[Movies] The Hobbit Trilogy (Possible Spoilers)

[Kelato]

The Hobbit Triology is ok for me, so far.
IMO it doesn't reach the greatness of the LOTR Trology because the action and the effects are too flashy at the expense of
a good story telling but I'm ok with that for the most part.
However, there is some rather minor detail in DOS which seems to bother me quite a lot:
At the end of the first movie we have Thorin apologize to Bilbo telling him how wrong he was and what a worthy asset he is to the group.
During DOS Bilbo saves the group from being eaten alive by spiders as well as being locked up for eternity by the elves. He also is the reason they were able to open the secret door into the Erebor instead of failing the whole expedition. So now when Bilbo is inside with Smaug and the Dwarves on the outside hear the rumbling the old Dwarf says something like "we should help him" to which Thorin replies something along the lines of "I don't care if he dies, he is just a thief".

I mean WTF is wrong with you Thorin? Not only did Bilbo save your ass several times, he is also the reason you didn't dismiss the whole mission. In addition, not so long ago you told him what an worthy asset he is to the group.
And now you disregard him like that? Oh and btw, he is supposed to steal something for YOU not for himself.
The whole thing seemed so illogical and out of character at that point that it ruined the character of Thorin and some part of the movie to me.

Anyboby else here got the same impression?

[xylophone]

The Hobbit Triology is ok for me, so far.
IMO it doesn't reach the greatness of the LOTR Trology because the action and the effects are too flashy at the expense of
a good story telling but I'm ok with that for the most part.
However, there is some rather minor detail in DOS which seems to bother me quite a lot:
At the end of the first movie we have Thorin apologize to Bilbo telling him how wrong he was and what a worthy asset he is to the group.
During DOS Bilbo saves the group from being eaten alive by spiders as well as being locked up for eternity by the elves. He also is the reason they were able to open the secret door into the Erebor instead of failing the whole expedition. So now when Bilbo is inside with Smaug and the Dwarves on the outside hear the rumbling the old Dwarf says something like "we should help him" to which Thorin replies something along the lines of "I don't care if he dies, he is just a thief".

I mean WTF is wrong with you Thorin? Not only did Bilbo save your ass several times, he is also the reason you didn't dismiss the whole mission. In addition, not so long ago you told him what an worthy asset he is to the group.
And now you disregard him like that? Oh and btw, he is supposed to steal something for YOU not for himself.
The whole thing seemed so illogical and out of character at that point that it ruined the character of Thorin and some part of the movie to me.

Anyboby else here got the same impression?

They mentioned a few times in the movie that the Arkenstone had a One Ring-esque effect on Thorin and his kin.

[Kelato]

Really? First or second movie?
I only remember it was mentioned that the Arkenstone is an important relic for the dwarves and that they are somewhat greedy when it comes to mineral deposits but i can't recall where it was said that the Arkenstone has the ability to obscure someone's mind like the ring can do.

[xylophone]

Really? First or second movie?
I only remember it was mentioned that the Arkenstone is an important relic for the dwarves and that they are somewhat greedy when it comes to mineral deposits but i can't recall where it was said that the Arkenstone has the ability to obscure someone's mind like the ring can do.

A few times in DoS, Smaug even made reference to it. He said something to Bilbo like "I'm almost tempted to let you take it so I can see it consume him."

[Kelato]

Ok, but would it really be enough to explain his notion towards Bilbo when he was waiting with his dwarves outside the Erebor?
I mean he didn't possess the Arkenstone for a long time like it was the case with Gollum and the ring. He also didn't carry it around for some time like Frodo so I'm not quite sure there was an opportunity his mind could be manipulated by the stone like that.

[DeathKnight Guy]

Was any one slightly disappointed by the Bjorn scene? I wish they fleshed it out a bit more, they made him seem more of a crazed beast than a man with such a power. I liked the way the book portrayed him. Though I do understand the movie must be different than the book.

Also did any one else imagine Bjorn differently haha? I always imagined him as some really buff large man, something a long the lines of a human Rexxar.

[Northy]

Like that would stop Peter! The way he plays around with Tolkien's works..

People forget about Tolkien's open letter stating how he was hoping his stories and Middle-Earth universe would be taken, expanded, and made into even more greater narratives. I feel like Tolkien would not mind the changes, as minor as they are imo. Frankly I'm surprised no one since Tolkien has taken up the Middle-Earth mantle given how he was hoping people would.

[Arrowstormen]

Obviously they wanted more excitement, so they used a chase instead of the "Dwarf by dwarf introduction" of the book. And the animals serving them food on hindlegs might have looked ridiculous. But all in all, yes..I wished that sequence was longer and did imagine him more like Rexxar.

The elves...now that was a point where I wish they made the Hobbit first and then we get to see them in Lothlorien in LotR. They are so much about trees, yet here they seem to almost live like dwarves underground. Again...close to the book and having dungeons to lock the dwarves in, but it felt odd and possibly an indication that not everything written translates well to film. Even though they added all these tree elements underground.

BTW: What was the tranformation thingy with Tranduils face? Yuk? Scarred by dragon but he can will himself to grow perfect skin? Made him look like some freak.

Other thing: The place that Gandalf visited? That looked like a prison, but where the inmates exploded through the doors. Kinda missed the significance 'cause I watched it in english and that was lost on me in the mumbling of the old guys .... Did the Ringwraith exist there? Pre-Ringwraithy existence? A prison? A tomb?

And why can Gandalf telepathically talk with Galadriel in Mirkwood, but in Dol Gundur he needs to sen Radagast as a messenger back to her?

I think it's an illusion he's got over his face. Also, obviously more Beorn in EE.

And yes, it's the tomb of the Ringwraiths.

He can't talk with Galadriel in the forest, it's a voice-flashback to AUJ.

[Zoranon]

Obviously they wanted more excitement, so they used a chase instead of the "Dwarf by dwarf introduction" of the book. And the animals serving them food on hindlegs might have looked ridiculous. But all in all, yes..I wished that sequence was longer and did imagine him more like Rexxar.

The elves...now that was a point where I wish they made the Hobbit first and then we get to see them in Lothlorien in LotR. They are so much about trees, yet here they seem to almost live like dwarves underground. Again...close to the book and having dungeons to lock the dwarves in, but it felt odd and possibly an indication that not everything written translates well to film. Even though they added all these tree elements underground.

BTW: What was the tranformation thingy with Tranduils face? Yuk? Scarred by dragon but he can will himself to grow perfect skin? Made him look like some freak.

Other thing: The place that Gandalf visited? That looked like a prison, but where the inmates exploded through the doors. Kinda missed the significance 'cause I watched it in english and that was lost on me in the mumbling of the old guys .... Did the Ringwraith exist there? Pre-Ringwraithy existence? A prison? A tomb?

And why can Gandalf telepathically talk with Galadriel in Mirkwood, but in Dol Gundur he needs to sen Radagast as a messenger back to her?

Given that there was constant action, the scene would be out of place in the movie, it is a pity though.

Apparently some spell yes, but given that Thranduil is not a wizard, it is a little odd.

I think it was meant to be a tomb/prison for the Nazghul. Now how you want to bury something that has no body is another thing.

Plot, in Two towers Galadriel seemed able to talk with Elrond with no problems, I guess you could argue that the proximity to Sauron was hindering any communications. The better question would be why Gandalf actually went into Dol Guldur alone, given that he already pretty much knew who the necromancer really was.

[Kelato]

And why didn't Sauron/the orcs kill Gandalf once he was defeated and his staff was destroyed (again). Instead they just put him in a cage.
Makes no sense to me.

[Arlee]

Ok, but would it really be enough to explain his notion towards Bilbo when he was waiting with his dwarves outside the Erebor?
I mean he didn't possess the Arkenstone for a long time like it was the case with Gollum and the ring. He also didn't carry it around for some time like Frodo so I'm not quite sure there was an opportunity his mind could be manipulated by the stone like that.

It was foreshadowing what is to come for Thorin.

Ever since being run out of Erebor the focus of Thorin's life has been reclaiming that which was taken from him and his kind. You don't need a powerful magical artifact for something like that to consume a person. He was able when they were still far away to see the value of Bilbo. But now that they are there and it's nearly in his grasp (remember possession of the Arcenstone grants the right to rule the dwarves) it blinds him again, but he is able to shake it off. In the next movie it gets worse. After he obtains it and possession of Erebor, he turns his back on all that look to him for help. He even turns his back on Bard and the humans of Laketown even though he told them they would share in the riches if his task was successful. Also don't forget it is only because of Bard that Smaug doesn't come back and eat the dwarves. All of this culminates in Bilbo pointing out to Throin how he has changed and that he should be trying to help the other races and not preparing to go to war with them. Thorin responds by calling Bilbo a coward and casting him out. It's a tragic moment because that's when you realize Throin really has lost himself. But that is what the stuff in this movie were foreshadowing. It'll be interesting to see how things are resolved with the dwarves who were left behind in Laketown.

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And why didn't Sauron/the orcs kill Gandalf once he was defeated and his staff was destroyed (again). Instead they just put him in a cage.
Makes no sense to me.

The orcs can't actually kill Gandalf, he's not mortal. Also Sauron was not at all at full strength yet. He's not even as strong as he is during the LOTR time period yet.

[Zoranon]

And why didn't Sauron/the orcs kill Gandalf once he was defeated and his staff was destroyed (again). Instead they just put him in a cage.
Makes no sense to me.

Mostly plot again I think, but you could say that Sauron wanted to enslave Gandalf, but given that Sauron was not aware of the continued existence of One, it does not make much sense.

[Arrowstormen]

Mostly plot again I think, but you could say that Sauron wanted to enslave Gandalf, but given that Sauron was not aware of the continued existence of One, it does not make much sense.

What are you talking about, of course Sauron know the One Ring is out there, the ring existing is the only reason he's more than an invisible angry spirit.

[Arlee]

What are you talking about, of course Sauron know the One Ring is out there, the ring existing is the only reason he's more than an invisible angry spirit.

Pretty much much that... hence the whole thing about Isuldir needing to destroy the ring to beat Sauron for good... because he didn't Sauron was able to return.

[Zoranon]

What are you talking about, of course Sauron know the One Ring is out there, the ring existing is the only reason he's more than an invisible angry spirit.

Fellowship of the Ring, page 68:" And this is the dreadful chance, Frodo. He believed that the One has perished, that the Elves had destroyed it."

I know what I am talking about.

[Arrowstormen]

Fellowship of the Ring, page 68:" And this is the dreadful chance, Frodo. He believed that the One has perished, that the Elves had destroyed it."

I know what I am talking about.

I cannot find this line.

EDIT: Found it, researching it.

[Deleted]

They mentioned a few times in the movie that the Arkenstone had a One Ring-esque effect on Thorin and his kin.

I think it's one of the rings that Sauron gave dwarves, Thorin probably has one.

[Zoranon]

I think it's one of the rings that Sauron gave dwarves, Thorin probably has one.

In the book, it was the last of the seven rings that had destroyed Thrain and Thror. But Thorin had never worn it, because Thrain had never given it to him before being captured by Sauron.

[Deleted]

In the next movie it gets worse. After he obtains it and possession of Erebor, he turns his back on all that look to him for help. He even turns his back on Bard and the humans of Laketown even though he told them they would share in the riches if his task was successful. Also don't forget it is only because of Bard that Smaug doesn't come back and eat the dwarves. All of this culminates in Bilbo pointing out to Throin how he has changed and that he should be trying to help the other races and not preparing to go to war with them. Thorin responds by calling Bilbo a coward and casting him out. It's a tragic moment because that's when you realize Throin really has lost himself. But that is what the stuff in this movie were foreshadowing. It'll be interesting to see how things are resolved with the dwarves who were left behind in Laketown.

Eh...the spoiler was the part you didn't mark with black...the part you marked is from the book n we have known for many decades..

Thorin probably meant he would trade with the people of laketown and in time it would give them prosperity, not that they could come marching in with an army right into the treasure chamber, that would make anyone suspicious.. They should have made a list of demands, exact claims and not simply demand they are let in. With all that wealth they might "miss-calculate"... the dwarves were robbed by Smaug, they don't want to be robbed again. I for one sided completely with Thorin. Trust the men of laketown? They are greedy, hostile, and led a slimy politician, I don't think Bard would be able to control that mob once inside Erebor's treasure chamber...

Just when Erebor becomes free n its wealth is back in dw0rf hands, an army comes by demanding to be let in.

And Bilbo...to hell with that bastard...the Arkenstone was a family heirloom, it belong's to Thorin's family, none else, there's plenty of other treasure he could have taken but he takes the Arkenstone and doesn't reveal his find, gives it away to the invading army...at first he wanted it for himself...talk about disrespecting Thorin's family...I'm guessing it's the one ring that's corrupting him? Otherwise he would have given the arkenstone immediately to Thorin? Or there's just too much Took in him..

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In the book, it was the last of the seven rings that had destroyed Thrain and Thror. But Thorin had never worn it, because Thrain had never given it to him before being captured by Sauron.

That ring is presumed lost, maybe Thorin does have it...why else would he become changed, corrupted, greedy like his father n grandfather?

[Zoranon]

That ring is presumed lost, maybe Thorin does have it...why else would he become changed, corrupted, greedy like his father n grandfather?

Are you refering to book or the movie? Because in the book the ring is already in Saurons possession.

As for the movie, this is addressed in the EE: During the white council meeting, Gandalf mentions that both Thrain and the ring vanished without a trace.