[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[Kuja]

Interesting to hear about Cat Stark from the books. I'm still so sad she never returned in the tv show. Would have been so bad ass. Maybe I should read the books.

[Koriani]

So weird - I checked the publication of the last novel - 2011. I guess in ten years your mind just likes to play tricks on you! =D It does like to do that.

[Berndorf]

None of the examples you typed happened in the books, yet.

- - - Updated - - -

Well..hrm... -
Why do I have clear memories of knowing what was going on before it happened in the show? (Or did the show just change this order?)

I knew (from the books) before he loosed him before the actual Battle, that Ramsey's bow was going to miss 'a few times' and then shoot the Stark kid in the back. (SERPENTINE KID! XD)

I knew from the books (before the episode) how Sansa gets her revenge/how Ramsay is killed? Hell, I remember looking forward to seeing the reaction on the husband's face when he saw it for the first time and hoping they didn't change it from the book.

??? Are you sure you guys read up through the last book? Cuz now I'm just confoozeled.

(I remember reading about Jon's resurrection but I don't know if I saw that vs. read it in the book first.)

Yes. In the books Sansa is still in the Vale with Littlefinger who is still trying to establish power there. The north left off with Bolton's army making its way to Winterfell to fight Stannis' army and Theon having just made his escape with fake Sansa. Also, Jon Snow hasn't been resurrected yet. The last thing that happened is him sinking into a pool of his own blood.

[eschatological]

Interestingly enough, in the Vale Sansa is known as Littlefinger's niece.....so the creepy stalker LF becomes might be difficult to pull off in the books. And she has substantially more power over LF in the books, as she witnessed his murder of Lyssa Arryn, and is covering for him, for now. She can easily reveal herself as Sansa Stark, tell the Lords of the Vale that LF murdered Lyssa, and insinuate he killed Joffrey (which he did), and kidnapped her (which he didn't really). And Littlefinger knows all this, so it's up to GRRM to see how well she's learned to play the game during the time she's been married to Joff.

[Koriani]

Interestingly enough, in the Vale Sansa is known as Littlefinger's niece.....so the creepy stalker LF becomes might be difficult to pull off in the books. And she has substantially more power over LF in the books, as she witnessed his murder of Lyssa Arryn, and is covering for him, for now. She can easily reveal herself as Sansa Stark, tell the Lords of the Vale that LF murdered Lyssa, and insinuate he killed Joffrey (which he did), and kidnapped her (which he didn't really). And Littlefinger knows all this, so it's up to GRRM to see how well she's learned to play the game during the time she's been married to Joff.

Oh don't get me started on Book Sansa vs. TV Show Sansa.

I hated Sansa's guts from book one onwards. IN the books (TO ME) she has remained a idiot spoiled brat who deserves everything that happens to her, because she's so horribly selfish (and because she was so blind to reality).

I was a bit peeved that the tv show gave her a break on that, made her less repulsively bratty and had her 'grow up' faster/sooner - because that's not the view I have of that character from the books. Its one of the issues I have with her character - that despite everything she's been through and seen - she still hasn't learned much; unlike her sister. She still can't play the game, and isn't predicting the game, in a realistic way - given everything that's happened. She DOES do that in the show - learns faster, regrets faster - but in the books, she doesn't so much.

And I'm not normally someone who gets all "Must match book" when books are converted to movies/tv shows. I usually am fine with most changes/shifts and can ride it out as just 'a different way of seeing it' and can enjoy all formats of a story - even when they don't match. But for Sansa, apparently that struck a nerve! "She doesn't deserve sympathy! Don't feel bad for her! She's awful! She fits right in with Jeoffrey's family!"

[eschatological]

I think we were only beginning to see Sansa understand the game when the "noble knight" who was to rescue her from Joffrey ended up being Littlefinger, and the dire, abusive situation she just left became a new, dire abusive situation under Littlefinger.

That's why I've been waiting 9 years to see how and when she grows up, and how hard and fast she'll fall into that cynicism - because I doubt she's gonna take after Ned, she'll take after the parent she looks like, Cat Tully, who is currently hanging Freys in the Riverlands.

Ironically, I think Arya's understanding of the game is gonna be less complete Sansa, in the long run. Like Jon, Arya sees things in a very black and white and doesn't bend like a reed. She's at best, a blunt instrument. I think we also start to see that at the end of book 5, and I don't think she'll be let off as easily as she was in the show for not learning the lessons of The Faceless Men.

Unlike most readers, I didn't hate Sansa much. She's the oldest daughter of an important lord, and from birth had this image of being a princess. While that might be naive for any normal girl, she's the notedly beautiful daughter of an important lord, who happens to be best friends with the current King, who happens to have a son who is set to become King who is her age. Her viewpoint wasn't unreasonable to have.

She was a little slow on the uptake in figuring out that Joff was a monster, as was Cersei, and the guy who looked like a monster (Sandor) wasn't really. And she clung to it a little long in hoping for a gallant knight to rescue her....but I think she's well divorced of that now.

[Ihavewaffles]

Paddy Considine Cast in Lead Role in House of the Dragon

http://watchersonthewall.com/paddy-c...n/#more-179657

After last season I made a last ditch hope with the now-cancelled show by making a thread about it, others didn't want to bother to for understandable reasons n now I'm 99.9% numb, I was 99.8% numb when I made the thread...if ur less numb, you could make a thread? Since, technically each show should have its own thread, like the hobbit movies weren't posted updates on in the Lotr thread. I'm typing these words mechanically, it doesn't mean I have any passion for this new show..but I did get a smirk at the lead, so different from the fan art that looks like it's for soccer mom romantic novel covers at the grocery..always looks like a blonde male model stud that could be thor xD



Paddy looks like a regular bloke

[tehealadin]

I do like Rhys Ifans, not seen him in much for a while, look forward to seeing how he does with this.

[eschatological]

I do like Rhys Ifans, not seen him in much for a while, look forward to seeing how he does with this.

All I can think of when I see Rhys Ifans is his role in Notting Hill.

[Ihavewaffles]

Steve Toussaint, Eve Best, Rhys Ifans, and Sonoya Mizuno join the cast of House of the Dragon.

..that is woke casting, I'm out...we are only talking about valyrians who kept it in the family for the sake of dragon blood, to keep their dragon WMD power intact..it's not about skin color, but blood, while velaryons aren't dragonlords, they are close to the targaryens ie want to be close to power, the blood, his grand children look like typical valyrians, hair, eye-color, etc. but here they want to be close to power n yet are re-born as summer sea people..we are just going to ignore the core goal of this whole franchise, the quest for power, thrones just to be woke? If this is their choice after D&D ran the franchise into the ground, is this how they are trying to resurrect it? hello?..after how GoT got dropped by the fans, one should appeal to them for the sake of lore, no? no???

I am out.

[Skandulous]

Uh, okay?

If you’re referring to Steve Toussaint and Sonora Mizuno....

Toussaint: Lord Corlys Velaryon aka “The Sea Snake.” The lord of House Velaryon, a Valyrian bloodline as old as House Targaryen

Mizuno: Mysaria. She came to Westeros with nothing, sold more times than she can recall, and could have wilted…but instead she rose to become the most trusted — and most unlikely — ally of Prince Daemon Targaryen, the heir to the throne.

The show may be about Targaryens, but that doesn’t mean it’s all about them. They’ll be coming in contact with other people of Westeros.

So what exactly is the problem?

Both of Corlys's children with Rhaenys Targaryen, however, had classic Valyrian features of silver hair and purple eyes.

[Ihavewaffles]

"Targaryen blood so strong" that's why they have to be incestous? Ur only shredding the general GoT story..why are you even interested in this show n updating thread if u care so little about the lore? No, I'm not saying u can't post, just don't understand ur motivation...cgi dragons? something else?

Besides the velaryons, u have the valyrian families in Volantis in Essos called the old blood.

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Old_Blood
The scions of the Old Blood are influential and consider themselves to be of superior breeding. In Volantis, only those who can trace their ancestry back to Valyria can be triarchs, and only those of the Old Blood are allowed to live within the Black Walls of eastern Volantis. Furthermore, only they can invite slaves, freedmen, or foreigners to pass beyond the Black Walls.[1][2] Inside the Black Walls, Volantenes of the Old Blood still keep court in ancient palaces, attended by armies of slaves.[1]

Basic theme in GoT is lineage based on middle ages you rose due to who you are related to, so people try to marry up to further advancement.
It's why Walder Frey wanted his daughter to marry Robb Stark, the king in the north. This is why show is called game of thrones, I thought after 8 seasons it should be obvious by now?

You do have a black nobleman both in books n tv show, the latter he was hardly mentioned. He is part of Robert Baratheon's arc of Robert not giving a fuck anymore n spending his days drinking n watching jousting...

He ironically got his throne usurped n spends his days in Robert's court bribing him with gifts, hoping Robert will help him get his rightful throne back..but Westeros tries to stay together, they have never been able to do expand to essos n summer sea peoples are even further away...
Not even Valyrians wasted much time on such things since the jungles in the south are full of dangerous animals, plants, poison, diseases.
There's little reason for intermarriage, strategically nobody benefits which is why that nobleman's time is wasted. Robert couldn't help him even if he wanted to.

[Skulltaker]

"Targaryen blood so strong" that's why they have to be incestous? Ur only shredding the general GoT story..why are you even interested in this show n updating thread if u care so little about the lore? No, I'm not saying u can't post, just don't understand ur motivation...cgi dragons? something else?

You still haven't spelled out what lore exactly is being mistreated here. And the fact that you cannot be bothered to spell out simple words or make a coherent argument is in no way helping your image as a whiny racist man-child.

Both of Corlys's children with Rhaenys Targaryen, however, had classic Valyrian features of silver hair and purple eyes.

... and that's an issue now... why, again?

[Tommy T]

The best news I've heard from House of the Dragon is the Ramin Djawadi is composing the score.

That alone makes it worth watching imo.

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

Uh, okay?

If you’re referring to Steve Toussaint and Sonora Mizuno....

Toussaint: Lord Corlys Velaryon aka “The Sea Snake.” The lord of House Velaryon, a Valyrian bloodline as old as House Targaryen

Mizuno: Mysaria. She came to Westeros with nothing, sold more times than she can recall, and could have wilted…but instead she rose to become the most trusted — and most unlikely — ally of Prince Daemon Targaryen, the heir to the throne.

The show may be about Targaryens, but that doesn’t mean it’s all about them. They’ll be coming in contact with other people of Westeros.

So what exactly is the problem?

House Velaryon are supposed to be of Valyrian stock, with features very similar to the Targaryen... and were even vassals and marrying into the latters prior to the Conquest of the Seven Kingdoms...

[Ihavewaffles]

Winter, nobody complained about black characters in got, you can go ahead n try find any post of mine doing so. N ur examples with hair color is just ignorant..you refuse the to see the GoT medieval theme of lineage n dragon blood for power n advancement, means u don't care about G.Martin's lore. Ur just mad people call out the 2021 woke bs.

Its perfectly fine that u only care about dragons n swords, doesn't mean we'll put up with shredding lore n u shouting buzzwords.





Guy i wrote about earlier
https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Jalabhar_Xho

[korijenkins]

Your refusal to watch the show because they cast a black man as a character who’s physical description has not been mentioned in any published material, nor has the identity of his parents been given, is because you’re racist and don’t like that he’s black. It’s not because it’s “woke” casting.

The lore says that not every Targaryen and Valyrian engaged in incest to keep the bloodline “pure”... and they certainly weren’t all faithful in their marriages, and that means children would have been born that didn’t have the common features that we associate with those houses.

I’m not going to argue about this anymore, as it’s treading on forbidden topics here.

Jesus. What a narrow-minded way of looking at someone who is unhappy with a casting that basically craps on established lore. Quite frankly I'd be unhappy if they cast a dashing young lad as Maester Aemon because it would make no sense, or cast an old man as Jon Snow, or hell Nicolas Cage as Superman. You wanna at least be in the ballpark with physical traits, and yes skin color is a physical trait.

When a character quite clearly diverges from their actual description to an extent that the only thing tying them to said character is the name in the credits, that's a pretty big problem to people regardless of race.

There are plenty of examples of race not mattering regarding castings, the most notable one being the Witcher where an Indian woman was playing Yennefer and did great.

You gotta stop assuming racism is the main cause behind people not liking the casting of a Black actor in a role where the character is supposed to be fair skinned with silver hair. Like, that's not even close to the character's physical traits lol.

Bringing up forbidden topics isn't allowed. Infracted.

[Isilrien]

The best news I've heard from House of the Dragon is the Ramin Djawadi is composing the score.

That alone makes it worth watching imo.

Completely agree.

[EyelessCrow]

It's going to take a lot to get me re-invested into this story. I can't even get through half of the first episode of season 1 knowing how the story ends. I'm worried watching this might still have that feeling, even though it's earlier in history.

[jonnysensible]

wait is that dr who lmao wots going on