aaargh, dps is sucking

[cabibi64]

71k on heroic halfus 10main
Always top dps in my guild 5/13 Heroic
always.



always.

[Arlee]

Well if you can find one of the top shadow priests who consistantly pull new shadow priest world records, and use him/her as an example instead, your arguement would be much more suitable. I know always isnt the right term to use, but hopefully you get my point.

I can put in more time later and do something like that if you really need it. I don't think that would really prove anything as it depends on the individual a lot. I was mostly just refuting Sly's comment that "Everyone" does better at hit cap, and he apparently thinks that there aren't many shadow priests ranking in the top 50 who are under hit cap. Which I have to assume is an exaggeration because I found all these just looking at top tens, and I wasn't looking very hard either.

[Deleted]

You found multidot fights. You dont miss your dot ticks if you hit with the initial dot. And that is what your main dmg is comming from in those fights. And you found 1 or 2 in top 10. All with very close to 16% hit.

If 1 or 2 of top 10 players "do the right thing" what does the 8-9 others do?

Argument is invalid. I admit you can get high dps. especially on those fights if you are good at multidotting. I did it myself. All im saying is - you get better overall boss fight dps by capping.

Nowadays where MS is a valid aoe spell again - capping is way more preffered too. On maoe fights like maloriak hc and halfus - not capping gimps you like crazy.

And in gods name - Call me Syl. Sly makes me feel all stalloney like in a weird way

[Arlee]

In a nutshell:

If you are trading more int and more haste for the hit you are dropping, your dps WILL go up overall if you can handle noticing when you miss a spell, you don't have high latency, and you generally have good awareness. The likely hood of you missing a spell you can't immediately recast if you miss... like MB... is low compared, on ANY fight, how often we cast every other spell. Even if we do miss a MB, missing 1 100k spell in a fight where you will be doing multiple millions of damage across a fight is negligible.

You can't say "well if you were hit capped than you wouldn't have missed so your dps would have been higher" because you have to take in account the loss of int and haste a person would have had if they had gotten hit capped.

This is exactly why you can not say "everyone" would see a dps increase if they get hit capped.

---------- Post added 2011-05-19 at 05:19 PM ----------

Also, logically, if what you are saying is correct wouldn't the spriests that are below hit cap do even worse than all the capped spriests out there on multidotting fights? The more often you have to cast the more chances you have to miss spells right?

[Deleted]

First off - You cant reforge intellect. So you cant "choose" hit over intellect. Only by gemming but thats not an option - as i clearly stated.

And as i said before - always gem for int. And reforge to haste. But i refuse to belive that in your BiS setup you cant reforge mastery and crit (along with the initial spirit and hit you have on your BiS gear) to reach the hitcap.

If you refuse to go for cap - you will never know.

I have raidet normal and HC, 25 man and 10 man, with and without cap. I say - ppl will benefit from cap. You disagree. But if you have not tried it - its hard to argue against you. And ill stop.

And just for your calculation: If you miss a 100k MB out of 10 million dmg thats 1% dmg missed. By that one spell alone. I refuse to belive that 100 mastery you need to reforge getting from 16% to 17% will secure you 1% overall dmg. Most fights are 6-8 mill dmg. Thats even larger portion missed - dmg lost.

[spiralout]

You found multidot fights. You dont miss your dot ticks if you hit with the initial dot. And that is what your main dmg is comming from in those fights.

And where is the majority of your damage coming from on non-multidot fights? Yep, those same periodics, not MB and SWD, though this might change in the future, it's been true since Cata release til now. You say you get better overall boss fight dps by capping, this is incorrect. You get more CONSISTENT dps by capping, not necessarily better dps.

Nowadays where MS is a valid aoe spell again - capping is way more preffered too. On maoe fights like maloriak hc and halfus - not capping gimps you like crazy.

Aren't the drakes and whelps on Halfus all level 87 or lower? Pretty sure pillaring MS off Halfus while he has the +dmg taken debuff doesn't affect it's other ticks on whelps, so less than 17% hit is needed there.

As far as missing a 100k MB, and it being 1% of the damage on a 10mil dmg fight, the DpET on my DP is not too far behind the damage of that MB, with my VT doing about 66k DpET, so I dont find it hard to believe that over the course of a boss fight, that extra 100 mastery will more than make up for it, and 100k is a best possible case MB anyway, 3 orbs and dark evang popped, which rarely happens.
If you prefer to raid at 17%, that all good, but not everyone does, and being at hit cap does not guarantee better dps, it means more consistent dps. It's, like you said, preference, so when I see statements like your "Every end game player will see increase in dps by capping" it kind of pisses me off.

[Arlee]

First off - You cant reforge intellect. So you cant "choose" hit over intellect. Only by gemming but thats not an option - as i clearly stated.

Actually you can if you decide to stay with a lower ilvl item instead of upgrading because you would fall under hit cap if you took the higher ilvl piece.

And as i said before - always gem for int. And reforge to haste. But i refuse to belive that in your BiS setup you cant reforge mastery and crit (along with the initial spirit and hit you have on your BiS gear) to reach the hitcap.

It absolutely is possible to reforge those to hit, but that would actually be a dps loss for some people, due to the fact that how big of a deal hit cap is for a shadow priest depends on a lot of factors that are completely dependent on the individual playing the priest.

If you refuse to go for cap - you will never know.

I never said that people shouldn't try getting hit cap and seeing what it does for them personally. It is also a good idea to try going under and seeing what it does. The only thing I said was to state "getting hit cap is a dps increase for everyone" is wrong... which is actual fact.

I have raidet normal and HC, 25 man and 10 man, with and without cap. I say - ppl will benefit from cap. You disagree. But if you have not tried it - its hard to argue against you. And ill stop.

You have completely misinterpreted what I am saying. I personally prefer to be right at 17% hit. Going over is a complete waste, and I really do not like going below 16%. That is my personal preference. It's great that you have tried both, and hit cap works best for you. However, again you can't (legitimately) make the claim that your personal experience is true for every spriest out there.

And just for your calculation: If you miss a 100k MB out of 10 million dmg thats 1% dmg missed. By that one spell alone. I refuse to belive that 100 mastery you need to reforge getting from 16% to 17% will secure you 1% overall dmg. Most fights are 6-8 mill dmg. Thats even larger portion missed - dmg lost.

You are assuming you are losing mastery to get to hit cap which as I stated above is not always the case. Yes if you miss a MB you miss out on (going with the 6 mill overall) 1.6% of your dps. However, in a fight where you are casting 89 spells that aren't MB compared to only 8 mind blast, you only have a 9% chance that your miss would possibly even happen on a MB. Then in addition most people only go about 1-2% under hitcap, which means the chances of missing a MB is even smaller.

I'll say it again though. My only point is it is invalid to claim that everyone would increase their dps by getting hit cap.

[Deleted]

Right - you're going too far saying reforging mastery to hit is a DPS loss. Simcraft does recast VT (or DP) as the next spell instantly if it's about to fall off. If a player does that, they're doing it wrong: Due to the way the spell queue works, you will have begun casting your next mindflay already. Hit and mastery/crit are close enough to hit on simcraft's numbers that hit is going to be worth more than them with the way players (ab)use the spell queue.