[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Nope, the joke is still on you . You stopped watching two years ago... But still hang out here to rag on the show? That's WORSE than people who bash the show but still watch.

He was prompted to talk about it; he didn't stick around for two years just hating just to be a hater. Besides, this is the SPOILER thread; people like Gorebelly who don't care about spoilers come here to share their thoughts on where the story is going and reflect on execution/story ideas.

[Sooba]

He was prompted to talk about it; he didn't stick around for two years just hating just to be a hater. Besides, this is the SPOILER thread; people like Gorebelly who don't care about spoilers come here to share their thoughts on where the story is going and reflect on execution/story ideas.

It's also the book thread, so book readers are welcome as well. Someone doesn't have to be a fan of the show to enjoy ASoIaF.

[Super Kami Dende]

First Episode back was a good one. I look forward to how this season turns out.

[Highwhale]

Personally I don't think GoT has gone the way of TWD or Lost. D&D no longer have books to directly adapt from so in that regard they are having to do a lot more creative work to turn the story into a tv show but at least they know where the story is going and have a definitive end in mind. With TWD it just seems like redundant bullshit to some degree and I lost interest in it a few seasons ago though my wife still watches so I sort of keep up on the story. With Lost, it was just a matter of them always trying to add another layer of mystery and questions each season with no real end in sight imo until they decided to just end it and tried to tie up as many storylines as they could. GoT at its core still knows what its trying to be and where its going I would say.

D&D is idiots. They rushing show and cut alot of book content on purpose. For example season 2 showed only 3/4 of A Clash of Kings. Season 3 showed last part of ACoK and first half of ASoS. Then they stating rushing show cutting in BIG pieces Feast and Dance. GoT easily could make it in 10 seasons if D&D wasn't dumb and lazy.

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They screwed themselves starting around season 4 when they cut the Aegon storyline and dramatically shortened the Ironborn and Riverlands ones. They weren't aware of why those were as important as they were. These cuts had knock-on effects as it forced them to truncate Dorne (which dovetailed with Aegon), which made a mess of that one too. Now the Ironborn seemingly have grown a huge power base ex nihilo. There are also still some folks who resent no LSH, (although that is the least important of the three, tbh). Each of those in turn have implications for other storylines (Tyrion, Dany, Cersei, etc etc.) To substitute, they started some Grey-worm and Missandei stuff, which has gone precisely nowhere.

They had all the material they needed to keep the seasons longer *and* add a couple more, all while maintaining their original vigor because they'd have been keeping with the books (reducing effort required to convert any individual week). The extra year would also mean that the 6th book would've been out by the time they got to that material, so they'd have been able to use that too. It wouldn't have been until book 7 that they'd have gotten to the point of needing to generate truly "new" material, by which point the direction of storylines would have been far clearer. Instead, they made the aforementioned cuts then suddenly found themselves in a tougher slog because they had to generate material "from scratch" far sooner than necessary.

All that being said, I still think this show is miles better than most other stuff on TV, so I don't mind as much. There's just that tiny nagging thought that it could've risen to even greater heights.

Sorry for multiple edits, took me a bit to streamline my thoughts.

So f*cking true. /thread

[Deleted]

Had no idea who ed sheeran or whomever is. Did a small part which was alright, don't understand the comotion..

Apparetly he sang that song at end of The Hobbit, i always assumed the singer was the actor martin freeman cuz it sounded like him...

[Zayv]

Had no idea who ed sheeran or whomever is. Did a small part which was alright, don't understand the comotion..

If you're one of the unfortunate guys who is surrounded by Top 40 drones, I can understand how the mere sight of Sheeran can send you into a arage

[Frontenac]

They screwed themselves starting around season 4 when they cut the Aegon storyline and dramatically shortened the Ironborn and Riverlands ones. They weren't aware of why those were as important as they were. These cuts had knock-on effects as it forced them to truncate Dorne (which dovetailed with Aegon), which made a mess of that one too. Now the Ironborn seemingly have grown a huge power base ex nihilo. There are also still some folks who resent no LSH, (although that is the least important of the three, tbh). Each of those in turn have implications for other storylines (Tyrion, Dany, Cersei, etc etc.) To substitute, they started some Grey-worm and Missandei stuff, which has gone precisely nowhere.

They had all the material they needed to keep the seasons longer *and* add a couple more, all while maintaining their original vigor because they'd have been keeping with the books (reducing effort required to convert any individual week). The extra year would also mean that the 6th book would've been out by the time they got to that material, so they'd have been able to use that too. It wouldn't have been until book 7 that they'd have gotten to the point of needing to generate truly "new" material, by which point the direction of storylines would have been far clearer. Instead, they made the aforementioned cuts then suddenly found themselves in a tougher slog because they had to generate material "from scratch" far sooner than necessary.

All that being said, I still think this show is miles better than most other stuff on TV, so I don't mind as much. There's just that tiny nagging thought that it could've risen to even greater heights.

Sorry for multiple edits, took me a bit to streamline my thoughts.

They had all the material for a longer show alright. The problem is that they don't have the money and the time to do it. They don't have the money for more actors, more episodes, more filming locations, more special effects. They don't have time to shoot 20 episodes per season (it already takes them a year to turn ten episodes) and they cannot have 10-15 seasons to cover all the storylines. They also don't have the time to wait for G.R.R. Martin to complete the two last books. If they did, Bran's actor would be in his late 20s with kids of his own before the show is over.

The main problem is that they have decided, and G.R.R. Martin has accepted, to produce a tv show on ASoIaF while the whole story hasn't been completed yet. If we can call that a problem. Because I enjoy the show, despite its flaws, and I enjoy the books, despite their flaws.

[Ilikegreenfire]

I think Arya is going to kill those Lannister soldiers... or at least one of them so she can get his face. She had said she was on her way to kill the Queen, so she'll need a disguise. I know people think the scene was done to humanize the soldiers and possibly to show that Arya isn't so ruthless, but it just seems off to me.

The moment she rode up to them, instead of avoiding them, tells me she needed something from them. She put on the innocent girl act to make them feel she wasn't a threat. Why? Acting tough probably would have been more beneficial to her if she thought they could hurt her.

Also, watching her expressions and body language, I felt she was feeling guilt because she planned to kill them. However, they turned out to be so welcoming and nice to her. Like, she likely expected them to do something bad to her (rape, etc), and was caught off guard to see that they were just good guys.

The Lannister camp is going to be a turning point for her, or one of them anyway i'm not sure if she knows about Jon and Sansa yet but that plus all the Lannisters talking about home will probably push her back.

[Deleted]

If you're one of the unfortunate guys who is surrounded by Top 40 drones, I can understand how the mere sight of Sheeran can send you into a arage

To be fair, Sheeran played himself, and destroyed all immersion. It was unsubtle and brutal.

[Independent voter]

Maybe Euron's gift to Cersei is the location of the only Hot Topic in Westeros.


Pretty good episode regardless though

I think the gift will be the dragon horn.

[Ilikegreenfire]

To be fair, Sheeran played himself, and destroyed all immersion. It was unsubtle and brutal.

Which one was he? The black haired one? They were just a bunch of guys chilling around a campfire singing talking about home and about how shitty kingslanding was nothing seemed out of place to me.

[Netherspark]

I think Arya is going to kill those Lannister soldiers... or at least one of them so she can get his face. She had said she was on her way to kill the Queen, so she'll need a disguise. I know people think the scene was done to humanize the soldiers and possibly to show that Arya isn't so ruthless, but it just seems off to me.

The moment she rode up to them, instead of avoiding them, tells me she needed something from them. She put on the innocent girl act to make them feel she wasn't a threat. Why? Acting tough probably would have been more beneficial to her if she thought they could hurt her.

Also, watching her expressions and body language, I felt she was feeling guilt because she planned to kill them. However, they turned out to be so welcoming and nice to her. Like, she likely expected them to do something bad to her (rape, etc), and was caught off guard to see that they were just good guys.

I think Arya wanted to kill them, simply for being Lannister soldiers, but just can't find a reason to.

But something feels not quite right about them. I actually have a feeling they will suddenly turn and try to rape her... that's when Nymeria and her wolves will charge in and tear them to pieces.

[Jotaux]

To be fair, Sheeran played himself, and destroyed all immersion. It was unsubtle and brutal.

I don't know what he looks like and didn't even know he was in the episode till someone made a big deal out of it.

[Frontenac]

I think Arya wanted to kill them, simply for being Lannister soldiers, but just can't find a reason to.

But something feels not quite right about them. I actually have a feeling they will suddenly turn and try to rape her... that's when Nymeria and her wolves will charge in and tear them to pieces.

Or a pack of wolves attacks and kills them. Arya tries to fight back, but she falls down and just when a wolf is about to jump for the kill, a large wolf intervenes to stop her pack. That's when Arya recognizes Nymeria and decides to go back to her own pack. I don't believe Nymeria will follow her, though.

[Sooba]

I think Arya wanted to kill them, simply for being Lannister soldiers, but just can't find a reason to.

But something feels not quite right about them. I actually have a feeling they will suddenly turn and try to rape her... that's when Nymeria and her wolves will charge in and tear them to pieces.

This is reinforced rather plainly when the brewer mentions his mother's advice - "be nice to strangers and they'll be nice to you." Edit: the first sentence, not the second portion. I'm not so sure they're actually going to get that aggressive. Maybe one of them? It seemed to me the point was to humanize the "rest of" the Lannister army. On the other hand there's zero need for the guys to get aggressive with Arya before the wolves attempt to attack. They're wolves after all. At which point the soldiers have a minor freak-out moment when she seemingly has the capacity to pacify a wolf pack.

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They had all the material for a longer show alright. The problem is that they don't have the money and the time to do it. They don't have the money for more actors, more episodes, more filming locations, more special effects. They don't have time to shoot 20 episodes per season (it already takes them a year to turn ten episodes) and they cannot have 10-15 seasons to cover all the storylines. They also don't have the time to wait for G.R.R. Martin to complete the two last books. If they did, Bran's actor would be in his late 20s with kids of his own before the show is over.

The main problem is that they have decided, and G.R.R. Martin has accepted, to produce a tv show on ASoIaF while the whole story hasn't been completed yet. If we can call that a problem. Because I enjoy the show, despite its flaws, and I enjoy the books, despite their flaws.

You're overstating/strawmanning/misconstruing. An additional one/two years would have delayed sufficiently to have the next book come out. It also would have added enough time to properly flesh out the storylines I mentioned - no need for extra episodes per season, or additional locations. (Most of the concepts I'm speaking of already have set locations.) I also didn't state that they needed to wait for both of the last books to come out. Please reread my last message. You really haven't responded to it, but some odd misconstruction of it.

[Ilikegreenfire]

This is reinforced rather plainly when the brewer mentions his mother's advice - "be nice to strangers and they'll be nice to you."

I took it as more of we'll give her some rabbit so she doesn't kill us in our sleep.

[Frontenac]

This is reinforced rather plainly when the brewer mentions his mother's advice - "be nice to strangers and they'll be nice to you."

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You're overstating/strawmanning/misconstruing. An additional one/two years would have delayed sufficiently to have the next book come out. It also would have added enough time to properly flesh out the storylines I mentioned - no need for extra episodes per season, or additional locations. (Most of the concepts I'm speaking of already have set locations.) I also didn't state that they needed to wait for both of the last books to come out.

They would need extra episodes, or longer episodes or extra seasons, or all of the above. More characters means more screentime to each new character. We already have a hard time to keep track of the already too numerous characters in the show. If you add Aegon, you also add new locations at Volantis and Storm's End (and probably the Stormlands). And new characters too. And in the mean time Bran, Arya, Tommen, well, all the "kids" will get older. So much that the story would be unbelievable in the end. It would drag the action and it would be hard to keep track of all these characters. You would see a character for 5 minutes in Episode 1 and wait for 2 or 3 episodes to see him again, and by the end of the season in Episode 10, his story arc would not have advanced much. Because the show would have too many story arcs to follow. After 9-10 seasons, the Night King would still not have reached the Wall... He's a slow (white) walker...

Concerning the number of seasons. You're saying that they should have added one or two seasons to allow Martin to finish Winds of Winter. We will have 8 seasons. That means that you want 9 or 10 seasons, only to cover the events of the first five books. D&D remained rather faithful to the books for the first four seasons, which covered AGoT, ACoK and ASoS. Which means that, if they did as you want, it would have taken 5 to 6 seasons to cover the events of AFfC and ADoD alone. How many seasons would you want for Winds of Winter and the last book? So, no, 10 to 15 seasons to do as you want is not overstated.

And it would be too long, and too costy for the producers. And I bet the actors would be bored to death. Some may already want to do something else. "Kill me! Oh please, kill my character! I can't stand it anymore!"

[Sooba]

/Snip

Concerning the number of seasons. You're saying that they should have added one or two seasons to allow Martin to finish Winds of Winter. We will have 8 seasons. That means that you want 9 or 10 seasons, only to cover the events of the first five books. D&D remained rather faithful to the books for the first four seasons, which covered AGoT, ACoK and ASoS. Which means that, if they did as you want, it would have taken 5 to 6 seasons to cover the events of AFfC and ADoD alone. How many seasons would you want for Winds of Winter and the last book? So, no, 10 to 15 seasons to do as you want is not overstated.
/Snip"

The first few sentences would only be true if Martin's 6th book doesn't come out until after the show is over. But this is neither here nor there. I'm talking about prepping from the beginning and adding storylines that themselves were full of action and intrigue, not dragging out two books for the sake of dragging them out. The purpose wasn't about trying to delay as much as possible, but rather introducing storylines that have an impact on the story. A Season and a half extra, max. Something laid out beforehand, because it's fairly clear they've been flying by the seat of their pants.

At this point you've repeatedly attributed to my statements things I didn't say. I get argumentum ad absurdum, but you've strayed into strawman territory repeatedly. And I think it's because you've misunderstood intent. Again, the point isn't to drag this out. Had they added the storylines I mentioned, it would've added another season. Another season of easy conversion instead of having to work from scratch. Giving Martin more time to have had downstream material more fleshed out as well. (Particularly since they're not constrained to waiting only on a book, but can get chapters as they're completed.) That's it.

Your money argument is oddly conceived. They wouldn't be making this if it was running at a deficit. They wouldn't be thinking of 4-5 spinoff projects if it was not profitable. An extra season is extra cost, yes. It's also more revenue. An extra season wouldn't suddenly be magically more expensive.

And yes, actor age can get awkward. That would also require forethought and be taken care of through casting. Had they casted slightly younger, the actors would have grown into the ages they are now. Less problematic.

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I took it as more of we'll give her some rabbit so she doesn't kill us in our sleep.

That's the subtext for her. They have no clue that she's an assassin and seem genuinely curious as to how she survived this long alone. There's no way that their motivation could be immediate self-protection seeing as they don't know who she is. Although I think you're right in the general sense. ("be nice to people and they won't kill you in your sleep") That's probably what you meant, though. (?)

Also, I was referencing his first sentence and not his second paragraph. I've edited for clarity since it obviously wasn't clear. I should've been more complete in my answer the first time. Sorry for the ambiguity.

[Highwhale]

Do you really want to see three straight episodes of Brienne walking around in the forest looking for Arya, then have her disappear into a 5 year cliffhanger? Cause that's a feast for crows.

I am talking about cutting Ironborn and Riverlands plots and butchering Dorne storyline. Hell we don't even heard about Ashara and only heard about Arthur Dayne in 4 (!) season (Also Dawn 1H sword? What the fucking shit). Also completely wiped out Jon Connington and Aegon. Believe me if made properly Dorne/Ironborn/North shenanigans with Jayne Poole and Boltons could make great 2-3 seasons.

Also i will never forgive D&D for lame death of Barristan and complete bullshiting Stannis character. Their bias toward Jon and Dany so f*cking annoying.

[ItachiZaku]

I refuse to listen to Top 40 music, so I didnt even know what Ed Sheeran looked like. But I imagine if you did, it could be distracting. But if you love him, you wouldn't care.

What about when Conor McGregor shows up?

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Also, watching her expressions and body language, I felt she was feeling guilt because she planned to kill them. However, they turned out to be so welcoming and nice to her. Like, she likely expected them to do something bad to her (rape, etc), and was caught off guard to see that they were just good guys.

That's something I struggle with on the daily. Being Native, I despise the US government and military, as they are the ones responsible for massacring my people. The Kings and the presidents and the generals give the orders, yet the basic soldier is the one to pull the trigger. Who should be responsible? One of my favorite movie scenes was in X-Men First Class, when Magneto stops the missiles on the beach and is just... waiting. Charles starts in on him on the men are honest, good men who are just following orders, which is what makes Mags decide that they did, indeed, need to die. "I've been at the mercy of men 'just following orders", Never again."

For Arya, if Walder Frey, Jaime Lannister, anyone told those men to cut her down, they would. If it is just two soldiers on a road going home, would they still? I don't hate my buddy cuz he was in the Navy. Hell, I was in the Army (I had my motivations.). Maybe Arya was blinded by revenge and suddenly had a moment to exhale, since she's that much closer to her goal... and also now knows her kin is still alive.