1. #37961
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    Haven't seen any KZ who would manage to 2 shot a carry tho. At least me, when i play carry
    Well, when you're at the point in the game where you've finished 4+ major items, almost anyone will 2 shot a carry. AP carries will look at you and you'll die. Bruisers will slap you with their combo and you'll die. Even fulltank malphite should be able to ult+E+Q to nearly instantly kill you. So stacking life leech is kinda weird. Either you're not under attack and you don't need it, or you take some damage but survive, in which case you don't need a lot to heal back up, or you're under focused attack and you'll die anyway.

    Maybe it's useful for adc duels.
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  2. #37962
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cattlehunter View Post
    Well, when you're at the point in the game where you've finished 4+ major items, almost anyone will 2 shot a carry. AP carries will look at you and you'll die. Bruisers will slap you with their combo and you'll die. Even fulltank malphite should be able to ult+E+Q to nearly instantly kill you. So stacking life leech is kinda weird. Either you're not under attack and you don't need it, or you take some damage but survive, in which case you don't need a lot to heal back up, or you're under focused attack and you'll die anyway.

    Maybe it's useful for adc duels.
    My 4 BTs helped me to tank full build Rene and Voli and bring them down low enough to scare by aiming at enemy Jinx, durrr.

    You exaggerate damage people are capable to do, there is no way full tank Malphite will take down a carry. Proably will bring him to 2/3 of his health, but won't kill. He has to have at least 300 AP to do that. Stacking life leech is good on Twitch when you are constantly contested by melee from my experience, you shoot through them and take health back without dropping enemy significant targets off your aim.

    And by the way, having 4+ big items earlier than everyone else is how adc plays. You get your big items before enemy gets them and you win games. If your enemy somehow manages to survive and farm long enough (and you still haven't pushed to win) to get his 4+ big items, well, there is fuck up somewhere on a side of your team.

    Most AP carries can't hit you if you have a meat shield to cover you. And most AP carries will die from 3 attacks against Tristana or Twitch (OPed range).

    I actually used to stack BTs on Draven, and it's impossible to die unless chain CCed. You just land 1 axe on enemy and his health drops down by half. Awesome. Too bad that it's hard to pull off because you need to be far ahead of enemy in gold (around 3 thousands, 3 towers, 2 dragons and couple of kills will give you 1st BT, second one will be much sooner).

    I think because of all this hype of "ermahgerd ADC is useless he gets killed in 1 shot by *enter character name*" i wil main adc for rankeds now. It's kinda hard to get into team where top/mid spots are free, but no one wants to play adc anymore.

    Ok, just tried out botrk>BFS>thornmail>BT>LW>Hurricane on Twitch. Managed to tank fed Garens' damage and Rengars' QQQ and lifesteal up while killed Zyra and Varus. Still died, but took 3 people with me. I hope my team would realise that chasing Rengar in forest has less priority than defending base from 4 megacreeps due to 2 dead inhibitors. Derp

    After looking at stats of this game, i realized that 6k magic damage dealt was from thornmail. Too bad i haven't seen how much magic damage i did to enemy champions, instead of everyone. And it was fun experience, when Rengar jumps on you under tower to QQ you to death, the he didn't realized that you are at 60% health after his combo, and he stands under my tower and takes hits while being slowed by botrk and cask AND he wasted all charges on QQ combo and can't help up. He was so shocked.

    - - - Updated - - -

    On another topic: I hate when jungler comes to bot to gank. He always steals creeps, pushes lane forwards and often don't achieve anything by doing it. Sometimes even feeds double buff to enemy carry and goes "lol report adc". I mean, there is no point, you, brainded jungler, to come to a lane if it is not showed under the tower.
    Last edited by Charge me Doctor; 2014-01-21 at 05:59 PM.

  3. #37963
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    I hate when jungler comes to bot to gank.
    Well it's his job, isn't it? Also lane tax.

  4. #37964
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    On another topic: I hate when jungler comes to bot to gank. He always steals creeps, pushes lane forwards and often don't achieve anything by doing it. Sometimes even feeds double buff to enemy carry and goes "lol report adc". I mean, there is no point, you, brainded jungler, to come to a lane if it is not showed under the tower.
    Sounds odd, I jungle all the time and never actually push the bot lane when attempting to gank. Usually you wanna get in there, see if you can wreck some havoc and get out, or at the very least sit in a bush for a good opportunity. Only time I try to attack creeps is if the lane is dead or not there, meaning the tower would just kill off the creeps anyways. Might as well get gold/exp out of it
    Last edited by Jibjabb; 2014-01-21 at 08:21 PM.

  5. #37965
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jibjabb View Post
    Sounds odd, I jungle all the time and never actually push the bot lane when attempting to gank. Usually you wanna get in there, see if you can wreck some havoc and get out, or at the very least sit in a bush for a good opportunity. Only time I try to attack creeps is if the lane is dead or not there, meaning the tower would just kill off the creeps anyways. Might as well get gold/exp out of it
    Well, using an AoE skill, getting aggro of creeps, all of these pushes lane forward. And many junglers are "ok" with smiting siege creep. Fucking retards, without it your lane shoves up enemy tower and can't be pulled back unless our siege creep dies. I lose around 6 creeps when jungler comes to gank me, and often we get nothing out of it. Usually i play of an edge where 1 dead enemy creep will allow my lane creeps move towards center and i will be in danger of gank.

    I've never seen (in this season) good ganks unless i called them by myself, when i see jungler moving to wolves and i see that i will manage to kill creeps by the time he comes and will probably taunt enemy by standing in range of enemy skills if they sit in bush

    And it's good to hear that junglers like you exist, but i've never got one like you. Usually after "a gank" i find myself standing under my tower at low HP while enemy farms two waves under tower, derp.
    Quote Originally Posted by PaulDok View Post
    Well it's his job, isn't it? Also lane tax.
    His "job" is staying away from lanes and farm in forest. Jungler is a guy who farms exp and gold on neutrals, if you want to gank as WW on 3rd level you are freaking horrible and coming to lane like this yelling "LANE TAX" for doing nothing and bishing you to enemy tower exposing to Heca gank, well, i think that's how todays jungler is played
    Last edited by Charge me Doctor; 2014-01-22 at 12:18 AM.

  6. #37966
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    Well, using an AoE skill, getting aggro of creeps, all of these pushes lane forward. And many junglers are "ok" with smiting siege creep. Fucking retards, without it your lane shoves up enemy tower and can't be pulled back unless our siege creep dies. I lose around 6 creeps when jungler comes to gank me, and often we get nothing out of it. Usually i play of an edge where 1 dead enemy creep will allow my lane creeps move towards center and i will be in danger of gank.

    Let's be clear on what we're discussing. I'm approaching this from a frequent jungler perspective. So, when I gank your lane and I live through the gank there will be 4 situations:

    a) Gank was unsuccessful and nobody died;
    b) Gank was successful and only the enemy died;
    c) Gank was unsuccessful and my laner died;
    d) Gank was successful (the enemy died) but my laner died too;

    For (a) and (b) I will probably charge lane tax which means I will take a couple minions. I spent time to gank your lane and help you so I need to get something back. Plus you do get the shared experience.

    For situations (c) and (d), unless it's too dangerous, I WILL push the lane enough to guarantee their minions aren't at your turret WHILE YOU ARE NOT THERE. If the ress timer is long enough then I will push to their turret. If you google "lane momentum" you will understand why that helps you. I know how to leave a lane pushing and I know that if I push to the turret then the enemy will lose lots of CS while you lose a minimum amount and the lane will start pushing towards you (which also minimizes YOUR cs loss).

    This last part is also valid if after a gank my laner goes B.

  7. #37967
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimord View Post
    Let's be clear on what we're discussing. I'm approaching this from a frequent jungler perspective. So, when I gank your lane and I live through the gank there will be 4 situations:

    a) Gank was unsuccessful and nobody died;
    b) Gank was successful and only the enemy died;
    c) Gank was unsuccessful and my laner died;
    d) Gank was successful (the enemy died) but my laner died too;

    This last part is also valid if after a gank my laner goes B.
    So, you get extra exp and gold from gank, and you steal gold and exp from your bot lane in these situations? You know, with "new" jungle changes, it's kinda hard to keep jungle creeps down, you have always 1-2 camps spawned unless there is no one else taking them, go back to your forest and creep there, no need to take these 200 gold from your adc, because often that's what you miss from getting BT and snowball to win

  8. #37968
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimord View Post
    snip
    a: i usually dont tax

    b: i help my teammate push so he can recall and have item advantage

    c: i stay in lane and push

    d: i push to their turret

    if i push lane it will most likely force the enemy jungler to come and clear the wave so other lanes will know where enemy jungler is
    http://oce.op.gg/summoner/userName=dw+soul+roc in oceanic now Lol

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  9. #37969
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimord View Post
    c) Gank was unsuccessful and my laner died;
    d) Gank was successful (the enemy died) but my laner died too;

    For (a) and (b) I will probably charge lane tax which means I will take a couple minions. I spent time to gank your lane and help you so I need to get something back. Plus you do get the shared experience.

    For situations (c) and (d), unless it's too dangerous, I WILL push the lane enough to guarantee their minions aren't at your turret WHILE YOU ARE NOT THERE. If the ress timer is long enough then I will push to their turret. If you google "lane momentum" you will understand why that helps you. I know how to leave a lane pushing and I know that if I push to the turret then the enemy will lose lots of CS while you lose a minimum amount and the lane will start pushing towards you (which also minimizes YOUR cs loss).
    Both these situations are unsuccessful gank. If your adc dies in the fight (against equally farmed adc, not that adc who already has 5 kills, it's kinda hard to kill him even with 3 persons), he loses exp, gold, and, possibly, he has no enough gold to buy damage upgrade and he will fall down against enemy adc who has this kill and got gold for it and has BFS now. My point is: unless your teammates are not shown upon a turret or they don't ask for a gank, don't gank bottom lane. Go in their jungle (that part that close to middle lane) and cooperate with more mobile guy on middle who has more spare time due to his lane being 2 waves short.

    And unless res timer is 40 seconds long, there is no chance that enemy creeps will push wave back when your dead adc returns to lane, second wave of creeps (by the time you pushed to the tower) will meet enemy creeps on middle of lane/near their tower.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulstrike View Post
    if i push lane it will most likely force the enemy jungler to come and clear the wave so other lanes will know where enemy jungler is
    That's actually good point. Lots of junglers go into yolo gank under towr with having no map awareness/common sense that enemy 6 Nocturne comes the same way and will kill him as soon as he YOLOs to enemy tower and we won't be able to help him

  10. #37970
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    ...

    After looking at stats of this game, i realized that 6k magic damage dealt was from thornmail. Too bad i haven't seen how much magic damage i did to enemy champions, instead of everyone. And it was fun experience, when Rengar jumps on you under tower to QQ you to death, the he didn't realized that you are at 60% health after his combo, and he stands under my tower and takes hits while being slowed by botrk and cask AND he wasted all charges on QQ combo and can't help up. He was so shocked.
    Eh, malphite's combo's gonna be doing some 1200-1500 damage before mr, with just tank items and something like a abyssal scepter and/or an hourglass, most of which will be aoe. Oneshot may be exaggerating, but you're definitely going to be dead if any other kind of damage hits you at the same time. As far as carries are concerned, they will be destroying you just by looking at you, at least if they have any clue what they're doing.

    I don't know how you really "tank" a fed gragas' damage, unless you have a lot of MR, or you're exaggerating more than just a little yourself, as it all hits you in the face at the same time and you die instantly. I'm sure we've all seen the clip where Kerp's gragas destroys a ~85% health nidalee with athene's in just Q+R, which is the kind of thing that a fed gragas does (without even using bodyslam); you don't life leech back out from the grave. Most bursty carries, when fed, can do similar things, even if they can't all do it as well as gragas does, or from as great a range... or in as large an aoe... Gragas, man.
    "Quack, quack, Mr. Bond."

  11. #37971
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cattlehunter View Post
    Eh, malphite's combo's gonna be doing some 1200-1500 damage before mr, with just tank items and something like a abyssal scepter and/or an hourglass, most of which will be aoe. Oneshot may be exaggerating, but you're definitely going to be dead if any other kind of damage hits you at the same time. As far as carries are concerned, they will be destroying you just by looking at you, at least if they have any clue what they're doing.

    I don't know how you really "tank" a fed gragas' damage, unless you have a lot of MR, or you're exaggerating more than just a little yourself, as it all hits you in the face at the same time and you die instantly. I'm sure we've all seen the clip where Kerp's gragas destroys a ~85% health nidalee with athene's in just Q+R, which is the kind of thing that a fed gragas does (without even using bodyslam); you don't life leech back out from the grave. Most bursty carries, when fed, can do similar things, even if they can't all do it as well as gragas does, or from as great a range... or in as large an aoe... Gragas, man.
    Maplites' combo can do 1200-1500 damage in he has more than 500 armour and ~300 AP which is kinda hard to achieve if game is not 50 minutes long. Also, Malphs ult at max range can be easily dodged.
    If you are an adc and want to focus enemy adc, you have to have HUGE attack range, or enemy adc have to be close enough to you (grabs, pulls, ambush him) or for him to be a retard and move towards you into a bunch of bruisers and tanks fighting between you two. You won't always will have a chance to shoot on enemy ADC, usually when you are able to shoot him, he is able to shoot you, and implying "glass-canonish" gameplay styles of adcs, you will kill each other in 3 crits.

    Actually, you've made me to ctrl+f "gragas" in my post, did you missread "Garen"?, i haven't ever said that i tanked fed Gragas, because fed Gragas is OPed as fuck and his ult does 70% of health to almost anyone. Same shit can be said about any fed AP carry, like, Lux. Get caught in any form of CC, bam, ult, dead.

    Well, on the other hand, Gragas is kinda balanced in the way Americal T34 is balanced in world of tanks. Lots of noobs play him and can't play him properly, but he has potential to destroy anything from range and he is very hard to shut down if played well.
    Last edited by Charge me Doctor; 2014-01-22 at 02:53 AM.

  12. #37972
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    Actually, you've made me to ctrl+f "gragas" in my post, did you missread "Garen"?, i haven't ever said that i tanked fed Gragas, because fed Gragas is OPed as fuck and his ult does 70% of health to almost anyone. Same shit can be said about any fed AP carry, like, Lux. Get caught in any form of CC, bam, ult, dead.
    Shit, I'm sorry, you're right, I read Garens' as Gragas', for some reason.
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  13. #37973
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Mionelol View Post
    Thank you. I now know what to play whenever I'm bored during lunch break at school.

  14. #37974
    Speaking of gragas. Without his ult, you don't have pick him for burst assassinations anymore (since other champs do it better) will he built like a tanky bruiser? With RoA and abyssal? I main gragas (back in back half of S2 so I'm not a sheep gragas player) and I'm curious as to what people are going to do.

  15. #37975
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    Lets play a game "what can possibly go wrong"

    Ziggs carried everyone. As usual, Annie went 0/5/0, then leeched kills and assists when Ziggs destroyed everyone :sadface:
    Last edited by Charge me Doctor; 2014-01-22 at 01:27 PM.

  16. #37976
    Deleted
    Yasuo is fun! Don't ban him

  17. #37977
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hybr1d View Post
    Yasuo is fun! Don't ban him
    Ain't fun when he tornadoes your anus.

  18. #37978
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    Both these situations are unsuccessful gank. If your adc dies in the fight (against equally farmed adc, not that adc who already has 5 kills, it's kinda hard to kill him even with 3 persons), he loses exp, gold, and, possibly, he has no enough gold to buy damage upgrade and he will fall down against enemy adc who has this kill and got gold for it and has BFS now. My point is: unless your teammates are not shown upon a turret or they don't ask for a gank, don't gank bottom lane. Go in their jungle (that part that close to middle lane) and cooperate with more mobile guy on middle who has more spare time due to his lane being 2 waves short.

    And unless res timer is 40 seconds long, there is no chance that enemy creeps will push wave back when your dead adc returns to lane, second wave of creeps (by the time you pushed to the tower) will meet enemy creeps on middle of lane/near their tower.
    Again, it's a matter of awareness and conscience on how the lane is going. Plus, to be fair, ADCs are no longer the ultra-carries they used to be so most of the time it's not so bad for them to share with the jungler. And yes, I can go back to the jungle and farm, and I will, but it also depends on the gank. Some junglers have no patience while others will sit in that bush for over 30 seconds waiting for the perfect pounce and hey, it's a team game, being so greedy as to never want anybody to take any of your minions is a bit.. Meh.

  19. #37979
    Quote Originally Posted by Mionelol View Post
    have to ban yasuo again ;___;
    Pretty much this. We won one earlier where he 1v4'd (literally, he 1v4'd, took an inhib and both Nexus turrets) and now we lost a game where he could 2v1 Kha and Zed at the same time. He builds two damage items and becomes 6 item Vayne and can then build tanky! It's cool.

  20. #37980
    I laughed when i read that "Yasuo was in a good place" and they were keeping a close on eye on him if he needed buffs. Like really, from day 1 Yasuo was op af.

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