[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[Mavick]

WTF?

The undead are the fucking distraction? Are you fucking stupid your imbecible little shit?

The undeads were the whole point of the story and not the fucking throne ffs.

In point of fact, apparently not.

[Minikin]

Hi all,

I've just renewed my MMO account after years of lurking to reply to this person. A Rudis is a wooden sword that was gifted to a slave (usually a gladiator) after they had been granted manumission - or freed from slavery. The Rudis was a physical manifestation of the slave not using their weapon for killing and represented their freedom. This poster is trying to come across as educated in terms of arms, and I guess he is referring to the Pugio, the Roman military dagger. So just to shoot this person down after refuting all other posts, I agree with their initial suggestion about using a smaller bladed weapon, but a Rudis would be totally impractical for what they suggest.

Go Birds!!

Edit: Don't know how to tag someone, but @Weeps for this.

Edit 2: This is about ancient Rome.

Lol this is actually pretty awesome.

[IIamaKing]

People are still dying and going to die and Night King may yet return or the new one is going to emerge, sooner or later.
Also, I don't think ALL the white walkers in existence were in that army. Some might have stayed beyond the wall in their graves as a reserve or just remained inactive.

So, it's only logical that someone is gonna be still needed to stand in the border between Life and Death and guard the living.

Just remember "our" Lich King. There must always be a Lich King.

Lol, nothing like this will happen, the great threat is dealt with.

[urasim]

People are still dying and going to die and Night King may yet return or the new one is going to emerge, sooner or later.
Also, I don't think ALL the white walkers in existence were in that army. Some might have stayed beyond the wall in their graves as a reserve or just remained inactive.

So, it's only logical that someone is gonna be still needed to stand in the border between Life and Death and guard the living.

Just remember "our" Lich King. There must always be a Lich King.

No. The dead are gone. This is nothing like the lich king. When the night king died, all the dead died. The only way to get another night king is to have a child of the forest use their magic to make one. The children of the forest are ALL gone. There's no more night kings.

[Byuiso]

I imagine part of the next episode is going to be the aftermath and build up for "The Last War" and episode 4 will be the "The Last War" and the aftermath of that too followed by the finale episode. Whether it is Jon, Gendry, Dany, Tyrion or whoever else will be crowned as ruler and lord protector.

"The Great War" is supposed to be GOT defining war, the most anticipated war. Life vs Death, Fire vs Ice. Rhllor vs The Great Other. "The Last War" probably wont be anything to this magnitude as it is more conventional... no mystical and fabled beings in this one...except the dragons.

But knowing Cersei, she is mad and psychotic she will probably destroy Kings Landing before she loses like the Mad King wanted to do before Jaime killed him. I can see Jaime stopping her too.

[IIamaKing]

I imagine part of the next episode is going to be the aftermath and build up for "The Last War" and episode 4 will be the "The Last War" and the aftermath of that too followed by the finale episode. Whether it is Jon, Gendry, Dany, Tyrion or whoever else will be crowned as ruler and lord protector.

"The Great War" is supposed to be GOT defining war, the most anticipated war. Life vs Death, Fire vs Ice. Rhllor vs The Great Other. "The Last War" probably wont be anything to this magnitude as it is more conventional... no mystical and fabled beings in this one...except the dragons.

Practically speaking, w/e conflict we get in the remaining 3 shows will be lesser than what we saw Sunday. The Long Night was a 55 day shoot, it was built as the largest battle yet. There is nothign like that left. They didnt have 2 55 days filming battle scenes.

[Minikin]

wasn't there something about the crypts being magical and so preserving the bodies?

I think talking thrones on youtube suggested that the book presented the iron swords as a deterrent to the spirit going lose. I think it was just a theory.

[Celista]

No. The dead are gone. This is nothing like the lich king. When the night king died, all the dead died. The only way to get another night king is to have a child of the forest use their magic to make one. The children of the forest are ALL gone. There's no more night kings.

There is a lot of correlation between GoT and WoW, there are several quests in Northrend that clearly allude to A Song of Ice and Fire. The resemblance is not a coincidence.

[IIamaKing]

There is a lot of correlation between GoT and WoW, there are several quests in Northrend that clearly allude to A Song of Ice and Fire. The resemblance is not a coincidence.

Lol, WoW is filled with Pop culture references, just because WoW has some nods, doesn't mean the lore of GoT will follow. DnD are done with the NK, They used him to thin Danys army so that conflict would have real stakes, opposed to her just rolling over KL.

[Byuiso]

No. The dead are gone. This is nothing like the lich king. When the night king died, all the dead died. The only way to get another night king is to have a child of the forest use their magic to make one. The children of the forest are ALL gone. There's no more night kings.

I can honestly see Bran going back and messing with the timelines to bring the NK back claiming that the NK is a necessity. I don't think it will happen but would I be surprised if it did? No.

Also Dany would've steamrolled Cersei if not for this war. It made it a bit more fair but 2 dragons is still 2 dragons.

[MakeMeLaugh]

But knowing Cersei, she is mad and psychotic she will probably destroy Kings Landing before she loses like the Mad King wanted to do before Jaime killed him. I can see Jaime stopping her too.

You mean Arya wearing Jaime's face is gonna kill Cersei. Then she's gonna wear Clegane's face and kill The Mountain too.

10/10 writing right here, in line with the battle for Winterfell, they should hire me.

[Byuiso]

You mean Arya wearing Jaime's face is gonna kill Cersei. Then she's gonna wear Clegane's face and kill The Mountain too.

10/10 writing right here, in line with the battle for Winterfell, they should hire me.

Now would you be surprised if Ayra kills Cersei, The Mountain and Euron? I wouldn't she can do anything now.

If Ayra could do this, you know sneak attack the Night King imagine what Jaquen could do.

[Celista]

Lol, WoW is filled with Pop culture references, just because WoW has some nods, doesn't mean the lore of GoT will follow. DnD are done with the NK, They used him to thin Danys army so that conflict would have real stakes, opposed to her just rolling over KL.

I dunno, I think that there's an argument to be made that the NK took more of a focus in the series because the Lich King was so popular among gaming enthusiasts. I don't think they're going to introduce another Night King in the remaining episodes, there's simply not enough time left in the series to do so.

[urasim]

There is a lot of correlation between GoT and WoW, there are several quests in Northrend that clearly allude to A Song of Ice and Fire. The resemblance is not a coincidence.

When Arthas died, the scourge lived on. Because the scourge is a separate entity. It's the power of the lich king that controls the separate entity of the scourge. That's why there must always be a lich king.

The dead in game of thrones is created and controlled by the night king(In the tv show... There's no night king in the books). When the night king dies, the control fades and the dead die. There COULD have been another night king, but the children of the forest are gone.

Don't care if you can compare the two. The fact is that there's no more night king, thus no more threat from the dead. Game of thrones is now about the game of the throne.

I hope to god this doesn't happen the same way in the books. Because after the threat of the dead is dealt with, the intrigue of the show dies, IMO.

I can honestly see Bran going back and messing with the timelines to bring the NK back claiming that the NK is a necessity. I don't think it will happen but would I be surprised if it did? No.

Also Dany would've steamrolled Cersei if not for this war. It made it a bit more fair but 2 dragons is still 2 dragons.

Bran is useless. He's an expositional tool and nothing more.

But, yes, time travelling Bran is about the level of lazy writing that D&D are capable of.

[Frontenac]

I don't understand why people are saying that killing the Night King has been easy just because it took only one stab from a Valyrian blade. I suppose then that destroying the Death Star has been easy, because all it took was one lucky shot with a proton torpedo. Or killing Sauron was easy, because all it took was throwing the One Ring into a fiery chasm.

Speaking of that, we are getting a Lord of the Rings ending. Sauron is dead, but nothing has transpired of it in the Shire, of the great war and all the sacrifices it needed. The Night King is dead, but no one down South will really know what happened in the North. Like the Long Night, it will be all a legend. When the forces of the Targaryen army comes to King's Landing, they will be seen as conquerors, not as victors of an apocalyptic war that saved mankind from annihilation. If there is a bittersweet ending to it, like G.R.R. Martin said for the books, I wouldn't be surprised if Daenerys realises, after dethroning Cersei, that Westeros will never truly be her home and that she returns to Meereen. Without the dragons.

[urasim]

I don't understand why people are saying that killing the Night King has been easy just because it took only one stab from a Valyrian blade. I suppose then that destroying the Death Star has been easy, because all it took was one lucky shot with a proton torpedo. Or killing Sauron was easy, because all it took was throwing the One Ring into a fiery chasm.

Speaking of that, we are getting a Lord of the Rings ending. Sauron is dead, but nothing has transpired of it in the Shire, of the great war and all the sacrifices it needed. The Night King is dead, but no one down South will really know what happened in the North. Like the Long Night, it will be all a legend. When the forces of the Targaryen army comes to King's Landing, they will be seen as conquerors, not as victors of an apocalyptic war that saved mankind from annihilation. If there is a bittersweet ending to it, like G.R.R. Martin said for the books, I wouldn't be surprised if Daenerys realises, after dethroning Cersei, that Westeros will never truly be her home and that she returns to Meereen. Without the dragons.

An ending with a human sitting on the throne isn't really an ending. Because that story can go on and on and on. A bittersweet ending is if the throne is destroyed and the structure of society is altered. Thus ending the game for the throne.

[Cradyz]

I love the “build a thousand ships” line.

It’s like Balon, who led the previous rebellion, was like, “Eh, 100 ships is fine.” Then Euron came along and said, “ONE THOUSAND” and everyone was like “Brilliant!”

Not to mention that there can’t be more than 5 or 6 ironborn for each ship. But that’s just the nonsense world that exists in the show now.

A thousand ships and a big cock will get you anything you want in Westeros.

[Kathranis]

Gonna go ahead and drop some predictions for the remaining three episodes. Or maybe it's more like wishful thinking? Either way...

The Last War

• Jamie, Brienne, Tyrion, Bronn, Pod: I feel like all five of these characters have basically already reached the culmination of their arcs, and at this point whether they get happy endings or gut-punch deaths, I frankly don't care. Both options are just as likely. I do feel like Pod will live, but maybe he'll kill Bronn to save the others, or sacrifice himself.
• Cersei: Obviously has to die. Prior to the Night King I would have liked Arya to have done the deed, perhaps wearing Jamie's face, but I definitely don't want her to get the kills on both final bosses. Of all the characters who deserve the kill, I think it comes down to Tyrion. He hasn't really had a big character moment since he was made Hand of the Queen, as his plans have tended to fall apart. Jamie would be an option, but he already defied her and I think killing her wouldn't add anything to that. Sansa, maybe, but her grudge was really with Joffrey, and she ordered Ramsay's death, so she should be good. So, yeah, Tyrion is my bet.
• Euron: Pretty obviously dies to Yara, right? I feel like he'll go out with a whimper, in-line with everything else he's done in the show being a disappointment.
• Cleganebowl: Yeah, obviously going to happen. And the Hound will win. If he dies in the process, I don't really care, as he'll have reached the conclusion of his arc. Again, gut-punch or happy ending are equally possible.
• Missandei and Grey Worm: It's about time to wrap this one up, they reached the culmination of their arcs like a season or more ago and have just lingered for occasional warm fuzzies. Another case where I don't care if they live happily ever after or die tragically, but I'll assume the latter.
• The Golden Company: If I were a betting man, I'd bet on Daario being revealed as their commander and turning on Euron and Cersei, pledging his sellswords to Dany. Maybe even played up to parallel Littlefinger paying off the gold cloaks to betray Ned.
• Qyburn: Has to die, I figure. I think most likely at the hands of Gregor himself, but I could also maybe see Sam doing it (on behalf of the Citadel) or Varys (reclaiming his post).
• Varys: Speaking of him, I honestly don't know at this point. He hasn't done much. Whatever he does will be for the good of the realm. Dying to save someone, living to serve the realm. Whatever. The latter I would prefer, as it's more in character for him to slip through and survive to continue his duty. At the same time, him choosing to save someone else would be a poignant end.
• Davos: I feel like he will basically just become Jon's right hand man, and will probably survive. His arc has resolved so whatever happens is fine, but if he didn't die at Winterfell I don't see why he should die now.
• Tormund: It'd be cool to see him fighting the Mountain, maybe? I feel like he needs to live, as the sole notable representative of the Wildlings.

I think that pretty much hits all the major points. There will be some battling, and there will be some betrayals and big character moments and a few deaths, because there has to be, but I think the "Last War" will basically just be a foregone conclusion. Maybe a dragon dies? Chekhov's gun with the scorpion in the new intro?


However, I'm going to go ahead and throw down the gauntlet and predict that it will all build to a surprise third conflict: Jon vs Dany

The Last Last War

Actually, I don't know if this will be a war or even a battle. It might all be handled much more personally. Well, I'll just cut to the chase: I think Jon will be forced by circumstances to kill Dany and take the Iron Throne. A bittersweet ending for the Starks and a tragic end for Dany.

By this point, I believe those most loyal to Dany (Jorah, Missandei, and Grey Worm, basically) will all be dead. If Tyrion is alive, there's already tension between them and he's a pragmatist. Varys is also a pragmatist. This means Dany really has nobody else left in her corner after the battle for King's Landing, IMO.

If knowledge gets out that Jon is Aegon Targaryen and the rightful heir to the Throne, even though he won't want to rule, I think Dany will stubbornly cling to her goal of taking the Iron Throne. I think at some point she'll just snap, basically. Not turn evil, not go crazy, just... snap. Paranoia, anger, resent... it will unleash. Things will just spiral for her, and she'll drive a wedge between herself and Jon, and circumstances will force them into an unavoidable conflict because Dany is too stubborn and Jon is too dutiful.

And here's my big, big prediction: I think this will all happen when Howland Reed is called upon to verify Jon's royal heritage. Whether he is called to King's Landing, or they travel to Greywater Watch as they march south and rally the banners for the fight with Cersei, I think Howland Reed is going to be the lynchpin. Bran will tell Jon and/or Sam that Howland Reed is the only man living who can confirm the truth about Jon's parentage, and will probably also tell them to tell Meera he's sorry or something, too.

I think this will happen after Dany claims the Iron Throne as her own following the battle with Cersei. Howland Reed will be called into the throne room, he will verify what we all already know. Jon is the rightful heir, not Dany. He doesn't want the throne, but does he even have a choice now? Dany becomes boxed in by the situation. Paranoia sets in, anger, frustration... and I think Dany will have an emotional outburst and something will happen that she doesn't intend: Drogon will act on instinct and lash out to protect her, perhaps killing Howland Reed, or some of Jon's other bannermen. Maybe even Sam. But probably Howland.

And from there things spiral. Dany can't forsake her ambition or her destiny, even for love. Jon can't forsake his duty to his bannermen and the realm, even for love. The show can't give either of them a happy ending, so Dany will die after a very, very short reign. Jon will kill her, sacrificing love for duty. And I think in the end, we'll see Jon seat the Iron Throne, perhaps with both sisters at his side, a la Aegon I. And he'll be a good ruler, but he'll be fucking miserable.

In fact, what I think really want to see as the final scene: 20+ years later, Jon walks across the throne room and takes his seat on the Iron Throne, Ghost at his side, dour expression on his face, crown on his head, his hair graying, giving the impression that in old age he'll be the spitting image of a true blooded Targaryen.

- - - Updated - - -

A thousand ships and a big cock will get you anything you want in Westeros.

Just imagine what he could accomplish with twenty good men.

[Gorsameth]

I imagine part of the next episode is going to be the aftermath and build up for "The Last War" and episode 4 will be the "The Last War" and the aftermath of that too followed by the finale episode. Whether it is Jon, Gendry, Dany, Tyrion or whoever else will be crowned as ruler and lord protector.

"The Great War" is supposed to be GOT defining war, the most anticipated war. Life vs Death, Fire vs Ice. Rhllor vs The Great Other. "The Last War" probably wont be anything to this magnitude as it is more conventional... no mystical and fabled beings in this one...except the dragons.

But knowing Cersei, she is mad and psychotic she will probably destroy Kings Landing before she loses like the Mad King wanted to do before Jaime killed him. I can see Jaime stopping her too.

Its the Lord of the Rings problem. Where you had the great battle against Saurons armies and the struggle of Frodo to destroy the ring and the great victory.
Only to discover that some old guy(i know, its Saruman) enslaved the shire that no one really give a shit about just to drag the book out for a few more pages and it all gets terribly anti-climatic.

I don't see how GoT avoids the same problem with another 3 episodes to kill time in.

[Independent voter]

"The episode was dark and full of errors!"