1. #27221
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    Almost certainly not. They created the Night King for the show based on a historical character in the books called the Night's King, but the similarities pretty much end with the name.

    All signs point to Euron Greyjoy being the character that will fulfill roughly that role in the books.
    Not even based on the book figure really. The book figure was born many years after the Wall was already built, while the TV Night King was the first of the White Walkers, so he was born many years before the Wall was established.

    I don't know why they called him "Night King" thus creating so much confusion, but it's DnD so go figure.
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  2. #27222
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    Almost certainly not. They created the Night King for the show based on a historical character in the books called the Night's King, but the similarities pretty much end with the name.

    All signs point to Euron Greyjoy being the character that will fulfill roughly that role in the books.
    no no no...the nigths king is also mentioned in the show,they are different things

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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    The reason is simple, it's because it sounds stupid.

    "8.000-yo old race of Ice Demons exterminated by one 18 yo old girl with a knife."

    That sounds stupid, actually it almost sounds hilarious/comical, but last time I checked the White Walkers storyline was never meant to be hilarious/comical.

    Like it just makes the Night King look like an idiot, imagine plotting, scheming, building an army for 8.000 years only to get oneshot by a teenager. It's stupid and anticlimactic.

    The Night King didn't even have to die, if the showrunners bothered to give him some actual depth/flesh him out the show could have just ended with a new pact between the White Walkers and humans. It was also shown that the White Walkers were capable of making deals with humans, since they made a deal with Craster.

    Game of Thrones is a classic example that sometimes the easiest/most obvious route isn't the best one.
    I dont disagree,it could have been and should have been handled so much better

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    I don't remember that. Are you talking about the dude that was turned by the Children? That's the same Night King we see later.
    no,thats the night king,there is then the NIGTH'S king,a dude also mentioned in the show,check first quote

    https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Night%27s_King

  3. #27223
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    I never said the show did things well,all im claiming is that arya killing NK isnt among the worst things s8 did,it was foreshadowed,and it fits for him to be defeated from a more unexpected angle than the big ol hero jon,who couldnt even stand a chance against NK,or any warrior in the show
    It wasn't foreshadowed though. D and d already admitted they decided on arya late on. Because Jon killing the NK "didn't feel right"

  4. #27224
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    It wasn't foreshadowed though. D and d already admitted they decided on arya late on. Because Jon killing the NK "didn't feel right"
    Indeed

    What a terrible decision.
    All that build up with Jon and the NK. Gone to one of the worst arcs in the series (Arya)

  5. #27225
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby B View Post
    Indeed

    What a terrible decision.
    All that build up with Jon and the NK. Gone to one of the worst arcs in the series (Arya)
    Yeah. The nature of the show changed when it became the biggest show on TV and people were crowding out bars watching the next episode. It became event television needing big action and twists and stopped honouring the more realistic and unpredictable parts of the books.

    My personal grievance being the treatment of littlefinger. The mastermind sacrificed so sansa can have her "I'm a bad ass now" scene
    Last edited by RobertoCarlos; 2021-05-07 at 07:02 PM.

  6. #27226
    Jon killing the Night King would have also been stupid. The Night King was smart/wise not to engage Jon Snow in battle, since HE SAW AT HARDHOME that Jon was strong enough to take out one of his Generals. So he was smart to leave Jon to his zombie underlings. That's one decision I liked, because it shows that the Night King did not forget the loss of his underling at Hardhome.

    No one should have killed the Night King honestly, or if anyone had to kill him it should have been Bran after some weird mental shenanigan battle. When you introduce a character like the Night King who is supposed to be "so far above everything and everyone", killing him in battle is just stupid.

    Like imagine if Sargeras died at the end of the Antorus raid because the Vindicaar nuked him or some shit like that, no one would like it.
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  7. #27227
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Jon killing the Night King would have also been stupid. The Night King was smart/wise not to engage Jon Snow in battle, since HE SAW AT HARDHOME that Jon was strong enough to take out one of his Generals. So he was smart to leave Jon to his zombie underlings. That's one decision I liked, because it shows that the Night King did not forget the loss of his underling at Hardhome.

    No one should have killed the Night King honestly, or if anyone had to kill him it should have been Bran after some weird mental shenanigan battle. When you introduce a character like the Night King who is supposed to be "so far above everything and everyone", killing him in battle is just stupid.

    Like imagine if Sargeras died at the end of the Antorus raid because the Vindicaar nuked him or some shit like that, no one would like it.
    It wouldnt have been stupid it would have been difficult.

    Which was why it was interesting how he was gonna do it.

    Not just someone with light feet and a neck made of vibranium

  8. #27228
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    It wouldnt have been stupid it would have been difficult.

    Which was why it was interesting how he was gonna do it.

    Not just someone with light feet and a neck made of vibranium
    It would have equally ruined the Night King's character. The Night King saw at Hardhome that Jon was a threat (as he destroyed one of his White Walker Generals), so leaving Jon to his zombies was the right move.

    The only way that would work is if Jon somehow ambushed or cornered the Night King, at which point it would make some sense if the Night King was forced to fight Jon.
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  9. #27229
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    It would have equally ruined the Night King's character. The Night King saw at Hardhome that Jon was a threat (as he destroyed one of his White Walker Generals), so leaving Jon to his zombies was the right move.

    The only way that would work is if Jon somehow ambushed or cornered the Night King, at which point it would make some sense if the Night King was forced to fight Jon.
    Because mighty generals never make mistakes?

    He could have wanted robot bran badly enough. Or Khaleesi wipes out the undead army forcing him to lower from his dragon.

    Thats the creative writing part. Theres loads of options they could have gone with.

    Instead they went with the "themes are for 8 year old book reports, subverting expectations is so 2020 yo, watch this shit" route

  10. #27230
    Black Valyrians/Targs.

    You know. The people with platinum blonde hair, purple eyes and white skin. Oof.

    Also Matt Smith looks wrong as hell like that. His face was not made for that hairstyle.

  11. #27231
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    Because mighty generals never make mistakes?
    You're comparing a 8000+ yo old God of Death to some random "mighty general". That ruins his character. The Night King doesn't make mistakes, that's who he is, or who he was anyway before 8x03. Literally the only thing he lost before Winterfell was a bunch of disposable White Walker generals.

    He could have wanted robot bran badly enough.
    This is what happened in Canon. In reality he had no reason to show himself at Winterfell. He could have simply bypassed Winterfell to wreak havoc across the kingdoms, knowing that his Army can't lose so long as he lives. But his desire to personally kill the Three Eyed Raven got the better of him.

    In fact their entire plan was to lure the Night King into a trap by using Bran as bait.
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  12. #27232
    Quote Originally Posted by starstationprofm View Post
    Black Valyrians/Targs.

    You know. The people with platinum blonde hair, purple eyes and white skin. Oof.

    Also Matt Smith looks wrong as hell like that. His face was not made for that hairstyle.
    I mean royalty have had terrible haircuts since forever but ok.

  13. #27233
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    It wasn't foreshadowed though. D and d already admitted they decided on arya late on. Because Jon killing the NK "didn't feel right"
    Yeah, the guy resurrected by the Fire God killing the Ice God would be too silly in a story called " A Song of Ice and Fire ".

    Arya killing him was dogshit. She was never involved in that story.

    It should've been Bran or Jon. Bran warging into the dead Greyjoys and Theon's body and stabbing him out of nowhere would've been dope.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    I mean royalty have had terrible haircuts since forever but ok.
    https://images.immediate.co.uk/produ...resize=620,413

    He just looks wrong man. They bleached his brows too.

  14. #27234
    Quote Originally Posted by starstationprofm View Post
    Yeah, the guy resurrected by the Fire God killing the Ice God would be too silly in a story called " A Song of Ice and Fire ".

    Arya killing him was dogshit. She was never involved in that story.

    It should've been Bran or Jon. Bran warging into the dead Greyjoys and Theon's body and stabbing him out of nowhere would've been dope.

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    https://images.immediate.co.uk/produ...resize=620,413

    He just looks wrong man. They bleached his brows too.
    yea it looks weird but so did Mary Queen of the Scotts and King Henry the V.

    That is accurate to knobheads thinking they are above the common folk and are also scared of lice or suffering from some illness.

  15. #27235
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Jon killing the Night King would have also been stupid. The Night King was smart/wise not to engage Jon Snow in battle, since HE SAW AT HARDHOME that Jon was strong enough to take out one of his Generals. So he was smart to leave Jon to his zombie underlings. That's one decision I liked, because it shows that the Night King did not forget the loss of his underling at Hardhome.

    No one should have killed the Night King honestly, or if anyone had to kill him it should have been Bran after some weird mental shenanigan battle. When you introduce a character like the Night King who is supposed to be "so far above everything and everyone", killing him in battle is just stupid.

    Like imagine if Sargeras died at the end of the Antorus raid because the Vindicaar nuked him or some shit like that, no one would like it.
    Well, the show completely abandoned the whole Lord of Light/"Prince that was Promised" angle. One of the themes is all about how magic (dragons, white walkers, resurrections, prophecies, etc) is coming back to a world that has pretty much forgotten it. Even the show introduced various red priests other than just Melisandre and Thoros, but by the end they had all been cast aside and forgotten.

    You are kind of right. I don't think a mortal man (even one who had been brought back from the dead) going hack and slash against such a powerful magical being would have been that much better than a child defeating him with dumb luck. I think there should have been a stronger supernatural opposition to the Night King building on the whole legend of Azor Ahai reborn. I'm guessing D&D either didn't want to add more fantasy elements or just couldn't figure out how to set it up with the time limit they imposed on themselves.

    Instead they took a lot of build up surrounding various legends, prophecies, and character histories that they took from the books, hinted at it for the first several seasons, then crumpled them up, and tossed them in the trash.

  16. #27236
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    Well, the show completely abandoned the whole Lord of Light/"Prince that was Promised" angle. One of the themes is all about how magic (dragons, white walkers, resurrections, prophecies, etc) is coming back to a world that has pretty much forgotten it. Even the show introduced various red priests other than just Melisandre and Thoros, but by the end they had all been cast aside and forgotten.

    You are kind of right. I don't think a mortal man (even one who had been brought back from the dead) going hack and slash against such a powerful magical being would have been that much better than a child defeating him with dumb luck. I think there should have been a stronger supernatural opposition to the Night King building on the whole legend of Azor Ahai reborn. I'm guessing D&D either didn't want to add more fantasy elements or just couldn't figure out how to set it up with the time limit they imposed on themselves.

    Instead they took a lot of build up surrounding various legends, prophecies, and character histories that they took from the books, hinted at it for the first several seasons, then crumpled them up, and tossed them in the trash.
    The funny thing is that it wasn't even dumb luck that saved Arya, it was just the Night King's stupidity. He could have literally just tightened his grip to snap Arya's neck, instead he... just stared at her and her knife... Until he was gone.

    That's why Season 8 completely destroyed the Night King's character. Figuratively, because they took one of the smartest villains in TV history and dumbed him down significantly. Literally, because he shattered into pieces.

    But Yes the final season was incredibly rushed and badly-written. I'd say this is clear to 99% of the people on Earth. Like even if you think the season looked good and the plot points were fine conceptually, you can't deny it was rushed.
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  17. #27237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    I don't remember that. Are you talking about the dude that was turned by the Children? That's the same Night King we see later.
    I thought Old Nan talked about it to Bran, or it may have been mentioned among the Night's Watch at some point, or something mentioned by Jojen Reed. I can't remember, so I could be wrong in thinking it made it into the show.

  18. #27238
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    The funny thing is that it wasn't even dumb luck that saved Arya, it was just the Night King's stupidity. He could have literally just tightened his grip to snap Arya's neck, instead he... just stared at her and her knife... Until he was gone.
    Apparently Benioff specified the Night King needed to be stabbed in the same spot where the dragonglass had been pushed into his chest. That's something nobody knew (apparently not even the NK himself). So yeah, it was pure dumb luck that Arya stabbed him in his one weak spot after getting caught. And yeah, they could have written it a million different ways, but the one they picked was "Arya appears out of nowhere, with no knowledge about how to kill the Night King or what would even happen to the other White Walkers, but gets super lucky and everything goes her way anyway".
    Last edited by Adamas102; 2021-05-07 at 08:17 PM.

  19. #27239
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    Apparently Benioff specified the Night King needed to be stabbed in the same spot where the dragonglass had been pushed into his chest. That's something nobody knew (apparently not even the NK himself). So yeah, it was pure dumb luck that Arya stabbed him in his one weak spot after getting caught. And yeah, they could have written it a million different ways, but the one they picked was "Arya appears out of nowhere, with no knowledge about how to kill the Night King or what would even happen to the White Walkers if she succeeded, but gets super lucky and everything goes her way anyway".
    Such a stupid ending to the main antagonistic force of the Westeros universe (A Song of Ice and Fire literally starts with the White Walkers). Honestly it wouldn't surprise me if GRRM is taking so long with the books because he just doesn't know what to do after the Show turned everything and everyone into a joke. Starting from the White Walkers, who were literally exterminated by a teenager.
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  20. #27240
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    Yeah. The nature of the show changed when it became the biggest show on TV and people were crowding out bars watching the next episode. It became event television needing big action and twists and stopped honouring the more realistic and unpredictable parts of the books.

    My personal grievance being the treatment of littlefinger. The mastermind sacrificed so sansa can have her "I'm a bad ass now" scene
    I don't see how anyone can look at and defend Littlefinger's actions with his precious Sansa (essentially giving her up to a known sadist to be raped over and over again), who he obsesses over in the book, which is what prompts a much more subtlle awakening in Sansa of her cunning tactics. Like, the minute he was like, "Yeah, I'm gonna openly marry you to Ramsay Bolton even though you've been on the run for the suspected murder of Joffrey," I knew the show was fucking done and dusted. It doesn't make sense for him personally, or politically.

    Of course, the show ended for me with Arya Terminator-running through the streets of Braavos, getting stabbed in the gut, falling into a dirty canal, and being fine the next day, and then Jaqen being like "lol I guess you're one of us now and can't even be detected again." And that was s5.....coincidentally where the last books leave off (IE, with Arya blind in the House of Black and White).

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