The League of Legends thread

[Duilliath]

Karma has a snare, a much better shield and aoe damage on her shield. Her ultimate is off cooldown more often than Orianna's.

You can't compare kits like that. Lower ratios probably bring more utility. High ratios bring zero utility or other restrictions (see: LeBlanc only dealing damage to one target).

[Charge me Doctor]

Her damage output spikes like hell with Mantra - and it has a low CD for what it provides. She also has strong utility and extremely spammable AoE Q. She's more than fine as an AP mid.

If you can't poke enemy on a line (which is quite often on mid, because Karma has shitty damage outside of Mantra and on low AP, her attack animation and damage is pathetic, if you compare it to Oriana or Zyra) then you can't utilize her passive, and it will lead to long CD on mantra. The only place for strong utility - is bottom lane, because if your ADC can land 2 more attacks due to your root and MS steroid, you will dominate. I can't call her Q "spammable AoE" she has ~3 second CD on it IF! You fully stacked at CDR and maxed out it first, even then, you have a weak (260 + 60% AP iirc) skillshot, which hits first target and has really small AoE damage range, for example, Ziggs Q is spammable AoE skill with almost same (+65% of AP) ratio, but it can be thrown directly at enemy ADC or other squishes who stands behind creeps/tanks/bruisers, and if you will count bounces, it's range is huge.

The main problem with Karma AP is that she can't land her burst without being in danger (i.e. she needs to land a W+R+Q, and it is easy in 1v1, but is hard in teamfights, because someone will always block your Q from damaging a needed target and you wasted your mantra to do mediocre damage to a tank and you rooted enemy high-priority target in place). Look at, for example, level 16 Zyra, she can initiate with root, plant two seeds, Q them and ult, which will lead to ~400 damage in HUGE AoE radius and additional 500 damage in small AoE radius, and plants will deal ~100 damage each.

She is "fine" on mid, but other popular AP mids are much better than she is. But she is great if you play as aggressive support, and you can build her as semi-carry, because she can deal tons of damage in early game/lane phase and secure kills for ADC with root and MS boost.

[Deleted]

Orianna problaly has the strongest utility of any of the ap carries I can think of, even more than some supports, yet she's played as an AP Mid.

Karma is a strong poker in-lane, and I'm fairly sure she'll be played most as a carry, could be wrong though, time will tell. But she's by no means a 'weak' ap mid.

[Omnoms]

I must admit, karma has the most responsive auto attack animation ingame. I've yet to feel any flow like that. So last hitting would hardly be a problem.

[Deleted]

Karma is a pretty bad support. She needs farm to be significant and her laning phase in a duo-lane isn't even that good.

She works fine as an AP mid if you build her right, ie full cdr with damages.

[Deleted]

If you can't poke enemy on a line (which is quite often on mid, because Karma has shitty damage outside of Mantra and on low AP, her attack animation and damage is pathetic, if you compare it to Oriana or Zyra) then you can't utilize her passive, and it will lead to long CD on mantra. The only place for strong utility - is bottom lane, because if your ADC can land 2 more attacks due to your root and MS steroid, you will dominate. I can't call her Q "spammable AoE" she has ~3 second CD on it IF! You fully stacked at CDR and maxed out it first, even then, you have a weak (260 + 60% AP iirc) skillshot, which hits first target and has really small AoE damage range, for example, Ziggs Q is spammable AoE skill with almost same (+65% of AP) ratio, but it can be thrown directly at enemy ADC or other squishes who stands behind creeps/tanks/bruisers, and if you will count bounces, it's range is huge.

Karma pokes very easily in the lane - I do not know what Karma have you been playing, but her AA animation is very fast and responsive and she has as much early AD as any other AP mid, bar Orianna with her passive. Her Q also hits very easily - it's a fast projectile with a rather wide hitbox, plus you can just hit the minion behind which enemy champion is hiding. If you want to compare her poke to Ziggs then his Q is much easier to dodge and does not apply a slow - sure, you can throw it over the frontline, but hell if anyone is going to get hit at that range unless you threw it from the fog of war. This "weak" skillshot is in line with all other comparable abilities as far as damage goes, too.

The main problem with Karma AP is that she can't land her burst without being in danger (i.e. she needs to land a W+R+Q, and it is easy in 1v1, but is hard in teamfights, because someone will always block your Q from damaging a needed target and you wasted your mantra to do mediocre damage to a tank and you rooted enemy high-priority target in place). Look at, for example, level 16 Zyra, she can initiate with root, plant two seeds, Q them and ult, which will lead to ~400 damage in HUGE AoE radius and additional 500 damage in small AoE radius, and plants will deal ~100 damage each.

WRQ is easy to land in 1v1 and it's a 1v1 lane tool. You don't exactly need to try and play teamfights as if you were laning 1v1. For example, in the midst of a fight it actually is not that hard to throw RQ at the carry from the side while peeling your own with WE. Mantra E is also very strong for a teamfight, an AoE nuke, Shurelya and Locket in one - the shield is very sizeable too, 300+ on everyone and good 800+ on yourself when maxed. If the teamfight drags on, which could very well happen with how tanky everyone and everything is lately, you can easily throw a mantra twice - shielding everyone two times, or maybe using one for Q burst right at start and second to disengage/chase with E? Her kit is different from Zyra, do not compare just the numbers.

She is "fine" on mid, but other popular AP mids are much better than she is. But she is great if you play as aggressive support, and you can build her as semi-carry, because she can deal tons of damage in early game/lane phase and secure kills for ADC with root and MS boost.

She can support, sure - just like Lux, Morgana or Zyra. I still prefer her in the mid as she's up to par with other AP mids contrary to what you say. If you build her as semi-carry in bot you need to get yourself fed or you will leave your team with a wet noodle half-arsed second AP and lacking real support items.

[Deleted]

I've played vs a lot of ap Karmas lately and I'm not impressed by what I see.

the main problem she faces is that she can't really do any damage over minions. with a minion blocking her Q she's about as useless as Blitz in the same situation whereas Lux, Ahri, Xerath etc will just nuke the entire wave and be in zero danger. she can't really reliably wave clear either so she's always fighting to cs vs ap mids with pushing power.

in a team fight she becomes a lot more useful with her shield but compare that to Lux that has 2 great aoes, longer root and can throw out bigger and more shields? sure she's got the slow on her Q but that hardly seems to matter.

I'm not saying she's bad, I'm just saying there's champions out there that does what she does, but with more utility to their spells (read: Lux).

[Deleted]

Free 4win IP boost for all NA players,it's something,so yay.
But it's april fools,I don't know what to believe.

[Axethor]

I've played vs a lot of ap Karmas lately and I'm not impressed by what I see.

the main problem she faces is that she can't really do any damage over minions. with a minion blocking her Q she's about as useless as Blitz in the same situation whereas Lux, Ahri, Xerath etc will just nuke the entire wave and be in zero danger. she can't really reliably wave clear either so she's always fighting to cs vs ap mids with pushing power.

in a team fight she becomes a lot more useful with her shield but compare that to Lux that has 2 great aoes, longer root and can throw out bigger and more shields? sure she's got the slow on her Q but that hardly seems to matter.

I'm not saying she's bad, I'm just saying there's champions out there that does what she does, but with more utility to their spells (read: Lux).

There is also a Red post by either Morello or Xelnath saying they think Lux is too good right now with her high range, damage, and survivability.

Karma fits well into both support and AP mid. As support, you play aggressive and constantly poke your enemy, trying to make plays happen you can take advantage of. As AP mid, your also poking a lot, trying to make openings. Her Q is AoE and spammable, so her wave clear is fine. If your really in a bind you can use empowered Q to clear a wave, since the CD is so short.

[Deleted]

Oh god, nerfing Lux? Real? Morello... real? Did you get beat by a Lux just like you got beat by a Shaco? Cool stuff. Whatever.

I'm liking Tiger Brodyr a lot more than Pheonix Brodyr these days, the early damage is ridonkulous. Also loving the new dash on Bear Stance <3. Just loving me some Brodyr these days.

[Deleted]

I dunno about Lux being particularly tough to bring down. Sure, Prismatic Barrier is nice utility, but you sure as hell aren't staying alive long if you misplace yourself.

[Deleted]

I dunno about Lux being particularly tough to bring down. Sure, Prismatic Barrier is nice utility, but you sure as hell aren't staying alive long if you misplace yourself.

That and the fact that you only have skillshots, which makes up for everything really

[Thallidomaniac]

Also, when people see the ZOMGWTF burst damage Lux can put out, it's either because she's fed, and/or the enemy team didn't buy MR, i.e. the jungler/support/anyone is too stupid to buy Aegis/Bulwark while Lux is shoop da whooping people.

[Deleted]

She just needs her ult cd increased.

[Karrotlord]

I still can't believe people are actually crying about lil' ol' Lux. What on earth brought this about? Are they just picking champs at random now?

[Deleted]

She just needs her ult cd increased.

No. 10char

[Deleted]

No. 10char

I'm glad you aren't in the balance team then.

[Deleted]

I think the problem with Lux is that she can burst someone down in a few seconds just like LB while doing AoE damage, while LB can't do decent aoe damage and getting out with no damage while doing AoE.

Lux is pretty strong as she is, probably needs a nerf here and there, certainly not on her W, but I guess nerfing her AP ratios on her ulti and her E is what Riot is going to do. But I have no idea what Riot is doing these days so lol.

[Kuthe]

urf skin. urf skin. urf skin.

It's the only god damn time of the year I'm happy to buy a skin and it looks like Riot are letting me down.
WHY RIOT WHY!

[Deleted]

I'm glad you aren't in the balance team then.

Right back at you, lol.

---------- Post added 2013-04-02 at 02:40 AM ----------

I think the problem with Lux is that she can burst someone down in a few seconds just like LB while doing AoE damage, while LB can't do decent aoe damage and getting out with no damage while doing AoE.

Lux is pretty strong as she is, probably needs a nerf here and there, certainly not on her W, but I guess nerfing her AP ratios on her ulti and her E is what Riot is going to do. But I have no idea what Riot is doing these days so lol.

Difference is though that it requires you to hit with skillshots as Lux, and it requires you to be ahead as Lux in order to 100>0 someone buying MR/health