1. #36961
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichifails View Post
    However there are third party bots out there that perform at gold/plat level(aka they are used to boost accounts). They WILL surprise the living hell out of you.
    well, surprises like "wow, this fucker have got all creep waves" (which is common for 3rd party bots, they has crazy cs) and "what? this fucker got thornmail first and i can't do jack shit against him but overall he still gets stomped by our team but i can't snowball out of him" (which is very common for unexperienced players, because they build some mid level items to boost their early game. Yeah, that makes no sense) are quite different
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  2. #36962
    Legendary! Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roudene View Post
    What? As a level 30 player with masteries and runes you can go all troll picks and still win.
    It's true that you can all troll and win. But you reduce your win rate as compared to something resembling meta.
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  3. #36963
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mionelol View Post
    Well, programming a bot to dodge scripted stuff is not equal to playing against other players, they are unpredictable and you have that pesky thing as latency and you bot won't respond correctly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  4. #36964
    Quote Originally Posted by Mionelol View Post
    *Completely unrelated video*
    ... So you're arguing that because we can create bots that perform well in one game - a completely different kind of game - we can create bots that are just as good in LoL?

    That must mean we can also create AI intelligent enough to take over the planet. /facepalm
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA YOU'RE FUCKED. (Yes, it's my forums, I'm allowed to do that)

  5. #36965
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mionelol View Post
    [video=youtube;w_KUhCZ78kg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_KUhCZ78kg[video]
    I don't get your point.
    I said realistically flawed. Making a flawless bot is easy as fuck, making one that seems human is far harder.
    also lol 2d


    Quote Originally Posted by Ichifails View Post
    However there are third party bots out there that perform at gold/plat level(aka they are used to boost accounts). They WILL surprise the living hell out of you.
    I'm sure they will, until I get experienced facing them (which I likely never will, if my current experience is any indicator.) Bots have far more easily recognizable patterns than humans.
    Last edited by mmoc24ed1da916; 2013-12-07 at 04:22 PM.

  6. #36966
    The problem is that if their AI is too perfect, they'll just end up on the other side of the spectrum where they do absolutely perfect things humans won't be able to do 99% of the time.

    Coding a bot to be perfect or even human would take too long, there are simply way too many variables involved. And why even do it when you can play against players anyway?

  7. #36967
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mionelol View Post
    LoL isn't 2d?
    You could argue the movement is only on a 2-dimensional plane but the game is most definitely 3-dimensional. Even if it wasn't, LoL has far more depth in gameplay than danmakus.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mionelol View Post
    There are plenty of games with good AIs, I'm not sure why you think it would be so hard to make a good AI for LoL.
    Because any AI you make will invariably be either too good to be useful or too clumsy to seem human.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mionelol View Post
    The point is that that AI is better than any human will ever play the game without being flawless at all (it is 100% beatable)
    I could link a video of an AI finishing Super Mario Brothers, it's pretty much frame-perfect all the way through. That doesn't mean such AI behavior could be transferred to LoL.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mionelol View Post
    Most players are 100% predictable. I can't say I have been surprised by a 'human' behavior lately, at all.
    Hitting literamahally every skillshot? Never juked ever? No? Not 100% predictable. Bots function far too optimally to do anything suboptimal unless specifically programmed to do so and that is why they're predictable. Human players make random 'mistakes' constantly.

    I'd be happy to see evidence otherwise but I've never seen a bot with human-like flaws in any of the games I've played.
    Last edited by mmoc24ed1da916; 2013-12-07 at 04:47 PM.

  8. #36968
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zefie View Post
    I could link a video of an AI finishing Super Mario Brothers, it's pretty much frame-perfect all the way through. That doesn't mean such AI behavior could be transferred to LoL.
    I'm pretty sure TAS =/= AI.
    It's more like, they can imput every command per frame.

  9. #36969
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelly View Post
    I'm pretty sure TAS =/= AI.
    It's more like, they can imput every command per frame.
    Get edited on.

  10. #36970
    I usually play the bots to get my daily win (simply because I want to guarantee it if I'm close to champ I can buy with IP afterwards). Don't know if some of you haven't played the bots in a while but you'll be surprised at some of the behavior they'll pull on you sometimes.

    Yeah, they're typically predictable, have spot on aim, reaction light-speed, etc. But, every once ina while... the shit I've seen, haha.

  11. #36971
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilz View Post
    The thing about LoL bots is that they turn into headless chickens if you take a single inhib. For some reason they just don't know how to handle super minions and will let them build up and start hitting their base. Also bots are cheaters and will sometimes detect when you're doing one of their buffs so keeping your eyes on the minimap is a must. If you're a squishy target don't forget to sacrifice one of your teammates to the Annie Bot before engaging.

    It's always interesting to see the people you get in bot matches. I've seen a guy brag about his CS when he was barely reaching the 5 cs a minute mark rather than the standard 10 per minute goal. People who seemed to believe the bots were actual people and flamed them in all chat. Then you have the guys who are intimidated by the intermediate bots. Sure when I started I lost to intermediate bots sometimes too because I was new to that type of game and had no idea what to do, but these guys are like level 16+ and still afraid of those bots.
    Bots technically don't cheat. They just have no fog of war, which I Guess is cheating but whatevs.

    Also what is with this new behavior in bot games to call out roles? I mean if you want to go mid with Syndra to get a feel of her abilities and practice against cassio bot (who is actually good practice imo because she and lux bot are assholes and typically land their skillshots. ) then I can understand you asking for mid. But I mean if you're a decent enough player you can take any champion, to any lane and do fine (i've done it dozens of times.) It just so weird how serious some people take bot games. ._.

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  13. #36973
    So, apparently the Season 3 Championship Ward Skin is on the PBE now... but does anybody know how to get it once it goes live? Was it something you got a code for along with your Worlds ticket?
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  14. #36974
    The Lightbringer Axethor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drathos View Post
    So, apparently the Season 3 Championship Ward Skin is on the PBE now... but does anybody know how to get it once it goes live? Was it something you got a code for along with your Worlds ticket?
    Nope, no clue how to get it. Probably store bought though.

  15. #36975
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riboe View Post
    ... So you're arguing that because we can create bots that perform well in one game - a completely different kind of game - we can create bots that are just as good in LoL?

    That must mean we can also create AI intelligent enough to take over the planet. /facepalm
    Here comes the ridiculous extrapolations.

    Bots can be tuned up in LoL (or another difficulty created, see below).

    Quote Originally Posted by Zefie View Post
    I don't get your point.
    I said realistically flawed. Making a flawless bot is easy as fuck, making one that seems human is far harder.
    also lol 2d
    There's no point making a bot seem human. You just need to match its skill with one of a human (tit-for-tat), or indicate that it's DeepBlue difficulty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zefie View Post
    Bots have far more easily recognizable patterns than humans.
    I'd say that at certain levels they're about the same. See Uncanny Valley.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelwryn View Post
    Bots technically don't cheat. They just have no fog of war, which I Guess is cheating but whatevs.
    Bots do cheat, they have a vastly improved gold generation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelwryn View Post
    Also what is with this new behavior in bot games to call out roles?
    "new"

    People call roles/lanes all the time in my bot games, I'm just happy to fill the bot meta with whatever I feel like playing at the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelwryn View Post
    It just so weird how serious some people take bot games. ._.
    Well, you're there to win, and some people take their Ranked mentality with them. People will be people.
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  16. #36976
    Over 9000! Duilliath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Here comes the ridiculous extrapolations.
    In this whole thing, you're forgetting one minor detal: why Riot actually made these bot games. They are for beginners to practise and experiment with.

    As such, they're tuned to be extremely forgiving and easy to deal with.

    Could they be programmed better and be more like humans? Sure. However, that would completely defeat the whole point of the Coop vs AI actually being there.

    They are programmed to be stupidly easy. Therefore they are stupidly easy. It really is that simple.

  17. #36977
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duilliath View Post
    In this whole thing, you're forgetting one minor detal: why Riot actually made these bot games. They are for beginners to practise and experiment with.

    As such, they're tuned to be extremely forgiving and easy to deal with.

    Could they be programmed better and be more like humans? Sure. However, that would completely defeat the whole point of the Coop vs AI actually being there.

    They are programmed to be stupidly easy. Therefore they are stupidly easy. It really is that simple.
    Then again, other games (DOTA 2 and SC2) have bots with much higher difficulty levels than League does, which means that Riot doesn't want to work on that part of the game further.
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  18. #36978
    Legendary! Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duilliath View Post
    In this whole thing, you're forgetting one minor detal: why Riot actually made these bot games. They are for beginners to practise and experiment with.
    That doesn't mean they can't be expanded on.
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  19. #36979
    Over 9000! Duilliath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    That doesn't mean they can't be expanded on.
    No, you're absolutely right there. Over time, Riot has worked on the bot algorithms and added new bots. But for their stated purpose, giving beginners a safe environment to get used to the basics of MOBAs, this is as advanced as they will get. Any more complex and it would defeat the whole point of them.

  20. #36980
    The Lightbringer Axethor's Avatar
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    I think the bots could use a difficulty boost, even with their intended purpose currently being fulfilled. It's impossible to lose to beginner bots. Your whole team has to not know how to point and click to lose a beginner bot game. Intermediate is better since you can lose now, but they are still really predictable and easy to beat.

    It's good for new players, not so much for anyone else. If I have to learn a new champion, I get the same experience in a custom game by myself vs any number of bots that I would in a bot game, without the annoying people. Once I know how the spells work, a "better" bot difficulty would help to get used to how the champ works on a team, but there is no option other than normals since currently, playing against bots won't help you anymore.

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