1. #32781
    Legendary! Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelgius View Post
    I can think of a lot of moments where I thought "Man, I wish I had Ignite right now, I could finish off this kill"
    What about the times where an ability (or a combination of ablities) would do it, but not Ignite as they've got more HP than Ignite burns, and you've already spent your mana?

    I'm only asking as it seems like the negative stigma around Clarity clouds your experience, as it may feel good to you to kill a champion with Ignite/Exhaust/Ghost/Barrier, but less so with Clarity.
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  2. #32782
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    What about the times where an ability (or a combination of ablities) would do it, but not Ignite as they've got more HP than Ignite burns, and you've already spent your mana?

    I'm only asking as it seems like the negative stigma around Clarity clouds your experience, as it may feel good to you to kill a champion with Ignite/Exhaust/Ghost/Barrier, but less so with Clarity.
    By the time abilities matter more than ignite, your mana problems are gone.

  3. #32783
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    If you run Clarity, I'll kill you in lane before you get a chance to even run oom You automatically lose trades when you opt out of Exhaust / Ignite unless you heavily counter the other lane, only inexperienced and not as skilled players have trouble managing mana, I get that it lets you spam abilities to an extent but if the other lane actually engages on you and you're forced to fight them, you're at a massive disadvantage. I guess if your goal is to just farm it out and stay in lane longer Clarity is an option but why not just play Soraka? Every ADC runs Lifesteal Quints these days so having the extra poke isn't that big of a deal anyways. Do you still run Clarity vs a Leona? In a lane like that, the extra mana won't save you the way Exhaust would considering she can pretty much do half your hp + more alone.
    Last edited by Zeoni; 2013-07-31 at 09:58 PM.

  4. #32784
    The Lightbringer Axethor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    What about the times where an ability (or a combination of ablities) would do it, but not Ignite as they've got more HP than Ignite burns, and you've already spent your mana?

    I'm only asking as it seems like the negative stigma around Clarity clouds your experience, as it may feel good to you to kill a champion with Ignite/Exhaust/Ghost/Barrier, but less so with Clarity.
    If you can't kill someone on one combo and need clarity for mana, they are fed/farmed and you are really behind and probably dead. I never run out of mana unless it's a teamfight or I'm being incredibly abusive to an enemy in lane, in which case I buy Athene's and/or mana pots and it's okay. Even then, chances are they were forced to back so I slam my minions wave into their turret and back as well. Not point staying in lane when they will come back with more items.

    Doing anything without the mana/CDs to escape or fight back is asking to die, and relying on clarity to shore up that weakness is asking to lose trades and teamfights when you don't need the mana.

    Also, when your mid has Blue, your top laner is Renekton, and your jungler is Zac, how useful is that team wide mana really gonna be? You and the ADC? The guy who uses spells the least and normally AAs most fights?

  5. #32785
    Deleted
    Just found out zhonyas might need a nerf or something.. the 90 sec cd on a karth is just insane since it will be up for all teamfight no matter how fast you try to get into a new one and karth aoe + zhonya just wins almost all fights, since you will always play with retards who stands in it until they die

    on another note.. new yi is tons of fun to play now compared to before

    - - - Updated - - -

    taking clarity has no purpose, since if you run out of mana too fast or don't have any when you need it, it's because you're doing something wrong, and clarity can save you the problems of having to be a better player for a little while, but also at the cost of other much better summoner spells

    if anyone goes around thinking "i better pick clarity so i have mana in emergency situations" then you are clearly doing something wrong and need to change your build / playstyle accordingly

  6. #32786
    Legendary! Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agnow View Post
    if anyone goes around thinking "i better pick clarity so i have mana in emergency situations" then you are clearly doing something wrong and need to change your build / playstyle accordingly
    "I better take Ignite so I can kill someone in an emergency situation"
    "I better take Flash so I can escape or catch someone in an emergency situation"
    "I better take Exhaust so I can escape or catch someone in an emergency situation"
    "I better take Barrier so I can survive in an emergency situation"

    I don't see the difference.
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  7. #32787
    New yi looks really cool ingame o-o

  8. #32788
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    "I better take Ignite so I can kill someone in an emergency situation"
    "I better take Flash so I can escape or catch someone in an emergency situation"
    "I better take Exhaust so I can escape or catch someone in an emergency situation"
    "I better take Barrier so I can survive in an emergency situation"

    I don't see the difference.
    the difference is mana is something you can manage, while the others have nothing to do with how much health / mana or what items you have

    items / mana management can do so you would never need to have / use clarity

  9. #32789
    Legendary! Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axethor View Post
    If you can't kill someone on one combo and need clarity for mana, they are fed/farmed and you are really behind and probably dead.
    You can't possibly assume that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Axethor View Post
    I never run out of mana unless it's a teamfight or I'm being incredibly abusive to an enemy in lane, in which case I buy Athene's and/or mana pots and it's okay.
    Athene's is quite expensive for a support and mana pots don't scale.

    Quote Originally Posted by Axethor View Post
    Also, when your mid has Blue, your top laner is Renekton, and your jungler is Zac, how useful is that team wide mana really gonna be? You and the ADC?
    If that's all it hits then that's fine, as its secondarily a personal cooldown. It's the same if you're against a team with a lot of mobility, then Exhaust won't be much use. Riven top, Leblanc mid, Vi jungle, Ez and Leona bot lane, for a hastily made example.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by agnow View Post
    the difference is mana is something you can manage, while the others have nothing to do with how much health / mana or what items you have
    I disagree: Ignite is more effective if your target has less max HP, Flash is more effective if you have a lower MS, Exhaust is more effective if they have more MS, Barrier is more effective if you have a lot of resistance, Clarity is more effective if you have more mana.

    All summoner's spells have an effect on what items you have. Health is something you can also manage but you still see Barrier use. Good positioning is something you can manage but you see everyone take Flash.
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  10. #32790
    The Lightbringer Axethor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    "I better take Ignite so I can kill someone in an emergency situation"
    "I better take Flash so I can escape or catch someone in an emergency situation"
    "I better take Exhaust so I can escape or catch someone in an emergency situation"
    "I better take Barrier so I can survive in an emergency situation"

    I don't see the difference.
    With the exception of barrier, that's not why you take any other the spells, and even then it's a loose definition.
    Ignite is to secure kills and reduce the healing that player recieves (LS, direct heals, regen, anything). It's also extra damage you normally wouldn't have.
    Flash, while used for escapes, is better used to make big and exciting plays you normally couldn't pull off. Udyr Flashing in to stun a high priority target, Skarner Flash + ult, Kennen or Karthus Flash + Zhonyas with their AoEs up, etc.
    Exhaust is also used to secure kills, but it has the dual benefit of murdering the damage of the exhausted person. While it's more painful for an ADC to be exhausted, 30% less damage is nothing to sneeze at when used on a fed APC or burst mage.
    Barrier is used to survive emergency situations. However, it has the added benefit of the ability to outplay your opponent by playing a shield bait or giving you the survivability to get in one more hit and win the skirmish.

    Clarity is just "I need more mana now." It doesn't solve the issue of your spells being on CD anyway so you can't use the extra mana. It just gives you more. Meanwhile the enemy took barrier, negates one spell from your extra mana and kills you because he had the management to do so.

  11. #32791
    Legendary! Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axethor View Post
    Ignite is to secure kills and reduce the healing that player recieves (LS, direct heals, regen, anything). It's also extra damage you normally wouldn't have.
    So, you agree with me...
    Quote Originally Posted by Axethor View Post
    Flash, while used for escapes, is better used to make big and exciting plays you normally couldn't pull off. Udyr Flashing in to stun a high priority target, Skarner Flash + ult, Kennen or Karthus Flash + Zhonyas with their AoEs up, etc.
    Flashing in is to catch. So you agree with me here too...
    Quote Originally Posted by Axethor View Post
    Exhaust is also used to secure kills, but it has the dual benefit of murdering the damage of the exhausted person. While it's more painful for an ADC to be exhausted, 30% less damage is nothing to sneeze at when used on a fed APC or burst mage.
    Reducing damage allows escape, so you also agree with me here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Axethor View Post
    Barrier is used to survive emergency situations. However, it has the added benefit of the ability to outplay your opponent by playing a shield bait or giving you the survivability to get in one more hit and win the skirmish.
    And you agree with me here too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Axethor View Post
    Clarity is just "I need more mana now." It doesn't solve the issue of your spells being on CD anyway so you can't use the extra mana.
    You don't Clarity with no spells up the same way you don't Heal at full health.
    Quote Originally Posted by Axethor View Post
    Meanwhile the enemy took barrier, negates one spell from your extra mana and kills you because he had the management to do so.
    Hypothetical situation you can't possibly assume occurs every time.

    It's like you're scared to admit it.
    Last edited by Firebert; 2013-07-31 at 10:37 PM.
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  12. #32792
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    Why is the use of clarity being discussed? I mean there's a reason no successful player ever used it, no? If one likes it one could/should (probably not) use it, but that's about it.

    Anyways, bit sad about Lucians delay. Really pumped for his release, love his kit and the concept of his ultimate. I wonder what they plan to change while he's still on the PTR.

  13. #32793
    The Lightbringer Axethor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    You can't possibly assume that.
    Experience says I can. If I all in someone and they live, and I have no mana, I'm now a sitting duck and guarenteed to die unless the enemy is stupid and also has no mana.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Athene's is quite expensive for a support and mana pots don't scale.
    Well you can at least buy chalice and upgrade it into crucible. An awesome support item with the same passive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    If that's all it hits then that's fine, as its secondarily a personal cooldown. It's the same if you're against a team with a lot of mobility, then Exhaust won't be much use. Riven top, Leblanc mid, Vi jungle, Ez and Leona bot lane, for a hastily made example.
    Only Exhaust still is useful because it kills the damage of whoever you exhausted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    I disagree: Ignite is more effective if your target has less max HP, Flash is more effective if you have a lower MS, Exhaust is more effective if they have more MS, Barrier is more effective if you have a lot of resistance, Clarity is more effective if you have more mana.

    All summoner's spells have an effect on what items you have. Health is something you can also manage but you still see Barrier use. Good positioning is something you can manage but you see everyone take Flash.
    Ignite is good no matter what because of the healing reduction. Watch pro streams. You will see them ignite at the start of fights to reduce any possible healing the champion might receive.
    Flash is universally good.
    Exhaust is also universally good.
    Barrier works better with resists, but it's still good for soaking up a little extra damage that can help you win a fight.
    Last edited by Axethor; 2013-07-31 at 10:40 PM.

  14. #32794
    The game also lasts past laning phase in which clarity is nearly pointless x-x

  15. #32795
    The Lightbringer Axethor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silfwerfisq View Post
    Why is the use of clarity being discussed? I mean there's a reason no successful player ever used it, no? If one likes it one could/should (probably not) use it, but that's about it.

    Anyways, bit sad about Lucians delay. Really pumped for his release, love his kit and the concept of his ultimate. I wonder what they plan to change while he's still on the PTR.
    Just a numbers pass and bug fixes most likely. AP Lucian was a hot point of contention because of the ridiculous damage his ult does. Also, there really isn't anything like his ult currently ingame, so there is potential for a lot of odd interactions with stuff.

  16. #32796
    Quote Originally Posted by Mionelol View Post
    i really like clarity combined with zephyr and ninja tabi as first items, you move fast between lanes and have no mana issues to defend all towers
    best udyr build

  17. #32797
    Over 9000! Duilliath's Avatar
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    Out of curiosity.. why do people continue to argue with Firebert? This is not the first time and it's probably also not the last time he'll show us that he'll happily ignore advice for what works for him.

  18. #32798
    Legendary! Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duilliath View Post
    Out of curiosity.. why do people continue to argue with Firebert? This is not the first time and it's probably also not the last time he'll show us that he'll happily ignore advice for what works for him.
    It's more interesting that others fail to listen to me, because it seems almost fashionable/cool to do so.
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  19. #32799
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mionelol View Post
    i really like clarity combined with zephyr and ninja tabi as first items, you move fast between lanes and have no mana issues to defend all towers
    Gotta go fast.
    Quote Originally Posted by Duilliath View Post
    Out of curiosity.. why do people continue to argue with Firebert? This is not the first time and it's probably also not the last time he'll show us that he'll happily ignore advice for what works for him.
    I don't get why people in general come to a discussion board and then proceed to blatantly ignore solid evidence as to why certain things are better. It's like going to the Paladin forum and saying you use Light's Hammer because "Sometimes, in very rare situations, I'll need this!"

  20. #32800
    It's just fun to see someone go really far out with their crazy, whacky theories.

    And how terrible people are with their mana management.

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