1. #22441

  2. #22442
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBacchus View Post
    I most definately approve of that. It looks very cool the new changes.

    Current state is completely stupid. That might actually make him less of an annoyance, less overpowered and more of an actual champion.

    Allthough thinking about it... 10 stacks, or even 7 or 8, might be hard to accomplish in a teamfight. Hmm.
    Last edited by mmocfaf6580671; 2013-01-15 at 03:16 PM.

  3. #22443
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    Atleast it wont make trading against Darius such a painful experience for some champions. And it would seem he wont deal true damage with his ulti anymore either. Happy Poppy here~~

  4. #22444
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tenhou View Post
    Atleast it wont make trading against Darius such a painful experience for some champions. And it would seem he wont deal true damage with his ulti anymore either. Happy Poppy here~~
    Yeah, that will be nerf even with 100% armor penetration on it. It's also buff to Urgot :s.

  5. #22445
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBacchus View Post
    Meh, I don't own him but I've played a few times against him and I don't understand all the fuss. I just hope this "rework" won't just make him completely worthless. :/

  6. #22446
    The Lightbringer Axethor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBacchus View Post
    Not gonna lie, I don't like it. Darius doesn't suffer from lack of counter play because of his kit, he suffers from it because he is melee with a shitty gap closer. All melee like Darius have the same problem. They can be kited for days, but when they get you you are most definitely dead. Now, by forcing fights to be more drawn out against Darius they make it way easier to escape him, which wasn't hard to begin with. It would be a free win top lane for any ranged champ, where currently he can at least kill them if they screw up.

    Change this, you break Darius. He goes from Garen 2.0 to Garen's retarded, useless brother.

  7. #22447
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axethor View Post
    Not gonna lie, I don't like it. Darius doesn't suffer from lack of counter play because of his kit, he suffers from it because he is melee with a shitty gap closer. All melee like Darius have the same problem. They can be kited for days, but when they get you you are most definitely dead. Now, by forcing fights to be more drawn out against Darius they make it way easier to escape him, which wasn't hard to begin with. It would be a free win top lane for any ranged champ, where currently he can at least kill them if they screw up.

    Change this, you break Darius. He goes from Garen 2.0 to Garen's retarded, useless brother.
    Please make a list of other melee champions that get's kited for days and then instantly kills the target once reached. I beg you. Please.

    And yes, he DOES in fact very much suffer from lack of counter-play. As a melee against him, you have NO ROOM at ALL to counter-play him. Unless you have a Dash/Jump where you can juke his Q poke, but even after it's juked; Darius willl STILL WIN TRADES.

    I don't mean to be rude, but you sound a lot like this dumbass: na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2835919

    It wouldn't be a free-win, it'd just be hard for Darius to win the lane. But hey, god forbid that Darius has any counters. Right?

  8. #22448
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackroo View Post
    Please make a list of other melee champions that get's kited for days and then instantly kills the target once reached. I beg you. Please.

    And yes, he DOES in fact very much suffer from lack of counter-play. As a melee against him, you have NO ROOM at ALL to counter-play him. Unless you have a Dash/Jump where you can juke his Q poke, but even after it's juked; Darius willl STILL WIN TRADES.

    I don't mean to be rude, but you sound a lot like this dumbass: na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2835919

    It wouldn't be a free-win, it'd just be hard for Darius to win the lane. But hey, god forbid that Darius has any counters. Right?
    Dude why are you always so aggressive in your posts? You can disagree without being a dick.

  9. #22449
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    I don't play Darius at all, but I'm quite scared of them trying to change him, he's in a good place right now. He's definitely NOT the OP bullshit some people claim him to be, he's somewhere right around "good". Even so, he can get countered hard by most ranged-capable champs whose players don't suck donkey balls, I think the problem stems from the fact that at low skill level play, a bad Darius can beat a bad -insert pretty much anything here-.

  10. #22450
    The Lightbringer Axethor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackroo View Post
    Please make a list of other melee champions that get's kited for days and then instantly kills the target once reached. I beg you. Please.

    And yes, he DOES in fact very much suffer from lack of counter-play. As a melee against him, you have NO ROOM at ALL to counter-play him. Unless you have a Dash/Jump where you can juke his Q poke, but even after it's juked; Darius willl STILL WIN TRADES.

    I don't mean to be rude, but you sound a lot like this dumbass: na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2835919

    It wouldn't be a free-win, it'd just be hard for Darius to win the lane. But hey, god forbid that Darius has any counters. Right?
    He has counters. Plenty of them. Yorick, Jayce, Kennen, Swain, Vlad, prob even Nidalee. Right now, Darius has a great early game which transitions into a damage soak and clean up crew late game. That is Darius. When focused and CCed down he drops because all his tankyness comes from his items. You don't build damage on Darius because he doesn't need it and he would be too squishy if you did.

    With these changes, you don't need to burst down Darius anymore because he's a slow threat. Take out a more high priority target first, then Darius because he will die just as fast as before. He is gaining no more innate tankyness. He will probably even LOSE damage with this change because AS will become much more helpful to hit the 10 stacks and provides more defensive stats.

    His role will become one which is easily filled by plenty of other champs. Right now Darius is a strong pick with easy counters. Now he becomes and average/weak pick with even more counters than currently.

  11. #22451
    Over 9000! Duilliath's Avatar
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    As silly as it might seem to you, that post is actually fairly spot on and exactly what is wrong with Darius: he will beat most melee, he will lose to most ranged. That binary state has little to no counterplay, which is what is problematic about him. Not anything else.

  12. #22452
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axethor View Post
    He has counters. Plenty of them. Yorick, Jayce, Kennen, Swain, Vlad, prob even Nidalee.
    In other words, ranged champions(+Yorick, but LOLYORICK) counter him while he counters every single other champion that is commoly played top lane. Even those "counters" of his will fall over, die and let him snowball with a single small mistake - I remember playing Vlad vs Darius some time ago, one mistake was enough for most of my HP to disappear when he hit lvl 3, removing my ability to cs outside of trying to toss Q at max range. Is that really a fine state? Countering nine out of ten possible choices, disabling nearly all bruisers with a single pick, is not an overpowered state? :/
    Last edited by mmocab3a46fee3; 2013-01-15 at 04:16 PM.

  13. #22453
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    Gotta say I like the sound of the Darius rework, right now he's something of a one trick pony. When I see Darius' they fit into one of two types, Type 1: "Immortal, run around dunking people with a R that refreshes" and Type 2: "Dead".

    I think anything that can do to make his Ulti a bit less insane would be a very good thing, but they need to make sure they don't go to far in the other direction and leave him with nothing to work with.

    Also... They say they may remove the True Damage from his ulti.... Then I read on Lolwiki that they're changing Irelia's Hiten Style from True Damage to Magic Damage (PLEASE say this isn't so)... Why do Riot hate True Damage
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  14. #22454
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallahadd View Post

    Also... They say they may remove the True Damage from his ulti.... Then I read on Lolwiki that they're changing Irelia's Hiten Style from True Damage to Magic Damage (PLEASE say this isn't so)... Why do Riot hate True Damage
    Where'd you find that at? The Irelia part.

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  15. #22455
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axethor View Post
    He has counters. Plenty of them. Yorick, Jayce, Kennen, Swain, Vlad, prob even Nidalee. Right now, Darius has a great early game which transitions into a damage soak and clean up crew late game. That is Darius. When focused and CCed down he drops because all his tankyness comes from his items. You don't build damage on Darius because he doesn't need it and he would be too squishy if you did.

    With these changes, you don't need to burst down Darius anymore because he's a slow threat. Take out a more high priority target first, then Darius because he will die just as fast as before. He is gaining no more innate tankyness. He will probably even LOSE damage with this change because AS will become much more helpful to hit the 10 stacks and provides more defensive stats.

    His role will become one which is easily filled by plenty of other champs. Right now Darius is a strong pick with easy counters. Now he becomes and average/weak pick with even more counters than currently.
    I am the absolute worst top-laner you will ever find. And an even worse Darius player at that. And yet, I've beaten all of the above champions as Darius (I've actually only met Swain once in top, he was pretty bad so kinda iffy on that one). Nidalee is problaly the worst for Darius, but even then, one hook and she's in big, biig trouble.

    Damage soak? Yes, he builds tank, but even then his damage is through the roof. Get a Shurelya's and a Randuin's and you'll find it easier to stick to your target's in teamfights. Build him properly and his presence isn't as bad as you people think. His damage wont get affected because, well, built in %-ArP.

    I'm sorry you can't realize a champion is overpowered when allowed to built 100% tank and not lose damage doing so.

    As for the changes, anything that takes away his "100-0 in 2seconds"-burst is a good change.

    I'm skeptical about the changes too, but I still feel they're going the right way. I still think the whole concept of building up stacks to get high-damage is oh so wrong, but that's just me.

    And yes, I agree, having a champion become worthless because they can't balance him properly is sad, but is much rather preferred as to what we have now.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-15 at 05:27 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Duilliath View Post
    As silly as it might seem to you, that post is actually fairly spot on and exactly what is wrong with Darius: he will beat most melee, he will lose to most ranged. That binary state has little to no counterplay, which is what is problematic about him. Not anything else.
    It's not spot on, at all. Unless I truly suck at translating English, or we're reading two different threads.

    This guy thinks Darius' is all peachy and perfectly balanced because he's supposed to counter anyone who gets into 550yards of him. That is by itself idiotic, as pointed out by a lot of other posters in that thread. There's absolutely no room to counter anything he does which is the only overpowered thing about him. And his itemization capabilities.

    He's basically saying Diana pre-nerf was perfectly fine because Riot just releases champions, it's the players who(m?) decide what to do with them.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-15 at 05:28 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    In other words, ranged champions(+Yorick, but LOLYORICK) counter him while he counters every single other champion that is commoly played top lane. Even those "counters" of his will fall over, die and let him snowball with a single small mistake - I remember playing Vlad vs Darius some time ago, one mistake was enough for most of my HP to disappear when he hit lvl 3, removing my ability to cs outside of trying to toss Q at max range. Is that really a fine state? Countering nine out of ten possible choices, disabling nearly all bruisers with a single pick, is not an overpowered state? :/
    THANK you.

    Sorry, I suck at getting my point across. But this is pretty much it.

  16. #22456
    Over 9000! Duilliath's Avatar
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    Being balanced and being fine are two completely different things. That is the concept you seem to fail to understand.

    Darius is balanced just fine. His gameplay is not fine. Those are two completely (largely) unrelated things.

    Is Darius balanced? Yes, number-wise he is. Does he have counters? Yes, he does. Does he counter people? Yes, he does. Is his gameplay fine? No, it isn't.

  17. #22457
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duilliath View Post
    Being balanced and being fine are two completely different things. That is the concept you seem to fail to understand.

    Darius is balanced just fine. His gameplay is not fine. Those are two completely (largely) unrelated things.

    Is Darius balanced? Yes, number-wise he is. Does he have counters? Yes, he does. Does he counter people? Yes, he does. Is his gameplay fine? No, it isn't.
    How is that not the same thing? Elaborate, please.

  18. #22458
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lycoris View Post
    Am I the only one who remembers there being an entirely different thread for discussing the show itself? I mean it's in fun stuff, not cinema so I don't see what the real point is in expressing your dislike of the show there unless all you care about is how many people read your opinion in which case you're a jackass.
    No you're not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trollspwn View Post
    Hmm, I knew that jiji had been "underperforming" and that Hotshot was very vocal about giving people grief about their mistakes, but I didn't know that it was effecting jiji so much. Kinda sad to see him go to the sub spot, but he made the decision so I guess that's good. He wasn't benched. Though this seems very reminiscent of how voyboy performed on CLG. He did't fit their playstyle (I guess hotshots playstyle) and was removed from their team. He joins crs where they give him some room and the ability to pick champions he wants to and he gets a lot better once he gets used to the team. I can't help but feel that hotshot is the common factor in both of these problems. I could of course be wrong, but I rather suspect that it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by dengatron View Post
    It'd be pretty depressing to, like he says, have twice the confidence of doublelift, yet still be told by your teammates that it's your fault. They put a lot of it on hotshot too, but honestly not much of that is unfounded recently. The IEM Sao Paulo qualifiers today were a spectacle of hotshot staying away farming and being caught out 90% of the game. Jiji just didn't play how they THINK he should play, and now he's taking a break because of it. I do however feel like link can step up and fill his role, not only because link is a beast, but because he's one of the most active theory-crafters in league, and his next level advanced thinking.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TFS5P7sHno

    Gat. Dang.
    Can't say I know much about Link, but just based off of that clip he plays a mean lee sin. Though, it's easy to take a highlight reel and make someone look like a god. Good to know that he is a theorycrafter though.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeBacchus View Post
    I personally like it. I agree with the idea that Darius has basically no counterplay because if you get close to you will take shit tons of damage and probably die. I kind of like the whole 10 stack thing because it makes him a lot harder to play well. It could also be too much and he's just gonna get kited in circles and die, but I hope Riot won't rerelease him like that. The main thing I like about the rework is that imo it gives him more power in lane. It's fairly easy to apply 5 stacks right now, and if they are overextended you often beat on them more than 5 times before you get around to dunking, so making it stack up to 10 times will really punish people who don't have an escape that overextend in a darius lane.

    I don't know how he's going to do in team fight now, or if the changes will actually happen. Seems like it would be fairly easy to get 5 stacks on a person, as it is now, and you can push your luck and go for more before you hit the big red button. It's going to be very hard to get a lot of stacks on squishies though. If you just get to solo the AP carry and get 10 stacks by yourself, they are probably already below half health and your ult is gonna just destroy them, but in a team fight you're not going to be able to stack to 10 on someone unless they are somewhat tanky or they are not being focused. Someone brought it up a long time ago in this thread that Darius was built basically as a bruiser destroyer. Since the massive true damage nuke is more effective on things with decent healthbars that will live long enough for you to get 5 stacks on them. If they change him, I think it will solidify this role, and make him a really scary peeler in team fights. Unless you flash Apprehend you are rarely going to be able to get to the ad carry, so hitting the guy that's trying to hit your carry is usually the most effective thing to do. I mean if you can gib their carries ya, that's great, but most of the time you can't.

    When looked at that way, it seems almost as a response to the current meta of zomg bruiser every lane and win, but morello has been saying for along time that they wanted to do something with Darius because they didn't really like how he was now. Looking forward to whatever they do though.

  19. #22459
    Over 9000! Duilliath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackroo View Post
    How is that not the same thing? Elaborate, please.
    Let's just take ... Ahri as example. I think we can all agree she is reasonably balanced. Not the strongest pick out there, definitely not the weakest.

    Her mechanics are pretty straight forward:
    Q - line damage, magic/true; allows for counterplay by dodging it - preferably twice. Good Ahris can hit you twice exactly on the point where it returns.
    W - Three magic charges, hit closest enemy. Counterplay: Stay away from Ahri and she will hit minions instead.
    E - skill shot, Charm; works well with her R and her W. Counterplay: stay behind minions.
    R - Repositions Ahri, deals damage. Strong ability to hit E with and for engaging when you want. Makes you safe in mid lane. Plenty of counterplay as Ahri's mobility is tied to those three charges.

    Now nerf her damage by making all the Ratios not even half of what they are. Her gameplay didn't change, she just won't kill anything. She is not balanced.

    Now keep her damage the same, but instead of E being a skillshot, it's similar to Ryze's W and will always hit the Champion. Additionally, her passive now is Katarina's. Numerically, nothing much changed. But this would completely break Ahri in lane and teamfights.

  20. #22460
    The Lightbringer Toxigen's Avatar
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    Black, if you beat a Yorick top lane as Darius...he was bad, or you had an outstanding jungler.

    Any time a Darius pick gets through I bust out my good ol' Yorick and make his life a living hell.
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