[Megathread] Skyrim Discussion

[Chaochamp]

Is anyone afraid of getting on Skyrim? I don't want to encounter some bug that'll remove items from a chest. The whole 'broken more than fix' quality of this patch really makes me not want to log on o_o.

[Creatinebrah]

People keep bringing this up in defense of bad balance in Skyrim. "well why dont you just avoid these powerful talents?" ; "why dont you avoid alchemy, enchanting and smithing", "why dont u avoid sneak talents, or go completely naked"

Yeah its players job to limit himself to create a challenge, aswell as choose not to make free choices in a game that promotes choice in order to have challenge and not become overpowered?

Suffice to say even thou it annoys me i still do create challenge and i still love this game, because it is indeed a good game, but that shouldnt make people Oblivious to its flaws.

a videogame has bugs? jee, didn't know bugs and flaws exist in a videogame. find me a videogame with 0 bugs and i will paypal you $1000

[Neeshka]

wait wait wait wait wait...wait.

blizzard, good gameplay? when I played wow, especially pve, it was: wipe, wipe, wipe wipe > wait for kids to take a break > wipe wipe wipe > kill boss > get out rolled > call it a night after 2-3hours of mindless annoyance. rinse and repeat for next raid and beyond.

pvp was: sit in 10min que with 2 afkers, 1 botter > be top dps and most completed obj > LOSE and gain only 100 honor. rinse and repeat til you exit out of boredom.

all games can be boring if you wish them to be. you're complaining about the game being too easy, and complaining that money is too easy to get. well, heres a genius thought? why don't you avoid using these 'easy' methods to acquire gold and easy leveling?

You probably do not understand what gameplay means in a combat oriented rpg.

Overall aim or purpose =/= gameplay.

Gameplay is a term that describes mostly concrete things like the actual combat mechanics; flow of abilities, UI, game balance, scaling, lack of bugs, challenge and game difficulty, immersion & suspension of disbelief, resource management, interaction with the environment and the quality of the video game as a piece of software.

Bethesda games tend to completely fail on all these fronts relative to other AAA titles.

[Valeron]

Is anyone afraid of getting on Skyrim? I don't want to encounter some bug that'll remove items from a chest. The whole 'broken more than fix' quality of this patch really makes me not want to log on o_o.

It can be frustrating. I've had to use the console to "fix" several quests now.

[Blznsmri]

Is anyone afraid of getting on Skyrim? I don't want to encounter some bug that'll remove items from a chest. The whole 'broken more than fix' quality of this patch really makes me not want to log on o_o.

I had it remove one of my swords, then dupe the other without any magic charge when I went beast mode. But it was no biggy, I made the sword. (on my Wood Elf Mohawk archer thief)

Now I'm playing a Fem Nord Zerker. Dual axes with Soul Trap enchants. Unintentional woman jokes are funnnnn.

[Neeshka]

Well, that's what happens when you make a game with a ton of choices. Obviously some of those choices are going to vary greatly in effectiveness. The balance is basically irrelevant, and if people didn't look online, they probably wouldn't immediately discover things like how completely retarded Alch is with it's bizarre interactions. Might as well be cheat codes to be honest.

Balance can't be "irrelevant".
It's very very obvious after playing the game for less than an hour that magic, sneak and bow&arrows are underpowered. It just takes very basic observational skills.
It's also very obvious that potions will be used a lot and give huge buffs; hence alchemy.
The exact same can be said about smithing and enchanting; it's only logical to pick these if you have played any rpg's in the past.
dual wielding naturally "looks cool" so many people will go for this; i did so personally. The ridiculous damage output is evident early on. Why would you intentionally choose an underpowered setup ? I really don't get it.

a videogame has bugs? jee, didn't know bugs and flaws exist in a videogame. find me a videogame with 0 bugs and i will paypal you $1000

It's not about just bugs; it's very big game design issues that hamper the gaming experience. If you aren't irritated by some of the things I mentioned you are either too forgiving or not critical at all. I just can't fathom how the UI,combat,inventory system and companion system isn't rage-inducing for everybody.

Games like deus ex, dragon age and witcher 2 all had very good game balance and a notable lack of bugs. For example there are a huge number of group comps in dragon age that are perfectly viable; and every fight would pose a challenge to a sensible group. Fights in good games are challenging, but doable. Even ancient games like baldur's gate 2 got this concept; but bethesda apparently can't.

About bugs; just pick any recent blizzard game and point out gigantic bugs.

Bethesda has huge bugs in the main quest; I'm not sure how that could even get past QA.

[Rocketsurgeon]

The confusion I have is when people devote equal hours to crafting the ultimate gear as they do to the main quest itself and then bemoan how powerful they are. If you devote that kind of time to decking yourself out, in this kind of game, you're usually going to be blatantly overpowered. Balance isn't much of an issue. Yes, melee is more powerful than magic. Stealth combat becomes insanely powerful once you put some time into it. Combat in Skyrim is not what I'd call great. I downloaded a mod to add in an extra tier of spells to help the curve in Destruction.
The comparison to Blizzard I don't see as valid. WoW has a tendency to punish leaving the guided tour, its story line is abysmal, and it's balance isn't directly comparable as its a different genre with completely different implications when it comes to player balance. WoW combat and gameplay isn't divine, either. Many, many players have to force themselves through various parts of the game to get to a point where they're allowed to have fun. I see something I don't want to do in Skyrim? I thumb my nose at it and do something else.

The flaws are obvious and the bugs are ever looming, but its a ride worth taking a couple times back to back and the mod community is already pumping out tons of good stuff well before they've even touched the tools to empower their doing so. Good times.

[Zafire]

Oh snap..I didn't even know you could self-enchant "Sneaks better" on gear. 5/5 sneak really is pointless :/ You only need 60 enchanting to get much better results than gear gets you too. (With perks, of course.)

[Umbra]

Balance can't be "irrelevant".
It's very very obvious after playing the game for less than an hour that magic, sneak and bow&arrows are underpowered.

I'll give you magic, but as I can regularly three- or four-shot most things, if I don't one-shot them, with my bow even after at least 25 hours into this character, I don't really see where you're coming from.

[Deleted]

Bugs, I won't go into much detail, but the entire markath zone bugging out and being hostile after a quest (until i did the stormcloak chain and conquered it), dragons stuck in mid-air, suddenly swimming in zones. Weird and buggy steal/wanted system.

I'm not going to start fighting with you, because opinions are opinions. But I do have to say something about that ''bug'' you mentioned, because it isn't a bug. Markarth is indeed hostile after a certain quest, and it is meant to happen. So, not a bug.

Also, just started a new character. Going for a warrior after playing an archer thief. I'm also planning on joining the Empire this time. But we'll see.

And am I the only one who has totally lost their interest in WoW after playing Skyrim? The only thing I do in WoW is raiding... And it feels more like a job now. I'm seriously thinking of unsubscribing. WoW's world just feels so dead, because nothing really happens. And I don't need to care about others in Skyrim. I can do what I want, I can go out with my friends without trying to explain it to some angry guildies.

[shadowkras]

The exact same can be said about smithing and enchanting; it's only logical to pick these if you have played any rpg's in the past.
dual wielding naturally "looks cool" so many people will go for this; i did so personally. The ridiculous damage output is evident early on. Why would you intentionally choose an underpowered setup ? I really don't get it.

Why would you intentionally choose a known overpowered setup? I really dont get it.

[Neeshka]

The confusion I have is when people devote equal hours to crafting the ultimate gear as they do to the main quest itself and then bemoan how powerful they are. If you devote that kind of time to decking yourself out, in this kind of game, you're usually going to be blatantly overpowered. Balance isn't much of an issue. Yes, melee is more powerful than magic. Stealth combat becomes insanely powerful once you put some time into it. Combat in Skyrim is not what I'd call great. I downloaded a mod to add in an extra tier of spells to help the curve in Destruction.

It takes less than an hour to realize that magic is horrible and dual wielding is very strong. Traditionally rpg's encourage you to build a powerful character; I don't get why I shouldn't "because it's bethesda".

The comparison to Blizzard I don't see as valid. WoW has a tendency to punish leaving the guided tour, its story line is abysmal, and it's balance isn't directly comparable as its a different genre with completely different implications when it comes to player balance. WoW combat and gameplay isn't divine, either. Many, many players have to force themselves through various parts of the game to get to a point where they're allowed to have fun. I see something I don't want to do in Skyrim? I thumb my nose at it and do something else.

Again it's not about the overall game or the ultimate aim of the games. The problem with skyrim is moment-moment gameplay. Which is abysmal. In WoW moment-moment gameplay is incredibly good after about level 30 or so.
Combat in skyrim is ALWAYS running forward and holding down left/right mouse buttons. It's EXACTLY the same for rats, wolves, bandits and all the way up to dragons, draugr deathlords and giants. There is no variation, no skill, no reactive or proc abilities or test of your reactions.

This is where any other developer completely demolishes bethesda. Every game developer understands that video game combat is important, and should be rewarding, challenging and should evolve over the years. Bethesda doesn't.

Skyrim creates a beautiful nordic world, with significant exploration opportunities. But that's where it ends. It's a hiking and collecting simulator and nothing more. In every single other aspect of technical gampeplay parameters it just falls flat.

10/10 for world building and artistic style for the environments but probably 3/10 for everything else.

How this game can get 9.5s or higher is totally absurd.

---------- Post added 2011-12-03 at 11:00 AM ----------

Why would you intentionally choose a known overpowered setup? I really dont get it.

Why would you intentionally choose an underpowered setup? I really dont get it.

[suttie]

Why would you intentionally choose an underpowered setup? I really dont get it.

This is a single player game. You should just be playing whatever you have the most fun with.

[Deleted]

The confusion I have is when people devote equal hours to crafting the ultimate gear as they do to the main quest itself and then bemoan how powerful they are. If you devote that kind of time to decking yourself out, in this kind of game, you're usually going to be blatantly overpowered. Balance isn't much of an issue. Yes, melee is more powerful than magic. Stealth combat becomes insanely powerful once you put some time into it. Combat in Skyrim is not what I'd call great. I downloaded a mod to add in an extra tier of spells to help the curve in Destruction.
The comparison to Blizzard I don't see as valid. WoW has a tendency to punish leaving the guided tour, its story line is abysmal, and it's balance isn't directly comparable as its a different genre with completely different implications when it comes to player balance. WoW combat and gameplay isn't divine, either. Many, many players have to force themselves through various parts of the game to get to a point where they're allowed to have fun. I see something I don't want to do in Skyrim? I thumb my nose at it and do something else.

The flaws are obvious and the bugs are ever looming, but its a ride worth taking a couple times back to back and the mod community is already pumping out tons of good stuff well before they've even touched the tools to empower their doing so. Good times.

Actually it is how you play it I think. I'm playing on master, everything allowed except console commands and cheats, including buffing my gear through the roof but with only one rule, if I die I have to start over:P And I'm finding it extremely fun and challenging.

However, there are a few things I don't like about crafting. For example, enchanting is too easy to get up and some enchants make the items a bit too expensive.. and then there is smithing. It works fine with more expensive items but I think spamming daggers and other low material cost items should give less skill.

[Neeshka]

I'm not going to start fighting with you, because opinions are opinions. But I do have to say something about that ''bug'' you mentioned, because it isn't a bug. Markarth is indeed hostile after a certain quest, and it is meant to happen. So, not a bug.

Markath quest bug is very very well documented and posted on multiple forums. There are numerous game breaking bugs posted all over the internet many of which bethesda has admitted to and plans on fixing in the future. But how do bugs in the MAIN QUEST get through QA ? Isn't that a sign of developer laziness ?

Anyway about markath; a quest has you investigate a murder. Once you figure out who is responsible guards approach you and want to take you to jail.
The options they give you are :
1. Go to jail.
2. Claim innocence and fight them.

If you don't give in and fight them the entire zone starts bugging out and it's not until you completely finish the stormcloak chain and conquer the city that you can safely quest there again.
After finishing the prison quest all the guards and the jarl/elves in the throne room are hostile.
You can kill all the guards but there are a few unkillable npc's in the throne room.
Finally when you come to the stormcloak quest you come back here and kill about 15 guards, and then go into the throne room. The npc you need to talk to for the caraven quest part of the stormcloak chain is unkillable along with a female npc and a male armored npc. You have to "kill" the other 2 and kite the quest npc to a room on the right and close the door. Once he's almost dead you can unsheath your weapon and talk to him and finish the quest. The snag here is the unkillable npc pair stay crouched for a few seconds so there is a ton of kiting around that room.

OBVIOUSLY this is a bug. anyway there's lots of documentation, frustration and possible fixes for bugs like this.

Another frustrating bug is the esben bug where he stays locked up in his prison in Riften "cornered rat" quest. The door doesn't open there is no dialogue and the main quest cannot progress.

Great bethesda, a gigantic bug in the MAIN QUEST OF a AAA GAME..........

This is on the PC version and happens to everyone that does it. Bethesda forgot to unpack some of their own zip files lololol.
The fix and bug are documented quite well here : http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:A_Cornered_Rat

---------- Post added 2011-12-03 at 11:15 AM ----------

This is a single player game. You should just be playing whatever you have the most fun with.

I have fun with choosing an optimal build that is fairly obvious. I played dragon age 1 with 2 mages in my group. It just felt right. Choosing a strong build shouldn't be punished with terrible gameplay.

Either way no matter what build you choose combat in the game doesn't get better or anything; neither does it change based on the enemy type or level.

[Zafire]

It takes less than an hour to realize that magic is horrible and dual wielding is very strong. Traditionally rpg's encourage you to build a powerful character; I don't get why I shouldn't "because it's bethesda".

Actually, if you go back to 11/11/11 - 11/14/11 in this post, you'll see a ton of people claim that Dual Wielding is horrible because you couldn't block, nothing was too great about the damage output, and is the worst thing that was ever implemented in any RPG.

Weird how the times have changed lol

[Neeshka]

Actually, if you go back to 11/11/11 - 11/14/11 in this post, you'll see a ton of people claim that Dual Wielding is horrible because you couldn't block, nothing was too great about the damage output, and is the worst thing that was ever implemented in any RPG.

Weird how the times have changed lol

Probably at lower levels (20 or less). Basically once you get higher end armor with enchants and a reasonable alchemy skill (=tons of pots), incoming damage becomes irrelevant.

Early on in the game enemy balance is really bad; where a lot of enemies kill you in 2-3 hits. At around level 8 or 9 I did the main quest that sends you to the old guys on top of the mountain and was getting wrecked by ice trolls. Once you cross a certain threshold level everything becomes a joke.

People posted 1h was bad because they just started playing or at least sub level 15; so the lack of defense with 1h is that much more noticeable.

But yea it's quite amusing.

[Zafire]

Probably at lower levels (20 or less). Basically once you get higher end armor with enchants and a reasonable alchemy skill (=tons of pots), incoming damage becomes irrelevant.

Early on in the game enemy balance is really bad; where a lot of enemies kill you in 2-3 hits. At around level 8 or 9 I did the main quest that sends you to the old guys on top of the mountain and was getting wrecked by ice trolls. Once you cross a certain threshold level everything becomes a joke.

People posted 1h was bad because they just started playing or at least sub level 15; so the lack of defense with 1h is that much more noticeable.

But yea it's quite amusing.

I haven't played not dual wielding, so I don't know how it is otherwise.

My biggest pet peeve about this game, is how all the most sophisticated antagonists conveniently keep a journal documenting all their evil deeds. They explain where they go, how to get in where they're at, what the password is, etc. It seems more unrealistic than dragons and shooting fireballs.

[Deleted]

Not really. Why would they make the assassin who killed the last Emperor an Emperor?

good job for spoiling idiot... thank you!

[Deleted]

good job for spoiling idiot... thank you!

Good job repeating the spoiler 40 pages later, to make sure anyone who hasn't noticed it earlier catches it now.