[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[Dug]

Dany lights him up with her dragons and he's like...did someone turn the heat up? Where are my clothes? Maybe something like that. I can't imagine they are going to be on good terms at the start. Maybe that wouldn't work and he would just burn since he's half.

It's been shown that Jon can be burned in Season 1 but maybe they retcon it /shrug. Winter Blossoms theory about the Winterfell Crypts could be promising. One way or another the truth will come out, wonder how that will go over with the other Northern men proclaiming him to be a true Stark with "neds blood" running through him.

[Khadgar]

Maybe danny will give a order to one of the dragons to burn jon at some point then she finds out hes targ, can imagine it now flames engulf him the dissipate and hes standing in the buff looking confused

Perhaps Dragon's fire + Longclaw = true Lightbringer?

Like one of the dragon's tries to burn Jon but his sword not only shield's him from the flames, but transforms it into the Azor Ahai's legendary sword?

[Derah]

Who's ready to see Jaime backstab Cersei? You know it's happening.

That's gonna be pretty hard, considering that Cercei has Zombie!Clegane watching her back 24/7, and good luck trying to beat THAT thing with conventional combat.

Frankly, I don't think anything outside of a wildfire grenade or Dany's Dragons could ever bring that thing down. Let alone any man, regardless of skill or ability.

One would assume that all of that was either a) used in the battle for Blackwater, or b) removed anyhow after the mad king's threats were ended by Jaime. Silly writing.

Not necessarily. The mad king set up several caches of wildfire around the city, and only he knew the exact location of every single one of them. The cache used by Tyrion during the battle for Blackwater was just one of many, and it was clearly established that they depleted THAT ONE out entirely. While Jaime knew there were more caches stashed somewhere in the city, he just didn't know WHERE exactly, and nobody else knew about the threat they represented. Jaime figured that if he warned others of the existence of those caches, overly ambitious people would likely try to use them as leverage instead of disposing of them.

And since they were pretty well hidden, and most of the people who knew of their existence was dead anyways, he figured it was safer to just keep the secret. He wasn't counting on his mad sister digging them up, let alone using them.

[Dug]

Also really excited to see how Dany and Jon interract. The North really wants to rule their own and Dany is not down with other Kingdoms. Unless, they ask nicely, of course

[Molis]

Really have to wonder exactly how people in the universe will come to realize Jon is a Targaryen. Only Bran knows and I doubt people are going to be on board with believing this odd crippled kid who has seizures when he touches trees.

- - - Updated - - -



No I realize that, I've always assumed the FM masks were some sort of magic as seen with Jaqen and the Waif but Aryas methods seem more... physical? We also never got any scenes with training on how to exactly make the faces/harvest/use them as I assumed that was like end training for FM initiates but Arya never reaches that point. Maybe I'm just reading too much into it I just find it really inconsistent that Arya can use faces to the same effectiveness as Jaqen or that she would (presumably) kill an innocent servant to obtain one. But as someone else said, maybe the girl was already dead when Arya found her.

I know what you are saying. Trust me I look into to much also as a previous book reader. My wife tells me to stop it and I go back to enjoying the show.

I am going to borrow Magic Fuckery. TY

[Deleted]

If they keep these guys around for next season, i'll kill myself

[Damajin]

This finale was pretty good, yeah. Really only was bored with the Daario scene but that was short enough that it didn't matter. A few thoughts:

1. Cersei blowing up the Sept and Tommen suicide: From a practical standpoint of someone who is hungry for both power and revenge it was completely justified, and Tommen has always been a weak soggy little boy so no surprise he totally broke over this. I did think it was interesting when Cersei viewed his body how she looked at him with love, but also a great deal of scorn and disgust as to say "I went through all the shit I did for you and you take the cheap, petty and weak way out?" It was the look of someone who loves someone but also no longer has anything but bitterness and resentment towards them. Her funeral arrangements were curt and expedient and she was done with him and onto bigger things.

2. Tower of Joy/King of the North: Resolution on Tower of Joy was good to see, glad of that and we can see how if it all that knowledge makes its' way into the world especially to Jon himself. On the meeting of the North Houses, Knights of Vale, Wildlings and such it's slightly ironic that Jon bumbled his way through the Battle of the Bastards and is now being hailed as the King of the North. It reminds me of that quote from Braveheart: "Men don't follow titles, they follow courage" which certainly explains lots of the appeal of Jon Snow to them but at some point there has to be a reckoning for him not being a great military commander. Unless he's surrounded by the best and does the right thing and listens to them all that shouting was for naught. Again, Lyanna Mormont killed it. One of the best new additions to the show. The Sansa and Jon tension will now be ratcheted up, primarily I think by Sansa but magnified and aided by Littlefinger.

3. Dany scenes: For once she didn't really deliver a shitty acting performance, it wasn't top notch by any means but it was probably her best done episode in a long time. The Daario scene is my only complaint for the show because again, it's kinda slow and not that personally compelling to me but a small complaint and easily forgotten once it was over.

Good stuff to go into the next season with, lots of potential for some real lean and mean shows with basically everyone getting cooked by either Cersei or Arya in this episode.

[Ilir]

People should get this idea out of their head. Martin did specify it will be a bittersweet ending. If Jon is really Azor Ahaï he will die killing the Night King. Not happy on a throne.
Plus if the world gets to know that Jon is a Targ and he gets legitimized he is first in place for the throne, if you think Dany will be happy giving up her power to him just like that you are dreaming

I don't read the books, but thanks for letting me know ! I didn't imply she would give up her throne... My idea was : she gets the iron throne while he gets to still reign on the north.

[eschatological]

I must have totally read that scene differently than everyone. To me, it seems like Sansa really does support Jon. She's outright rebuked LF, if she was going to play him, she would have led him on a little in the Godswood. That scene where they exchanged glances, to me, indicated that they both recognized they were set against each other now, and they both recognized each other as dangerous.

While everyone is cheering, Sansa is looking at LF and thinking, "Oh fuck, now I have to take care of this asshole," while LF is thinking, "Oh fuck, I have to somehow manipulate this my way while she holds sway over both Jon and Sweetrobin." LF is on the back foot, especially since in their previous scene he basically put all his eggs in one basket, saying that they would rather follow a trueborn Stark lady than a bastard boy born in the South, and that totally backfired on him. He's misread the North.

[Paarthurnax]

I must have totally read that scene differently than everyone. To me, it seems like Sansa really does support Jon. She's outright rebuked LF, if she was going to play him, she would have led him on a little in the Godswood. That scene where they exchanged glances, to me, indicated that they both recognized they were set against each other now, and they both recognized each other as dangerous.

While everyone is cheering, Sansa is looking at LF and thinking, "Oh fuck, now I have to take care of this asshole," while LF is thinking, "Oh fuck, I have to somehow manipulate this my way while she holds sway over both Jon and Sweetrobin." LF is on the back foot, especially since in their previous scene he basically put all his eggs in one basket, saying that they would rather follow a trueborn Stark lady than a bastard boy born in the South, and that totally backfired on him. He's misread the North.

I read it the same way, everyone was cheering for Jon and Sana saw LF's look and knew he wasn't happy and she knew what that meant, thus why she stopped smiling.

[goblingirl]

That's gonna be pretty hard, considering that Cercei has Zombie!Clegane watching her back 24/7, and good luck trying to beat THAT thing with conventional combat.

Frankly, I don't think anything outside of a wildfire grenade or Dany's Dragons could ever bring that thing down. Let alone any man, regardless of skill or ability.

But Zombie!Clegane has a new toy... he's occupied.

[Deleted]

I forgot, the library in Oldtown looked amazing. Was still disappointing to see Sam go there with the sword, especially since Randyll knows about it :/

That scene in the library reminded me of sympathy lamps, university and Kvothe in general - Very awesome

[Sury]

The biggest problem with R+L=J is that 99% of viewers don't get it, all they see is baby jon, his mother and ned stark, there's no connection made to who the father was, Rhaegar Targaryen...

Always Lyanna...


the "big reveal" hasn't happened yet for most viewers.

The back and forth with Sansa and LF in the Winterfell crypts was part of the "previously on GoT" for goodness sakes. If any fan needs more of a hand holding than that, well frankly, they do not deserve to know then. I mean they literally refresh peoples memories for that singular purpose.

[rosebull]

I read it the same way, everyone was cheering for Jon and Sana saw LF's look and knew he wasn't happy and she knew what that meant, thus why she stopped smiling.

I've watched the scene about 10 times now, and thats how i've read it the first time and each time after. She definitely supports john, its littlefinger shes wary about. Shes smiling/smirking ( in a good way ) until she sees littlefinger hiding in the corner sulking and upset.

Shes said, idk about 3 times now "only a fool would trust littlefinger"

I think he's the next addition to the bodycount of main characters.

[goblingirl]

Yeah, being tortured by a mindless beast that will just keep following the order relentlessly is probably the worst. Moreso even than Ramsay.

Yep. That was a very strange scene.

Cersei is truly insane. The thing is, I find myself not as convinced in the tv show as I was in the books - about her mental instability that is. I guess it's a lot to do with the chapters being POV so you get more info. But as played in the television show, she hasn't been as crazy, and then suddenly she is utterly bonkers. It was a bit of an abrupt shift.

She's so dissociated that she basically came off as not caring that Tommen is dead. At least as played in the show, she appeared to care the least for him of her children though, so I suppose that's just the attitude show!Cersei would have.

- - - Updated - - -

I've watched the scene about 10 times now, and thats how i've read it the first time and each time after. She definitely supports john, its littlefinger shes wary about. Shes smiling/smirking ( in a good way ) until she sees littlefinger hiding in the corner sulking and upset.

Shes said, idk about 3 times now "only a fool would trust littlefinger"

I think he's the next addition to the bodycount of main characters.

The only thing about that is if you watch the little discussion thing with D&D after the show, they pretty much say that there is, and will be in the future, tension and conflict between Jon and Sansa. That COULD be them just jacking with the audience to make them think she'd betray Jon in some way, but then again, she could return to her core personality and decide she wants to be queen in the South (which doesn't necessarily preclude Jon from remaining leader in the North, in fact).

Unless a writer is really bad, core personalities of characters don't (and shouldn't) change. Sansa always wanted to be queen. If she could figure out a way to do it, without hurting her family (at this point, Jon), she probably would.

I suspect Littlefinger will be the "last human villain standing". I think Euron and Cersei will die before Littlefinger does. Mainly because Littlefinger doesn't openly court conflict (yet), while the other two are pretty much psychopaths and definitely are courting conflict and have open enemies. Dorne and Danaerys, with the support of Tyrion, Varys, the Greyjoys, etc, are coming for Cersei, if Jaime doesn't strangle her first. And Danaerys will squash Euron like a bug, unless he pulls some supernatural water-god McGuffin out of his hat and drowns her fleet. (ETA: In before some kraken destroying Dany's fleet eats the entire CGI budget for season 7, lol.)

Littlefinger is still sneaking around the sidelines offering "help" to people. I was a bit shocked he was openly honest with Sansa in the weirwood, because that's unusual for him. He trusts her, more the fool him. I could see him very near the end of the story, sneaking around, trying to make a deal with the Other side to leave him in charge of the decimated human population. He wants to be king that bad, and is that duplicitous. So yeah I think he'll be the last human villain to die.

[RobertoCarlos]

It didnt occur to me at the time zombie mountain would mindlessly rape the shame lady. Oh god Cersei you are so next level.

[lakisa]

That scene in the library reminded me of sympathy lamps, university and Kvothe in general - Very awesome

it gave me vibe like magic university in Diskworld

[Faesroll]

It didnt occur to me at the time zombie mountain would mindlessly rape the shame lady. Oh god Cersei you are so next level.

But did he? Can't really see much.

[goblingirl]

The back and forth with Sansa and LF in the Winterfell crypts was part of the "previously on GoT" for goodness sakes. If any fan needs more of a hand holding than that, well frankly, they do not deserve to know then. I mean they literally refresh peoples memories for that singular purpose.

Not only that, but R+L=J is now mainstream. You don't have to go to a fansite to learn about it. It's openly written about in articles on mainstream news sites these days. If you browse ANY articles about GoT, you see it. I have family and friends who don't read the books, and they know about it from articles online.

[Tonkaden]

For me it's not so much "not grasping it" as it is fun to joke about the context-less cuts that we sometimes have in the show.

I mean, yeah, it's only sensible to not actually show a scene with Varys sailing back to Mereen, but it's funny when he's on one side of the world and five minutes later on the other.

Especially when other storylines seem to progress in largely "real time" while others leap ahead weeks/months without notice.

You really don't have a clue about how much is between anything. No one ever says "well last week i was..." or "ya know, just 2 hours ago you did...".