The League of Legends thread

[Deleted]

I don't think everyone should be able to jungle. When we have so many champions already, I don't think there's any danger of being too restricted when it comes to jungle picks. 99% of people play established junglers anyway, people only play things like jungle Annie to be silly. It wouldn't be a big loss to see them unable to jungle.

[akts]

Because he's not designed to have that easy of a time in the jungle

Says who? What is exactly good about the idea of having "hard" jungle for specific champions? Maybe you can explain what exactly is or should be hard, skill-dependant about jungle routes aside from ganking of course. At least you have to lasthit in lanes.

But why should Shyvana and WW have the same sustain in the jungle if Shy can both clear it faster and have better early ganks? WW should be stronger in the jungle early because he only has sustain to push him through, he doesnt have amazing speed times and his pre-6 ganks are crap, so why should AoE junglers have it better on both fronts than a sustain single-target jungler?

But why should Ez have a better damage output that Ashe, if he has a bonus free escape, AS-reduction and better poke? Warwick is just old, can't catch up with fancy new champs. Has nothing to do with jungle specifically. Lanewick pls.

[nbm02ss]

Harder jungle you say? Sign me up.

[Deleted]

Well time to dump alistar and nautilius in the trash and bring back nunu.

[Boomcats]

But why should Ez have a better damage output that Ashe, if he has a bonus free escape, AS-reduction and better poke? Warwick is just old, can't catch up with fancy new champs. Has nothing to do with jungle specifically. Lanewick pls.

You aren't understanding what he is saying, Ez is a bad example because Ez is better then every ADC and Morello has acknowledged he needs a full round of nerfs.

WW was designed to be a jungle champion, that was his original intent- as was Nunu and plenty of other champions. We have 100 champions now, there is no need for every champion with an AoE to be able to jungle, most of the time even better then the champions straight up designed with jungle in mind.

Just as you wouldn't support Annie or Draven, not every single person should be able to jungle. Also with the ease of the jungle, whether the jungle likes it or not, mid is going to take wraiths, setting you back even farther.

I just want jungle to be slightly more rewarding now, not quite as hard as S1, but more difficult then - lulz jungle Karthus I can do it as long as I have armor Yellows

I mean essentially the only requirements right now to be able to jungle are:
Armor Yellows
Cloth 5 pots if you play someone squishy
teammates that won't rage at you

Thats really how the jungle was designed? With that situation in mind?

[Ragu4]

The ' just sits' part yes, but a good Blitz can and will anticipate your movement properly. I'm not talking about pro players that can dodge exactly at the right time (based on the dead giveaway charge) such as was done in the TPA - AF match, but the reach on that shot is huge. People always tell me, don't cross your skillshots because you will miss. I personally say, cross your skillshots as often as you can, until you stop missing and eventually never miss.

Nothing is more annoying than a Blitz that pushes people below their tower, by missing all the time, basically taking away any opportunity to make any kills. but nothing is more satisfying than a Blitz that has that perfect touch and just keeps pulling people from under that tower. After which I as Leona jump in for a series of stuns and hopefully that precious assist

Well, the blitz did this basically every grab, the ashe just couldn't seem to grasp that she was about to get grabbed. BTW after the 5th strait grab she decided to jungle, fits with the new carry jungle topic lol.

[akts]

You aren't understanding what he is saying, Ez is a bad example because Ez is better then every ADC and Morello has acknowledged he needs a full round of nerfs.

I understand it perfectly. Ez is the best ADC atm? Yes. He needs nerfs? Yes. Is Sejuani weak jungler? Yes. Needs buffs? Yes. Is WW weak jungler/toplaner? Yes. Needs buffs reworks? Well tell me if he does not, I'll be interested to hear your reasoning.

Just as you wouldn't support Annie or Draven, not every single person should be able to jungle.

Oh please tell me more how any champion that has no support tag is not able to support. I dare, double dare you.

And then people whine about stale meta and passive lane farmfest. Bhaaaaa!

[Deleted]

Says who? What is exactly good about the idea of having "hard" jungle for specific champions? Maybe you can explain what exactly is or should be hard, skill-dependant about jungle routes aside from ganking of course. At least you have to lasthit in lanes.

Please stop equivocating my words, it's pretty obvious I didn't mean "easy" as in skillfully easy.

[akts]

Please stop equivocating my words, it's pretty obvious I didn't mean "easy" as in skillfully easy.

Then please explain what is the exact purpose of limiting jungle champion pool. What is bad about having the ability to jungle with Katarina. Because all other champion pools are not restricted. You can support Annie. You can (read in dat voice) bruser Lux. You can AD kennen, AP rengar. Is that effective? Well most of those are certainly not, but some are. Support Zyra as our latest star. What is the harm if jungle Kat will be possible but ineffective?

Right now I haven't seen any reasoning behind raising jungle entrance requirements aside from "well it should not designed that way" which sounds to me much like "well, I think only A-E pawns should be eligible for promotion". How so?

[Toxigen]

True story - my team got rocked by a jungle Kat the other night.

Why would anyone want to say "well this champion can only be in this lane" ?

[Deleted]

Community and Riot: "ermagerd current meta is super boring!!"
*current jungle allows for a lot of diversity and different champions being able to jungle*
Riot changes jungle, removing the diversity.

Community and Riot: "ermagerd games are too boring, we want more action!"
Riot changes jungle to reward FARMING instead of GANKING.


-

Warwick's problem does not lie with the current jungle, at all. He's just fucking outdated. This is the same reason you dont see Annie, Ashe, Fiddle, etc etc at a top level play anymore. If you wanna make them more viable, do some reworks on the champions. WW is quite damn useless outside of his ultimate, wich is useless come teamfights. You cant have a champion who only works during lanephase and for picking enemies alone, he's worse than a Singed running around being tanky and poking people. They were good once, new champions came along, did their job and much, much, more.

The current jungle is pretty damn good. Allows for some great diversity, to change things up. It's aggressive and promotes aggressive play; counter-jungling, ganking, map-control, instead of zzz-farming your jungle only to gank every blue moon. And you complain about that? There really is no pleasing with you guys.

[Deleted]

Then please explain what is the exact purpose of limiting jungle champion pool.

There was not a single champion you could not jungle with in S1 jungle if you tried hard enough. (Even LeBlanc worked)

What is bad about having the ability to jungle with Katarina. Because all other champion pools are not restricted. You can support Annie.

Except the way the jungle is designed means that by making some champions able to jungle, you're nerfing several of the people who already can, this is not true in lane.

(Since it seems I have to clarify, jungling =/= doing your entire path and coming out at 90% health independent of who you're playing)

[Deleted]

I think it has more to do with how the top teams distribute their farm and the effects of that on the jungle champion pool.

In solo queue pretty much anything is viable in jungle anyways. But in top play the teams just give the camps to the laners instead leaving the junglers with close to no farm at all, it´s like seeing a morbidly obese man stealing food from a starving child. Which then leads to the jungle pool being limited because only junglers who can function without items become viable.

Not sure how the change is supposed to fix that but I hope Riot know what they are doing.

[akts]

There was not a single champion you could not jungle with in S1 jungle if you tried hard enough. (Even LeBlanc worked

Recalling after every camp is jungling? Ok.

Except the way the jungle is designed means that by making some champions able to jungle, you're nerfing several of the people who already can, this is not true in lane.

(Since it seems I have to clarify, jungling =/= doing your entire path and coming out at 90% health independent of who you're playing)

Vlad pls. Video pls.

[Deleted]

Recalling after every camp is jungling? Ok.

No but I'm pretty sure LeBlanc could do blue, wolves and wraiths at the very least before going home. It wouldn't be a stretch to say that she might've been able to do red too if Stonewall wasn't bored.

Vlad pls. Video pls.

I'm unsure what you want a video of but I'm making a really special one for you right now.

About 15 minutes in, enjoy.
inb4 "but he smote blue"
Any decent team can do about 445 damage to blue before getting out of there, if you're on purple, shit, they'll probably do even more than that.
inb4 "but you used heal"
Yeah, I did use heal. I believe we were talking about possible, not optimal junglers, right?

[Boomcats]

I think it has more to do with how the top teams distribute their farm and the effects of that on the jungle champion pool.

In solo queue pretty much anything is viable in jungle anyways. But in top play the teams just give the camps to the laners instead leaving the junglers with close to no farm at all, it´s like seeing a morbidly obese man stealing food from a starving child. Which then leads to the jungle pool being limited because only junglers who can function without items become viable.

Not sure how the change is supposed to fix that but I hope Riot know what they are doing.

This is exactly it. Sure you can play any champion in regulars, or even low ELO soloQ ranked- but you are gimping your team immensely. The problem with having anybody jungle is that your team comp isn't optimized by it under the current meta- which is influenced by the state of the jungle.

We can debate chicken or egg here- but the jungle changes influenced the meta in my opinion, and if you want to win (high ELO or tourney play) you take a jungle who doesn't need creep to be effective and can buy Gp10 items as to give up camps to mid or the carries.

Thats not fun, thats just a second slightly more active support. People hate support as is- this jungle encourages another one if you really want to excel- just look at the picks/bans from this last tourney.

Maokai, skarner, hell even nunu all fit this description.

Edit- i also love the guy above me posting Vlad jungle.

[personn5]

OT, but:
For whatever reason, but by how shift didn't work(assuming you were trying to do emotes) they changed those to control now.

[Axethor]

I personally, am a fan of jungle kat because I hate playing her mid lane, but even I know she sucks. Her clear is okay but her ganks are pretty bad since she has no CC. Fun in a normal or with friends, but nothing you would use normally.

This is the problem with the current jungle. It gives the illusion of choice when really it's just an easy version of the old jungle where AoE works better instead of single target sustain. It's still used as another lane for a tank/initiator type character. The season 3 jungle is supposed to make it so more roles can be filled in the jungle.

---------- Post added 2012-10-16 at 01:49 PM ----------

OT, but:
For whatever reason, but by how shift didn't work(assuming you were trying to do emotes) they changed those to control now.

ctrl 1,2,3,4 now.

[Deleted]

OT, but:
For whatever reason, but by how shift didn't work(assuming you were trying to do emotes) they changed those to control now.

Well, it's pretty apparent now that Valve > Riot.

Contest is over, guys.

[personn5]

Until we want Dota 3. Then we'll never see it.

Edit: Scumbag Riot. Wukong skin on sale last week. Wukong on sale this week.