1. #34661

  2. #34662
    Over 9000! Duilliath's Avatar
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    Several reasons:

    Kayle scales extremely well with gold. It's a bit of a waste to put her in a role where she won't get any money.
    Secondly, her spells are extremely expensive if you want to use them a lot. If, as a jungler, I see a Kayle support, I'll just pop by a few times and she'll run out of mana to hit Q. Her ultimate is absolutely amazing, but she'll still have that one and the actual damage if you put her in a lane.

    Additionally, a slow is only soft CC. It's not a hard CC like a Sona ult or Lulu polymorph.

    When to max E: as support, never until you maxed out the other skills.

    --

    One point of importance that you missed in your graph: cooldowns. Sona's heal has a 7 second cooldown and heals 2 people (including herself). Kayle's heal has a 15 second cooldown.

    That makes Sona's heal 80 per 7 seconds. Kayle's 60 per 15 seconds. This is at rank 1.

  3. #34663
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Just some feedback to you all so you can all laugh in my face:

    I spam too much as Sona necessitating Clarity. So at 25-33 I'm just going to stop playing her. Her single-target heal is the most inefficient in the game at rank 1 and only mediocre at rank 5. So I went and did a chart of all the healing "supports" I could think of (7?) and did rank against HP-per-mana-cost of their non-ult abilities with 0AP, and this is what I got:



    I'm 6-5 for Kayle Support at the moment, and am at the precipice for not taking Clarity any more because Philo is almost enough. Two questions though:

    *Why don't people play Kayle Support, and
    *When to take E?
    But I mean, it's not league of healing. Damage mitigation is usually more important than direct healing and cc is probably more important still. Sona's ult can not only make or break a teamfight, it can make or break the entire game. Winning your lane from sustain is nice and all, but at the end of the day winning a team fight is what's going to let you ultimately take big objectives.... so the most popular supports may not be those that give the easiest laning phase, but can make a massive difference to the game. If you're going to take Kayle why not take her mid, or even top, you'll get more gold, get more items, still have your utility abilities but actually pump out some decent damage as well... there are just so many better options for the support role.

  4. #34664
    Over 9000! Duilliath's Avatar
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    Sidenote, I don't see any reason to laugh about the question. It's a genuine, well formulated, question with some clear thought behind it.

  5. #34665
    Quote Originally Posted by Duilliath View Post
    Sidenote, I don't see any reason to laugh about the question. It's a genuine, well formulated, question with some clear thought behind it.
    definitely. But who laughed?
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  6. #34666
    Over 9000! Duilliath's Avatar
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    No one did, it's just what Firebert apparently anticipated, according to his post. Was going to edit it in, but Shamanic had already posted in the meanwhile.

  7. #34667
    Hey guys,

    been playing a bit more ranked lately and have been duo queue'ing with a friend and was wondering if it's typical to get the last 2 picks in every game when duo'ing? We're just playing for fun, but it can get a bit frustrating when you're relegated to the last 2 picks in every game (think we're on game 8 or 9 in a row now). Just some silver scrubs tryin' to have a good time =p

    I know I've read that duo'ing can affect the matches you get placed in, but does it significantly decrease your chances of having an early/1st pick?
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  8. #34668
    Quote Originally Posted by Dubalicious View Post
    Hey guys,

    been playing a bit more ranked lately and have been duo queue'ing with a friend and was wondering if it's typical to get the last 2 picks in every game when duo'ing? We're just playing for fun, but it can get a bit frustrating when you're relegated to the last 2 picks in every game (think we're on game 8 or 9 in a row now). Just some silver scrubs tryin' to have a good time =p

    I know I've read that duo'ing can affect the matches you get placed in, but does it significantly decrease your chances of having an early/1st pick?
    Yes it's pretty normal. Think there's some sort of system that puts premades as last picks, not entirely sure though. Im usually 1st or 2nd pick when soloqueing, and when duoque im pretty much always 4th or 5th with my friend.

  9. #34669
    When I duo with one of my lower ranked friends (I'm Plat V, he's Gold III) I'm usually first and he's last.

    When I duo with another friend of mine, who's Plat V too, I usually get 4th pick and he get's 5th pick.
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  10. #34670
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Dubalicious View Post
    Hey guys,

    been playing a bit more ranked lately and have been duo queue'ing with a friend and was wondering if it's typical to get the last 2 picks in every game when duo'ing? We're just playing for fun, but it can get a bit frustrating when you're relegated to the last 2 picks in every game (think we're on game 8 or 9 in a row now). Just some silver scrubs tryin' to have a good time =p

    I know I've read that duo'ing can affect the matches you get placed in, but does it significantly decrease your chances of having an early/1st pick?
    Every single duo game I've played in ranked I've been 1st and my duo queue partner has been last.

  11. #34671
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ergar View Post
    Yes it's pretty normal. Think there's some sort of system that puts premades as last picks, not entirely sure though. Im usually 1st or 2nd pick when soloqueing, and when duoque im pretty much always 4th or 5th with my friend.
    I think it only happens when you and your friend are relatively close in MMR, because you get matched vs slightly better opponents (because I think you receive a small MMR-bonus for duoq-games, so you play vs. ppl slightly above your average MMR, that's why you're at the bottom of the pick order). If you are above your friends ranking (let's say your friend is bronze 1 or silver 5 and you're silver 1), you will be first pick and they will be last pick.

    That's at least how it was for me every time. That's because pickorder seems to be based on MMR, so you (as silver 1 in this example) will have the highest MMR, the rest of the group will probably be around silver 2 or 3, and your friend (silver 5 in this example) would have the lowest MMR.

  12. #34672
    I don't get this preoccupation with Sona these days... Whenever I support, people are like "just play sona... she's strong and easy to play". No, she's not easy to play and she's only strong if crescendo hits people. She's not massively stronger than other supports imo. She can be if played well, but I'd prefer a Lulu or Janna any day.

  13. #34673
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Drikkink View Post
    I don't get this preoccupation with Sona these days... Whenever I support, people are like "just play sona... she's strong and easy to play". No, she's not easy to play and she's only strong if crescendo hits people. She's not massively stronger than other supports imo. She can be if played well, but I'd prefer a Lulu or Janna any day.
    She's pretty strong. I played most of my bronze 2 -> gold v games as Sona. She's also in my opinion, one of the easiest champs, if not the easiest, in league - but of course everyone has a different concept of what's easy to play. Her ult can make or break a team fight, has a decent range and spread and with max CDR a pretty decent cooldown. Her poke does significant damage, once you learn to use the 4 stack procs properly then she can be a powerhouse poker in lane. Her heal is decent, not by any stretch amazing, but it also gives bonus armor/mr, her q whilst doing decent damage also lowers the damage of the enemy, and her E gives you some minor engage/disengage, or on a stacked proc, a slow. She has a little bit of everything. She has minimal skill shots, a very easy to use kit, good low cooldown spells and a decent mana regen once you pick up your chalice.

    She's still the highest pick support in the pro leagues, along with Thresh.

    Janna is one of the highest pick solo q supports though at challenger i think (or she was last time I checked), and I also play Janna, Lulu and Nami and find they all have some good strengths - but if I want the best chance of winning I personally will take Sona or Thresh.

  14. #34674
    Over 9000! Duilliath's Avatar
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    Simple question about Jax: Hybrid Pen Marks or AD?

  15. #34675
    Quote Originally Posted by Duilliath View Post
    Simple question about Jax: Hybrid Pen Marks or AD?
    I was wondering the exact same thing. AD marks will clearly give him a bigger edge early game, and the hybrid pen marks will be very useful come late game.

    The big question is: Will he be able to be strong enough when late game hits without the early dominance if you get the hybrid pen marks?

  16. #34676
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    pure AD reds and quints

  17. #34677
    Over 9000! Duilliath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Still Rampant Rabbit View Post
    I was wondering the exact same thing. AD marks will clearly give him a bigger edge early game, and the hybrid pen marks will be very useful come late game.

    The big question is: Will he be able to be strong enough when late game hits without the early dominance if you get the hybrid pen marks?
    Thing is... Jax will get massive anyway. Just needs enough time. He needs a bit of time to ramp up regardless (until he gets his ult, he's fairly weak at trading).

  18. #34678
    Deleted
    I think it's better flat AD damage for a better early game.

  19. #34679
    Just run gold runes and get Triforce faster.

  20. #34680
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Drikkink View Post
    Just run gold runes and get Triforce faster.
    You mean quints or yellow? I'm not sure what you mean with gold but anyway, I'm positive that gp5 quints/yellows aren't really much of anything on a champion that is in lane.

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