Vote kicked for PvP gear.

[Maxed Out]

erm, ive got 10 85's as of today, all in mixed gear and item levels, some in PVP blues some in epics, some in full PVE Epics some in greens and blue pve gear....

Fact of the matter is we all start somewhere. And for me, i know how to play my class and if i feel im subpar ill just leave, but i refuse to vote kick someone due to there gear.

If the tanks gear isnt great, and im not healing, ill let the healer dictate if the tank is viable or not.

If im tanking and the healer just can NOT keep me up win 359 iLvL itemized for tanking and in PVE gear epics, then ill vote kick in a heartbeat.

Basically, i dont give a crap what you're wearing, if u can hold your own then youre good enough for me.

Ive had healers in epic's that just couldnt cut it, maybe they just werent paying attention, but in the end if u suck u suck...Ive had MANY PVP geared healers just do wonderful, even in the new ZG/ZA heroics, id say 5/8ths of the PVP geared healers ive had in them 2 heroics did wonderful with only wipes due to moronic DPS with full epics standing in green shit taking 50k+dmg per tick and wondering why they died...


Point being, tome anyway, Kick the player, not the gear...

So annoying to try and gear up all my charcters either in PVE or PVP gear and people whining and complaining about my gear, then given the chance, i 9/10 times outplay them in there 346 blues.

YES, if i had full 346 PVE gear i would, even with just pure numbers and math, out do even myself than if i only had 352 pvp gear.

Even for a healer, its not a bad deal, on my resto druid (99% PVP playing) i can go into ZG/ZA and heal jut fine in blue pvp gear with the epic staff. Almost all my gear has spirit on it and lots of int, yeah i lose some haste and crit, who cares, ive got a huge mana pool with plenty of regen and intellect to keep the tank and party alive.

Kick me cuz I suck, cuz I I I I I suck, not my gear.


(Better gear is good, but if u cant play well, no matter what gear u got, u suck anyway)

[Mitak]

i had a grp where the 3 dps were full tier 9 pvp. It was the most fun ZA ive tanked. Those guys were like on drugs, even when they pulled, they were freaking inmmortal, stuns, slows everything till i get aggro off them. I guess they knew each other and were communicating because some pulls they did were almost giving me a heart attack, yet they managed everything pro style better than pve players ive been with. I will never kick a pvp geared player unless its a healer or tank and under performs.

Those who say they kick just because of the gear are racist, judging only by the "colour" of the gear instead of the actual performance.

[Stuffedtreats]

Sympathies to the OP. I do disagree with the LFD tool needing a change. The votekick system is fine. I don't votekick based on a persons gear at the start of the instance. Ever. I only go by performance. Was with a full pvp frost mage doing a solid 14k dps in ZA. There was no need to kick. Then did another ZA with a 358 ilvl ret pala in pve gear that was barely doing 9k dps. Clearly it's not a gear issue in these heroics but a player issue.

[Lilyania]

Fact of the matter is we all start somewhere. And for me, i know how to play my class and if i feel im subpar ill just leave, but i refuse to vote kick someone due to there gear.
Basically, i dont give a crap what you're wearing, if u can hold your own then youre good enough for me.

Sadly, not everyone is you.

As long as the tank ins't DPS or PvP geared up the ***, I'm okay with it unless they are doing a bad job at doing their job.

[Maxed Out]

lol we did a BH 25 pug, there was this rogue in full PVP gear, minus trinkets (hit rating ones).

At first i was like awwwwwwe man this guy isnt gonna be able to even HIT the damn boss much less pull 10k+ dps...

Fight starts, kill boss, fights over, rogue is amongst the top 10 DPS doing around 17k dps.

Dude had reforged his gear for hit rating when i inspected him just about .13% above his hit cap. everything else was just his skill with his class.

I would take him any day over the 3 other rogues we had pulling 10k dps in 346/359 PVE gear who didnt know when to hit what button to use whichever ability.

Such a strong believer in player > gear.

Even when i form my own raids, ill take someone in PVP gear, i give them this stipulation before the fights start:

"Ill take you, but if u cannot perform as you stated, and are slacking, you wil not receive items due to the mere fact you got carried"

some leave (they prolly suck and lied about there DPS) some stay normally doing what they promised me they would, some stay and do NOT perform as they stated, at which that point they are counted out on a loot roll.

Sounds fair enough to me. Tell me you pull 10k and you pull 5k, why should you get rewarded for lying and sucking.

I know this is about heroics and PVP gear but its in the same school of problems. I can go to BH with my arms war in pvp gear and do 5kdps more than the fury war with 346 PVE gear, so long as im hit/exp cap'd (which i am)

[Azoth]

I am happy as there was a blue post a couple weeks ago discussing the idea of making all pvp gear ilvl of 1 so they could partially fix some of the heroic problems of people cheating the instance requirements. By doing that blizzard will fix alot of the cheating and also keep every single person in all pvp gear out of heroics as they dont qualify with their pvp gear of ilvl 1.

I am hoping 4.2 will have this change in it as it will fix alot of problems people run into in heroics.

While I'm not a big fan of PvP gear in heroics it can fill in some holes in gear. The only leather 346+ pre-raid bracers I could get for my resto druid that had spirit were the Vicious Gladiator's Bindings of Meditation. This was prior to ZA being released of course.

I don't think blizzard should tag PvP gear with an iLevel of 1 for the random dungeon finder but there should definitely be a 10-15% iLevel penalty for the item. Tagging it as 1 means the item is 100% usless which of course it isn't. The strength, intellect, spirit, crit, haste, mastery all serve some usefulness... it's all that resilience that has no benefit.

Basically I've always thought that the iLevel calculations for RDF needs to be much smarter. Non-equipped items and items that don't have the primary stat for the role you are selected for shouldn't be part of the calculation.

[gamingmuscle]

I think most people (myself included) figure that if the person doesn't realize pve gear is better for pve, they're probably not going to do well anyway.

Summary: Good players don't shoot themselves in the foot before they're out of the gate.

Good players can also do the job in lesser gear. So if he can handle heroics in pvp gear, he doesn't need to waste the time of building a complete pve set from scratch to do heroics. While doing said heroics he should however be picking up some pve gear =P

[Arcdragon]

5mans are srs bsns.

Honestly, if bosses die, players don't and there is no wiping then there is no reason to get all butt-hurt over people who use a little pvp gear.
Not everyone is in a serious raiding guild (or even raids, casual players are still players) so they shouldn't be pre-emptively kicked for using a 359 pvp weapon over a 346 pve weapon--which is the best you can get unless you not only raid, but raid enough to win your ideal weapon.

Too many people are confusing 5man heroics with heroic raids. True resilience is a wasted stat in pve but if using pvp gloves and leggings means I get over 100 strength over using 353 pve gloves and leggings, the stats wasted on resilence cease to matter.

I don't raid on my DK at present so he uses a mix of pve and pvp gear. I have in his bags Vicious Gladiator's Dreadplate Gauntlets and Legguards vs Jungle Striders and Plunderer's Gauntlets.
Now lets look at the stats not including resilience, gems nor enchants:

Vicious Gladiator's Dreadplate Gauntlets
Vicious Gladiator's Dreadplate Legguards
Total stats: 201 haste, 159 hit and 639 strength (2pc set bonus gives +70 str)

Jungle Striders
Plunderer's Gauntlets
Total stats: 336 haste, 349 expertise and 473 strength.

I'll refrain from pointing out the armour difference of 180 which scales with Bladed armour.

So, are you seriously going to tell me that 135 haste and 349 exp vs 159 hit out weighs 166 strength? 166 strength which scales with kings, talents, Rune of the Fallen Crusader and either Unholy Might or Pillar of Frost?

And sure, some of you might be keen to point out that by now I should have my pve tier gear! Well if I raided I'm sure I would but I don't and while I could have spent more time grinding for them, I instead grinded for my pve TANKING gear.
4.2 is coming soon and as it is, I already top dps meters unless against people in full heroic raiding gear.

And thats another thing, even if I was able to get group that could do a timed run and then win a roll against the tank (or dps if I am tanking) for Reforged Trollbane, its STILL less dps than Vicious Gladiator's Greatsword.
To anyone who thinks I'm "lazy" for not getting Zin'rohk--save it, I already have the 60 version and I'm too busy having this thing called a life to grind Archeology.

WoW is my game, not my job.

If I was planning to raid seriously as a DK dps, I'd spend the time to get whatever tier gear I could and still do ace dps with my pvp sword while saving my DKP for Akirus.
But I'm doing 5mans, get off my nuts.


Edit: I am sure someone will point out that frost DW is better than frost 2h or Unholy. First of all, Unholy was better at first and will probably pull ahead of Frost in 4.2. Second I use 359 Lava Spine (From a single raid I did months ago but I have since become too busy with my job) & Zulian Slasher.
Still my argument is valid: outside of raids, pvp weapons are the best you can get unless you plan to drop thousands of gold for some BoE. (am I lazy for not grinding 50k gold for something I'll replace in 4.2?)

Say you're a warrior and your choices are Jetlik's Smasher, a pvp 2hander or Mobus's Dripping Halberd from the AH: The first is less dps, the second has strength and resilience while the third has agility and a 3.00 speed.
The choice is clear.


Hey here's a pop quiz for you people who are smarter than me, which off-hand paired with my Lava Spine would make me do more dps? Zulian Slasher or Vicious Gladiator's Slicer?

I'll give you a clue, its the pvp weapon: weapon damage is one stat that no amount of haste or mastery can overcome. Unless you're hacking.

[Luko]

If I was planning to raid seriously as a DK dps, I'd spend the time to get whatever tier gear I could and still do ace dps with my pvp sword while saving my DKP for Akirus.
But I'm doing 5mans, get off my nuts.

Blah blah. You just spent the last 10 minutes typing up a list of self righteous reasons why you don't care about PVE gear and favor your own PVP gear instead for DPS increase, completely ignoring the concept of stacking your preferred secondary stat in favor of more strength or damage on your PVP item.

Cool. So why the hell are you in my PVE run?

[theturn]

Well not right off the bat but my patient level with you is severely limited. I had a resto druid who had one of the worse specs I have ever seen but he was able to do his job so he stayed. You can use pvp gear but if you wipe your spot is on the line.

[Ascend]

You probably are assuming that is the reason, and not because you might not be a good player.

You are really dumb, for real. "Oh hey guys, look at this healer who we totally haven't seen heal yet, let's kick him because he's a bad player! OMNISCIENT BEINGS ARE WE!"

[theturn]

5mans are srs bsns.

Honestly, if bosses die, players don't and there is no wiping then there is no reason to get all butt-hurt over people who use a little pvp gear.
Not everyone is in a serious raiding guild (or even raids, casual players are still players) so they shouldn't be pre-emptively kicked for using a 359 pvp weapon over a 346 pve weapon--which is the best you can get unless you not only raid, but raid enough to win your ideal weapon.

Too many people are confusing 5man heroics with heroic raids. True resilience is a wasted stat in pve but if using pvp gloves and leggings means I get over 100 strength over using 353 pve gloves and leggings, the stats wasted on resilence cease to matter.

I don't raid on my DK at present so he uses a mix of pve and pvp gear. I have in his bags Vicious Gladiator's Dreadplate Gauntlets and Legguards vs Jungle Striders and Plunderer's Gauntlets.
Now lets look at the stats not including resilience, gems nor enchants:

Vicious Gladiator's Dreadplate Gauntlets
Vicious Gladiator's Dreadplate Legguards
Total stats: 201 haste, 159 hit and 639 strength (2pc set bonus gives +70 str)

Jungle Striders
Plunderer's Gauntlets
Total stats: 336 haste, 349 expertise and 473 strength.

I'll refrain from pointing out the armour difference of 180 which scales with Bladed armour.

So, are you seriously going to tell me that 135 haste and 349 exp vs 159 hit out weighs 166 strength? 166 strength which scales with kings, talents, Rune of the Fallen Crusader and either Unholy Might or Pillar of Frost?

And sure, some of you might be keen to point out that by now I should have my pve tier gear! Well if I raided I'm sure I would but I don't and while I could have spent more time grinding for them, I instead grinded for my pve TANKING gear.
4.2 is coming soon and as it is, I already top dps meters unless against people in full heroic raiding gear.

And thats another thing, even if I was able to get group that could do a timed run and then win a roll against the tank (or dps if I am tanking) for Reforged Trollbane, its STILL less dps than Vicious Gladiator's Greatsword.
To anyone who thinks I'm "lazy" for not getting Zin'rohk--save it, I already have the 60 version and I'm too busy having this thing called a life to grind Archeology.

WoW is my game, not my job.

If I was planning to raid seriously as a DK dps, I'd spend the time to get whatever tier gear I could and still do ace dps with my pvp sword while saving my DKP for Akirus.
But I'm doing 5mans, get off my nuts.


Edit: I am sure someone will point out that frost DW is better than frost 2h or Unholy. First of all, Unholy was better at first and will probably pull ahead of Frost in 4.2. Second I use 359 Lava Spine (From a single raid I did months ago but I have since become too busy with my job) & Zulian Slasher.
Still my argument is valid: outside of raids, pvp weapons are the best you can get unless you plan to drop thousands of gold for some BoE. (am I lazy for not grinding 50k gold for something I'll replace in 4.2?)

Say you're a warrior and your choices are Jetlik's Smasher, a pvp 2hander or Mobus's Dripping Halberd from the AH: The first is less dps, the second has strength and resilience while the third has agility and a 3.00 speed.
The choice is clear.


Hey here's a pop quiz for you people who are smarter than me, which off-hand paired with my Lava Spine would make me do more dps? Zulian Slasher or Vicious Gladiator's Slicer?

I'll give you a clue, its the pvp weapon: weapon damage is one stat that no amount of haste or mastery can overcome. Unless you're hacking.

Are you stat capped?(expertise, hit) Thats alot of expertise to lose and pvp gear never has enough hit or expertise on it.

[Deleted]

Depends on how much pvp gear and who generally I'd say no, the only one that really would be hurting from pvp gear is the tank, also if they are just wearing 2 or 4 pieces for set bonuses then that would be alot better than the 346 gear for most classes.

[Arcdragon]

Are you stat capped?(expertise, hit) Thats alot of expertise to lose and pvp gear never has enough hit or expertise on it.

Yes, without reforging. I actually have had to reforge some of my hit.

---------- Post added 2011-06-14 at 06:00 PM ----------

Blah blah. You just spent the last 10 minutes typing up a list of self righteous reasons why you don't care about PVE gear and favor your own PVP gear instead for DPS increase, completely ignoring the concept of stacking your preferred secondary stat in favor of more strength or damage on your PVP item.

Cool. So why the hell are you in my PVE run?

You clearly didn't read my post. I never said I don't care about pve gear, I said its not essential in 5man dungeons. And stat priority exists for a reason: you do more dps with higher weapon damage and bucketloads of strength.

And who said it was your run? I'm the one topping the dps.