1. #16341
    Jesus Christ. The plot required Rickon to die, so he died. End of story.

  2. #16342
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Jesus Christ. The plot required Rickon to die, so he died. End of story.
    Agreed.

    Worse than the 'Stannis is Alive' tripe.

  3. #16343
    We get plot demanded it, but wording it like that implies it was stupid , had no merit, and was shoddy in execution.

    Yes the plot demanded he die, but it's not like it is out of nowhere. If Ramsay never shot an arrow in his life, and Rikon was usain bolt quick, then yeah I'd agree that it was all just for plots sake. But this was one of the times this season when something remained consistent with the setup.

    If Tamsay wanted he would have killed the kid prior. Or killer the kid on the first shot. Or just had his archers rain down arrows once Jon www I range and killed them both.

    But this is Ramsay. He's a sadist. He wants Jon to suffer first, gather his men and be stupid, then have a bloodbath. Basically, shit that has been established since Theon still had a cock.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Fuck it. I'm too tired to fix these stupid damn typos. Ever since a certain update, my iPhone has been fucking up my spelling left and right.

  4. #16344
    It was in Ramsay's advantage not to kill Jon. Him being mad and charging like an idiot allowed Ramsay to surround them.

  5. #16345
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Puri View Post
    Well, there is still the prophecy that she will meet Arya again, so I rather assume Ser Davos is going to burn when he tries to stab her.
    Exactly, more pr0ufs that Arya will go to Winterfell, stop by in White Harbor n bring Manderlys with her, maybe kill a few Freys there. Assuming Toofattoride's son has been returned.
    Davos...he is responsible that Stannis attacked Mance which led to many casualties, many starved incl families that didn't make it to Hardholme, once there most got butchered by White Walkers...very few made it past the wall...Thx Davos!...Like he should lecture anyone...

  6. #16346
    Quote Originally Posted by Tempguy View Post
    It would look downright silly if he zig zagged and lived. If it was that easy then Ramsay would have been experienced enough to choose another gimmick.
    I don't think he should have zig-zagged and lived. But this universe has set itself up as a realistic, brutal place, where things don't live up to heroic expectations. Remember the other famous "shooting at a moving target" moment in this series? Where Edmure misses 3 arrows at a boat floating down a river in a straight, lazy line? It then sets up the Blackfish one-shotting it like a pro, but it also keeps consistent with the world, where cocky young men like Edmure fail and the men who live long enough to be grizzled old dudes like the Blackfish are somewhat capable. This also speaks to the lazy way Blackfish died just an episode before this one.

    If I was writing the scene, the set up would be the same. Ramsay would want to fuck with Jon hard, and he would play this game. Rickon would have zigged, he would have zagged, he would have ducked behind one of the flayed men. Ramsay would miss the first shot on purpose, to fuck with Jon and get him riding towards Rickon. By shot 2, he'd be trying. His smirk would start fading as one arrow hits a flayed man. One arrow hits where Rickon would have been if he'd kept moving in the same direction. Fourth arrow just nips behind his ankles because Ramsay's losing his cool. Then, in anger, Ramsay orders a whole volley just to kill Rickon right in front of Jon. That way, we see both the Bastards losing their cool, becoming emotional - but we see the contrast in that. Jon's losing his cool is in a typical Stark way, it leads to fear and bad tactics and nearly his whole force dying. Personally, I would have had Jon kneel by Rickon's body, trying to pull arrows out of him, Ramsay firing off another volley, Jon, snapping out of it, and running back to his now charging force, where he mounts up and leads the charge (counter to their plan). Ramsay, in losing his cool, becomes more sadistic, more crazy, more non-traditional, tactics-wise, but not more dumb. It also sets itself up as foreshadowing for how the actual battle turns out - Ramsay is cocksure and arrogant, but as the battle wears on, and Jon's forces can't be defeated, it fades, to the point where Ramsay recklessly tells his entire Umber force to do what they did - form a shield wall and push the Starks against a pile of bodies, when his commanders want him to just use that same force from a place of power, inside Winterfell. Enter Vale army, stage left, whose been there the whole time and who Jon has been using as the ace-in-the-hole while taking all the risk himself, possibly at Littlefinger's manipulation.

    The problem with a scene like the one above is that it requires writing, and dialogue. Ramsay to his commanders, who advise against him, Littlefinger in the war planning, etc. And that takes away from the non-stop carnage of the battle which pleases 90% of the television watching masses. That's all I want, personally, a narrative that makes sense.
    Last edited by eschatological; 2016-06-24 at 12:35 PM.

  7. #16347
    Rickon is like eleven fucking years old. Kids are known to be retarded, Stark kids doubly so.

  8. #16348
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Rickon is like eleven fucking years old. Kids are known to be retarded, Stark kids doubly so.
    That might be another effect of the show aging the child actors. Robb was barely 16 when he died, Sansa might still be under 15 depending on how we measure time in GoT, she got her first period right before she was married to Tyrion and it can't be more than a couple years since then. Rickon was literally a toddler (3? 4?) when the first book started, and can't be more than 7 in the books.

  9. #16349
    The Lightbringer Frontenac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    That might be another effect of the show aging the child actors. Robb was barely 16 when he died, Sansa might still be under 15 depending on how we measure time in GoT, she got her first period right before she was married to Tyrion and it can't be more than a couple years since then. Rickon was literally a toddler (3? 4?) when the first book started, and can't be more than 7 in the books.
    If they had chosen or had been able to produce seasons of 20 episodes instead of 10, we would be at the end of the third season, instead of the sixth. The aging of the child actors would have been less... stark.
    "Je vous répondrai par la bouche de mes canons!"

  10. #16350
    I can't care less about their book age, they seem of right age in the show.
    All right, gentlemen, let's review. The year is 2019 - that's two-zero-one-nine, as in the 21st Century - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of robed sissies.

  11. #16351
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    I want Sansa to die.

    Stupid fucking cunt caused the needless deaths of thousands on people.

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    Seriously I want her to end existing.

    I've never been this fucking mad at a fictional character before.
    I agree, I've disliked Sansa since the first episode! I bet she was hoping Jon would die so she could consolidate her power. With him alive, there will always be this push to legitimize him.

  12. #16352
    The discussion about zig zag is so cringeworthy it can actually top the discussion about dual wielding... I think you are all overthinking and overanalyzing it way toooooo much, to the point where it seems it's some kind of addiction to prove my take on this is legit, and your's not

    yes im 100% sure GRRM would spend 100 pages describing how rickon zig zag'ed, but its a show that NO LONGER is relying on the books (since there aren't any yet) so its logical it changed. lets appreciate the fact its a tv show, not a fucking 10000 billion $ super movie with the best writers in the world.

    and ofc 1000's of people together would write it better than two guys... doesnt mean there should be 1000's writers for every show.

  13. #16353
    We are just saying Rickon the character should have zig zagged, but he is too stupid to do it and died because of that.

  14. #16354
    Quote Originally Posted by keymil View Post
    The discussion about zig zag is so cringeworthy it can actually top the discussion about dual wielding... I think you are all overthinking and overanalyzing it way toooooo much, to the point where it seems it's some kind of addiction to prove my take on this is legit, and your's not

    yes im 100% sure GRRM would spend 100 pages describing how rickon zig zag'ed, but its a show that NO LONGER is relying on the books (since there aren't any yet) so its logical it changed. lets appreciate the fact its a tv show, not a fucking 10000 billion $ super movie with the best writers in the world.

    and ofc 1000's of people together would write it better than two guys... doesnt mean there should be 1000's writers for every show.
    I'm pretty sure that none of us are suggesting that it would have been "better writing" if he tried to dodge, or even that it would have been in-character for him to do so.

    When I say it, it's basically just on the same level as telling the girl in the horror movie not to open that door. I don't really expect her to hear me, or for the writers to say, "Oh, you're right, she shouldn't open that door! Lets write that in."

  15. #16355
    Quote Originally Posted by Jotaux View Post
    We are just saying Rickon the character should have zig zagged, but he is too stupid to do it and died because of that.
    I thought he died from an arrow thru the heart?
    All right, gentlemen, let's review. The year is 2019 - that's two-zero-one-nine, as in the 21st Century - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of robed sissies.

  16. #16356
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    But this universe has set itself up as a realistic, brutal place, where things don't live up to heroic expectations.
    Ofc a world with drakes and magic is very realistic.....some people cant get it into their had that a fantasy show is just a fantasy show....

  17. #16357
    Quote Originally Posted by Fummockelchen View Post
    Ofc a world with drakes and magic is very realistic.....some people cant get it into their had that a fantasy show is just a fantasy show....
    Oh look, that strawman again. There's a realism inside fantasy worlds relative to that world. As far as we can tell, physics in Westeros works like physics in our world.

  18. #16358
    Quote Originally Posted by Fummockelchen View Post
    Ofc a world with drakes and magic is very realistic.....some people cant get it into their had that a fantasy show is just a fantasy show....
    Whoosh.
    As Esch has previous said, a show sets it's own realism in the sense of their world. It's their job to be consistent.

  19. #16359
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    I thought he died from an arrow thru the heart?
    Which could have been avoided by zig zagging.

  20. #16360
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Jotaux View Post
    Which could have been avoided by zig zagging.
    Yeah, he would have taken one by the volley Ramsay would have launched at him
    Stupid discussion is stupid.

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