1. #24661
    I don't know if anyone has linked this yet, but this is a pretty good explanation of why episode 3 sucked to such an extent. This is how it should have happened.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EA5mJRFaI8c
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.
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    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
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    It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

  2. #24662
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    Dany slowly going mad and Arya heading south to to presumably try and assassinate Cersei are literally the only things that made "sense" in the episode last week. I put "sense" in quotations because Arya's plotline only makes sense in light of the skillset and ability she's been given in the show apropos of nothing.
    In the end I don't think Arya will get a chance at assassinating Cersei , her and Sandor moving south is probably to kill the mountain Cersei is reserved to either Targaryen forces or Jaime himself

  3. #24663
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    I don't know if anyone has linked this yet, but this is a pretty good explanation of why episode 3 sucked to such an extent. This is how it should have happened.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EA5mJRFaI8c
    One of the comments has a pretty genius idea; a dragonglass earring for every soldier. Nobody can be raised. I'd have loved to see the look on the NK's face after that one.

  4. #24664
    Legendary! Thekri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StayTuned View Post
    They had Varys. Who has better intel than ANYONE else and yet since he's been with Dany, he was essentially useless.

    "Any old spy" really doesn't sound like Cersei should have the upper hand here in terms of intel. Unless it was Varys himself who set it in motion I'm calling bullshit. Or unless they would let Euron sit for months at the same spot awaiting them based on some sort of suspicion - which again sounds like a stretch from a tactical point of view.
    The writers clearly made the decision that situational awareness detracts from the drama, so no characters have any idea what is going on anywhere they aren't standing. Varys basically traffics in gossip, not army and fleet movements apparently. I think the actual bigger issue is that the show writers have no idea how to write a scheming character, something that is very central to Martin's work. All the "schemers" that are left have done nothing actually in line with a consistent agenda for several seasons now. Instead they are all scheming for the sake of Scheming.

    Sansa keeps harming her own interests with ridicoulously petty plots, the first one of which got her brother killed when she decided telling Jon about the Army of the Vale wasn't important. "Hey Jon, one of the most powerful armies on the continent will be here tomorrow morning to join us, maybe we should wait and attack with them". Fortunately literally nobody misses Rickon, and he is never mentioned again.

    Varys used to have big overarching schemes that spanned decades, now he hears of an unverified claim to the throne, and immediately decides it is Murder O'clock. Seriously, think about how flimsy the evidence he has is. Tyrion told him that Sansa told him, that Jon told her, that Sam told him that he had a claim to the throne. Literally any of those people in that chain could be lying, but Varys takes it as gospel. It never occurs to him that Tyrion could be lying to him because he is a scheming bastard. Or Sansa could be lying to Tyrion for obvious reason. Or that Jon or Sam could be lying, for equally obvious reasons. Instead he decides to kill the girl he has been grooming for the crown for her whole life. Instead of trying to fix the obvious issues.

    I also have no idea or even just a feeling how much time passed since NK battle and the parley....
    Time flows differently in the Quantum Realm. And the Seven Kingdoms.

  5. #24665
    Old God Kathranis's Avatar
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    It's been five days and I just wanted to say that the more you think about the last two episodes, the stupider they become.

    I wasn't thrilled with everything, I've been harshly critic of the way this show has been handled since season 5, but there was so much I let slide in the moment of watching the episodes because I liked the general notion of it. Like, "Oh, flaming swords, cool. Oh they're charging into the blackness and going out, cool. Oh, Dany's brashness caught up with her and Rhaegal dyed, cool."

    But the more you think about it all, the more it just falls apart

    Like, even just that first example. They didn't know Melisandre was going to show up anyway, so... what? Was their frontline cavalry just going to charge in with steel weapons (not obsidian) anyway? If it was stupid when they had flaming weapons, what was the original plan? Did it just make them overconfident?

    But then you think about it even more and you realize... why were they defending Winterfell at all? Their plan from the start was to use Bran to lure out the Night King so they could ambush him, right? So why commit their entire army to protecting Bran in the first place?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    One of the comments has a pretty genius idea; a dragonglass earring for every soldier. Nobody can be raised. I'd have loved to see the look on the NK's face after that one.
    Obsidian kills wights but I'm not sure it's as simple as just breaking the skin. I think the obsidian might still need to cut through muscle or organs.

  6. #24666
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post

    Obsidian kills wights but I'm not sure it's as simple as just breaking the skin. I think the obsidian might still need to cut through muscle or organs.
    Perhaps it's arbitrary like that, yeah. Just feels like something one could try.

  7. #24667
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thekri View Post
    I think the actual bigger issue is that the show writers have no idea how to write a scheming character, something that is very central to Martin's work. All the "schemers" that are left have done nothing actually in line with a consistent agenda for several seasons now. Instead they are all scheming for the sake of Scheming.
    Why be clever when you can just use invisible ships and magic ballistae?
    /s

  8. #24668
    Quote Originally Posted by Thekri View Post
    Sansa keeps harming her own interests with ridicoulously petty plots, the first one of which got her brother killed when she decided telling Jon about the Army of the Vale wasn't important. "Hey Jon, one of the most powerful armies on the continent will be here tomorrow morning to join us, maybe we should wait and attack with them". Fortunately literally nobody misses Rickon, and he is never mentioned again.
    I still don't understand the reasoning behind this decision, especially that everyone then thanks Sansa for saving the day. If I was Jon Snow, I would be pissed at Sansa for withholding information like that almost lead to me dying and to the unnecessary deaths of thousands of my men that I needed to defeat the NK.

    Sansa says that they didn't or wouldn't listen to her, but Jon asks her directly if she has anything that would change the battle plan. She has something, but doesn't tell him because she thinks he will screw it up because he underestimates Ramsay. Well, I don't see how knowing that the knights of the Vale were available would make the outcome any worse than it was.

    Really I don't understand how there is anyone left in the North to fight for Jon and Dany since they have been in three meat grinder battles in the last few seasons - Stannis vs Ramsay, Ramsay vs Jon and the NK battle. Or maybe they just show a lot of bodies laying everywhere piled up after the battle, but those people are magically resurrected for the next conflict like the Unsullied last week.

  9. #24669
    Quote Originally Posted by Prokne View Post
    Really I don't understand how there is anyone left in the North to fight for Jon and Dany since they have been in three meat grinder battles in the last few seasons - Stannis vs Ramsay, Ramsay vs Jon and the NK battle. Or maybe they just show a lot of bodies laying everywhere piled up after the battle, but those people are magically resurrected for the next conflict like the Unsullied last week.
    Considering we see the Dothraki all charge and die and there was no way in hell half of those 10.000 survived. Yet the next episode only half the Dothraki were gone.

    We see the unsullied hold the line to protect the retreat, they even make a big deal of Greyworm breaking the bridge across the moat while the unsullied are still on the other side. Yet half of them live.

    Pretty sure this is magic Christmas land where half the dead get up at the end of every battle.

    ps.
    You forgot Robb also lost most of the North's army just a few years before.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  10. #24670
    I usually don't speculate on TV shows, but I hope the last two episodes will address the only man of the show, alongside Sam, who could possibily answer some questions about the setting : Qyburn.

    (I probably think too much about it, but Qyburn have been show mastering technology that just happens to reproduce/fight the most common manifestations of magic in the setting : necromancy, dragons, magic fire)
    Last edited by sarahtasher; 2019-05-11 at 02:30 PM.

  11. #24671
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Considering we see the Dothraki all charge and die and there was no way in hell half of those 10.000 survived. Yet the next episode only half the Dothraki were gone.

    We see the unsullied hold the line to protect the retreat, they even make a big deal of Greyworm breaking the bridge across the moat while the unsullied are still on the other side. Yet half of them live.

    Pretty sure this is magic Christmas land where half the dead get up at the end of every battle.

    ps.
    You forgot Robb also lost most of the North's army just a few years before.
    I am pretty sure it works by the same rules as Total War games. Units regenerate a certain percent of their losses every turn spent in friendly territory. That is why Sansa suggested waiting a couple turns before throwing a couple depleted stacks at Kings Landing.

    Oh, and ships magically appear every time you move an army into the water, because there is no way Dany should have any ships left otherwise.

  12. #24672
    Quote Originally Posted by Thekri View Post
    I am pretty sure it works by the same rules as Total War games. Units regenerate a certain percent of their losses every turn spent in friendly territory. That is why Sansa suggested waiting a couple turns before throwing a couple depleted stacks at Kings Landing.

    Oh, and ships magically appear every time you move an army into the water, because there is no way Dany should have any ships left otherwise.
    viewing battles through the eyes of a bad Total War player explains so much
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  13. #24673
    The Jon Snow School of Tactical Leadership (next building to the Imperial Stormtrooper Markmanship Academy) is to be praised for the entire move of sending light cavalry in a snow covered area. Thousands of light cavalry

    (Historically, a plenty of horses could learn to use their hooves to remove snow and eat grass underneath. During the French invasion of Russia, the small Polish horses survived and the chargers of the Imperial Guard did not, but obviously Dothraki horses are not capable of this and would have not lasted one week)
    Last edited by sarahtasher; 2019-05-11 at 04:09 PM.

  14. #24674
    They sealed their fate when they killed the Night King so unceremoniously midway through the season. He should have been the final villain and the resolution of his character should have happened in episode 5/6. What made them think Cersei and Euron could replace the Night King as the main antagonist?
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    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  15. #24675
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    I wonder how many actors we will continue to see after this? I'm gonna say it Sophie Turner and Maisie Williams are extremely wooden. Emilia Clarke's other projects seems to have flopped, as have Kit Harrington's - could be because they're all young and they had this to fall back on for the good 10 years, but now it's over I'd wager we won't see them much.
    We'll probably end up seeing a couple of them in a few movies/tv-shows in the coming years, but yeah they aren't anything special.
    When I think of great GoT actors I think of Tywin and Olenna.
    Last edited by Chelly; 2019-05-11 at 08:43 PM.

  16. #24676
    Quote Originally Posted by Void Fallen View Post
    They sealed their fate when they killed the Night King so unceremoniously midway through the season. He should have been the final villain and the resolution of his character should have happened in episode 5/6. What made them think Cersei and Euron could replace the Night King as the main antagonist?
    It was indeed a huge letdown. The show kind of ended in episode 3. Cercei is a OK enemy to fight against last after NK, but Euron? I get that hes major in the books(I think?) and theres more to him, but in the show I have always felt the character to be so cheap. He sort of wings and steals the show out of nowhere.

    I was not suprised that they ended off with the NK before Cercei, but I wish they didnt. The suspense of having the NK and his army alive and moving south to end humanity was great for the show. The whole drama between Jon/Dany/Sansa/Tyrion++++ is tiersome and since we have so few episodes, they arent able to write good story for it anymore.

  17. #24677
    Again, the Night King, like the Lich King (zing) is a good threat, but not a very good vilain for a show based on Human failings.

  18. #24678
    Quote Originally Posted by sarahtasher View Post
    Again, the Night King, like the Lich King (zing) is a good threat, but not a very good vilain for a show based on Human failings.
    Which is why he doesn't exist in the books. The dead are the threat, they don't need a villain or face. The fact that they are death is enough for their function as a backdrop that all the scheming from the Lords of Westeros is pointless in the face of them.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  19. #24679
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Which is why he doesn't exist in the books. The dead are the threat, they don't need a villain or face. The fact that they are death is enough for their function as a backdrop that all the scheming from the Lords of Westeros is pointless in the face of them.
    Yes, and thats how it was presented in the show. That it does not matter what the lords of westeros bickers about, cause death is coming for them all. But, they literally killed death incarnated. So I guess human bickering wins :P

  20. #24680
    Aside from the fact that D.B. Weiss himself said he did not see the Night King as a villain, the "human bickering" part of the show (which, by the way, was repeatedly stated to pale in comparison to the threat of the Night King) could have continued even if the Night King won at Winterfell. Only, it would be overshadowed by the Night King marching on King´s Landing to finish what he started.
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    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

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