to include Sansa being raped.

Not just in the books, but in the show as well Sansa was put on a trajectory of finally claiming her agency and becoming a player of the game (albeit in a very hamfisted manner in the show). That's torn away here. And additionally the plot line which gets Sansa to Winterfell makes little sense. LF's plan is full of holes. So basically D+D wanted this rape to take place, and jumped through a lot of hoops to make sure it happened against all logic, whereas GRRM had the plot first and then wrote in the rape as a natural (and terrible) progression of events.

I remember interviews from years ago where D+D said that they were looking forward to doing a plot line for years, but would need to change things because a central character wasn't going to be in the show. It seems that this is what they were talking about. And honestly it's a little disturbing if that's true, that they've been plotting how to insert a rape scene for years.

There's certainly a lot to love about the Winterfell plot in ADWD. And Jeyne's rape is a very powerful and disturbing scene. I don't feel it would be right to say I loved it, but it was a great piece of writing. But is a rape scene honestly the most important thing D+D took away from it? They've cut virtually everything else - Theon's characterisation, the Northern lords, the mysterious murders. If Jeyne really could not be in the show, I would argue that they should have just cut all vestiges of her plot line. Why not instead focus on Theon's redemption, and on the plotting of the Northern Lords?

[KrazyK923]

My problem was that they were willing to destroy a pre-existing character arc in order to include Sansa being raped.

Except they didn't? Also there's that word agency again.

Its like y'all don't realize that Sansa made a series of choices that put her in that room with Ramsay on her wedding night. When she had multiple opportunities to not be there, and decided to do so herself in order to get her revenge.

So basically D+D wanted this rape to take place, and jumped through a lot of hoops to make sure it happened against all logic, whereas GRRM had the plot first and then wrote in the rape as a natural (and terrible) progression of events.

Right. The show added in a ton of storyline threads JUST to have Sansa get raped. Really dude?

I remember interviews from years ago where D+D said that they were looking forward to doing a plot line for years, but would need to change things because a central character wasn't going to be in the show. It seems that this is what they were talking about. And honestly it's a little disturbing if that's true, that they've been plotting how to insert a rape scene for years.

This is a level of paranoia that is almost unprecedented. Because you know there haven't been any rape scenes in GoT yet. Nope. There definitely wasn't one in the first episode of the entire show that was a big change from the books. Nope. Clearly they spent years and years carefully crafting the story JUST to get Sansa to be raped.

But is a rape scene honestly the most important thing D+D took away from it? They've cut virtually everything else - Theon's characterisation, the Northern lords, the mysterious murders. If Jeyne really could not be in the show, I would argue that they should have just cut all vestiges of her plot line. Why not instead focus on Theon's redemption, and on the plotting of the Northern Lords?

Could you let me know how the season ends then? Because you seem so informed on what the show writers were thinking and how the story is going to shape after the literal last thing we saw so far.

[Deleted]

Except they didn't?

Sansa has a different storyline in the books. And more importantly has different character development. She's supposed to be becoming a player in the game, and that's even hinted in the show with her heavy handed wardrobe change and LF telling her to win over the Bolton's with her charm. Instead of actually gaining some agency, Sansa sits about doing nothing more defiant than rolling her eyes and then she gets raped.

[Graeham]

I wonder if it's possible that Sansa will be killed and take the place of Lady Stoneheart? Then be the one to end the Boltons, Freys and even Littlefinger?

[KrazyK923]

Sansa has a different storyline in the books. And more importantly has different character development. She's supposed to be becoming a player in the game, and that's even hinted in the show with her heavy handed wardrobe change and LF telling her to win over the Bolton's with her charm. Instead of actually gaining some agency, Sansa sits about doing nothing more defiant than rolling her eyes and then she gets raped.

"Sansa had a different story in the books." This statement is almost entirely worthless. It means nothing to the story of the show, and whether it was good nor bad.

You completely fail to understand the agency Sansa had in willingly choosing to marry Ramsay and then choosing to remain in Winterfell when the show went out of its way to state that Sansa had an out through Brienne (While not knowing it was her) by lighting that candle in the tallest tower and she didn't.

Frankly you guys are the ones forcefully removing Sansa's agency in your warped view of the scene, not the actual show. You're ignoring her actual choices to bitch about something that isn't even true. Sounds familiar. Also kudos for continuing to pretend you know what they're going to do with the character, considering the literal last thing we saw from the show was the rape.

[Tragedia]

I think it is too early to condemn the rape scene. I'll make up my mind if it was needed in after a few episodes, but from the looks of the trailer Sansa is ready to play.

[KrazyK923]

I think it is too early to condemn the rape scene. I'll make up my mind if it was needed in after a few episodes, but from the looks of the trailer Sansa is ready to play.

Pretty much this. I'm glad so many people are apparently able to completely understand what a character will do in the future, but I sure can't.