So they are trying to say this: Zandalari > Heroic BWD/BOT/TO4W

[Hellforge]

I know there are around 5-6 threads about VP cap lowered etc
but this is slightly different.


According to the notes, they said 1 complete zandalari will still be 140vp no change. Cap with zandalari is still 980 no change
overall cap is now 980 from 1250 (ok shall not touch on this, we all know its fail decision and enough on this)

heroic pre firelands bosses now awards 35 vp
so they are implying these bosses are easier than zandalari? because the VP gain makes no sense
its halved, are they trying to say the difficulty in heroic modes is halved too? ( i know when we outgear it with firelands gear it will be)
but where does the "heroic" title stands? Heroic AC is still going to be a chore? How does a mere 35 points justify guilds defeating such tedious encounter?
zandalari difficulty remains the same as 4.1, how faceroll will that dungeon be in 4.2 overgeared situation?

PS: Oh damn i cant help but rant about the 980 cap, please allow me. DAMN WHO's IDEA WAS IT??!! TO ALLOW CASUALS NOT RAID AND GAIN VP CAP

[Tastyfish]

new cap is to extend content, thats all. Look at it as 2 options: Raid or pickup in heroics. Keeps folks with little time, and folks with too much on the same field initally.

[Weightless]

I know there are around 5-6 threads about VP cap lowered etc
but this is slightly different.


According to the notes, they said 1 complete zandalari will still be 140vp no change. Cap with zandalari is still 980 no change
overall cap is now 980 from 1250 (ok shall not touch on this, we all know its fail decision and enough on this)

heroic pre firelands bosses now awards 35 vp
so they are implying these bosses are easier than zandalari? because the VP gain makes no sense
its halved, are they trying to say the difficulty in heroic modes is halved too? ( i know when we outgear it with firelands gear it will be)
but where does the "heroic" title stands? Heroic AC is still going to be a chore? How does a mere 35 points justify guilds defeating such tedious encounter?


PS: Oh damn i cant help but rant about the 980 cap, please allow me. DAMN WHO's IDEA WAS IT??!! TO ALLOW CASUALS NOT RAID AND GAIN VP CAP

I don't understand what the problem is. You already had 6 months to kill t11 content. If you haven't yet, then too bad. The heroic fights are essentially going to be easier because you are going to be overgearing it in t12 gear, so doing them after 4.2 isn't even that "hard" anyway. Blizzard wants people to focus on CURRENT content while it is current. If you want hard content, you do what is current now, not what was current a few months ago.

It was like this in later Wrath, 5mans gave Frost Badges. I don't see why people are making such a big deal about it now. When are people going to realize, -gear- shouldn't be the only motivation to raid. The raid and the act of raiding should be the motivation itself, the challenge and the success. Not the fucking gear, gear is just a tool, who the fuck cares how "casuals" get gear.

[Hellforge]

I don't understand what the problem is. You already had 6 months to kill t11 content. If you haven't yet, then too bad. The heroic fights are essentially going to be easier because you are going to be overgearing it in t12 gear, so doing them after 4.2 isn't even that "hard" anyway. Blizzard wants people to focus on CURRENT content while it is current. If you want hard content, you do what is current now, not what was current a few months ago.

It was like this in later Wrath, 5mans gave Frost Badges. I don't see why people are making such a big deal about it now. When are people going to realize, -gear- shouldn't be the only motivation to raid. The raid and the act of raiding should be the motivation itself, the challenge and the success. Not the fucking gear, gear is just a tool, who the fuck cares how "casuals" get gear.

your comments didnt justify zandalari?
so its harder in 4.2?
i faceroll zandalari boss solo (all soloable bosses)
in 4.2 im going to get ultimate overgeared
double faceroll zandala until i can solo even jindo?

[darkwarrior42]

How does a mere 35 points justify guilds defeating such tedious encounter?

If you're asking this question, get the hell out of raids, because you're obviously not raiding for the sake of raiding. Enjoy getting your easy valor points from 5-mans and be done with it.

[Kisuro]

This thread appears to be a variation of "casuals are gunna get mah purplz".

[Weightless]

your comments didnt justify zandalari?
so its harder in 4.2?
i faceroll zandalari boss solo (all soloable bosses)
in 4.2 im going to get ultimate overgeared
double faceroll zandala until i can solo even jindo?

How do my comments not justify zandalari by saying "They did this in Wrath too when 5mans gave Frost Badges". What's the big deal? It lets people who don't/can't raid on some weeks the chance to not fall behind so far, while the people who DO raid have the advantage by having normal mode and heroic mode gear. Raiders still have the better gear from heroic modes, while everyone else isn't completely left behind, they can do 5mans to get the normal mode gear.

Who cares how other people get their gear, it isn't even the best gear. They've been doing this since Wrath, how is this a surprise to anyone? The better players are still going to be in better gear anyway.

[Ineras]

I think your mistake lies in assuming that VP has a correlation to boss difficulty.

[Hellforge]

If you're asking this question, get the hell out of raids, because you're obviously not raiding for the sake of raiding. Enjoy getting your easy valor points from 5-mans and be done with it.

make some sense bro lol
easy valor? i rather no vp is awarded from zandalari.

[zingar]

not exactly sure how was it in WOTLK but wasnt it more or less the same thing? as in, naxx bosses giving some crappy old currency and faceroll heroics were giving justice points (except for the daily) which werent "raid" points but were still wayy more valuable than the shit you could get at naxx and maybe ulduar as well

so yea it sucks and it doesnt make any sense but its been like this for a while i believe

its funny because heroics get easier and easier every patch due to gear and class buffs, but their reward instead of getting crappier and crappier as well, it just gets better and better

[Weightless]

make some sense bro lol
easy valor? i rather no vp is awarded from zandalari.

So how do those of us who have cleared t11 content get capped? Firelands won't get you capped on it's own. It would make raiders who have been farming t11 for months go back into t11 for the sake of capping? Wasting our raid time just for the sake of VP which doesn't even get you that much, 2/3 tier pieces and a few offpieces, and then you spend the next several months selling BoEs and 4.2 primordial saronites. It isn't a big deal to have 5mans, which can be done out of raid time, help you cap out VP.

Again, if you wanted to clear t11 content, you had 6months to do it. If you didn't, then too bad, that time is passed. The t12 gear nerfs t11 anyway because you're overgearing it anyway.

[Linzo]

this is probably not gonna make it to live.

[Weightless]

make some sense bro lol
easy valor? i rather no vp is awarded from zandalari.

He means that you're obviously raiding for gear, which isn't the mindset of good players. Good players realize that gear comes and goes, the point of raiding is the challenge, not the gear. And again, it's not the BiS gear anyway that comes from VP, so I still don't see why you are upset. Go do heroic modes if you want better-than-VP gear.

---------- Post added 2011-06-11 at 11:51 AM ----------

this is probably not gonna make it to live.

Why wouldn't it? Don't you remember Wrath?

[Usagi Senshi]

I raid and I'm okay with this. Its not like you can get the best gear just from the valor vendor or anything. Chill out.

[Calzaeth]

Simple math states that if Valor points is ALL you care about when raiding, then one Zandalari clear is only better than H T4W. A full clear of BoT is 35 x 5 = 175, so more VP than a Zanda clear, while H BWD would net a pointhoarding guild 210VP. So you've already failed in the title.

Furthermore, the H raids will drop 372 gear, while Zandas will sprinkle some 353 goodness on you. THERE IS NO WAY A ZANDA CLEAR CAN EVER COMPETE WITH HEROIC RAIDS. If the Caps Lock didn't help you understand this, I can also type it in norwegian, if you'd prefer.

[Weightless]

And again, who cares about raiding t11 heroic modes in t12?

Firstly, you will already be "nerfing" the encounters because you'll be massively overgearing it. Will it make your epeen feel good when you finally kill bosses that you over gear? If you want the hard encounters, t12 heroics will be there. But if you just want to feel good about yourself, t11 heroics are there for you to overgear.

[Gabriel Bear]

I know there are around 5-6 threads about VP cap lowered etc
but this is slightly different.


According to the notes, they said 1 complete zandalari will still be 140vp no change. Cap with zandalari is still 980 no change
overall cap is now 980 from 1250 (ok shall not touch on this, we all know its fail decision and enough on this)

heroic pre firelands bosses now awards 35 vp
so they are implying these bosses are easier than zandalari? because the VP gain makes no sense
its halved, are they trying to say the difficulty in heroic modes is halved too? ( i know when we outgear it with firelands gear it will be)
but where does the "heroic" title stands? Heroic AC is still going to be a chore? How does a mere 35 points justify guilds defeating such tedious encounter?
zandalari difficulty remains the same as 4.1, how faceroll will that dungeon be in 4.2 overgeared situation?

PS: Oh damn i cant help but rant about the 980 cap, please allow me. DAMN WHO's IDEA WAS IT??!! TO ALLOW CASUALS NOT RAID AND GAIN VP CAP

You're math is way off. WAY off. 980 is the VP cap you can obtain WITHOUT raiding. The cap REMAINS at 1250 if you can complete raid content.

The reason it was halved was to give guilds incentive to NOT do that content that don't need to do that content. My priest is 355 and in a good raid guild. My DK tank main was 360 without pvp gear before I rerolled to help out the guild. We already have heroic modes down in normal t11 content. I feel just fine going into firelands in my current gear setup.

Go read the blue posts in the US general discussion, one titled "Will tokens be needed for VP->JP gear in 4.2?". That should explain a few things. I cant post links due to low posting amount. I shall contribute more!

Content is stepping stones, the only difference this time is that the fact blizzard is having a more active role in guiding people to do the content they want you to do. They want you in the most current content, not being an "Ulduar" guild in an "ICC LK is out and already downed on your server" era.

The points are there to give people incentive to farm the content to those that already have the loot. Why would you want to give people the same amount of valor points for doing old RAID content as new raid content? And comparing ZG/ZA to raiding valor weight is just foolish.

Look at it like this. 346 heroic gear got you 359 right at the beginning if you were good enough. ZG/ZA gear helped you really breach that gap by getting loot only 6 ilvls away. Now your 353 gear could help you get 379 gear. Yes, the gear is a bigger jump from 346 to 359, but you get my point. It was also put into place as a "casuals end-game".

My point is, you are freaking out to CHANGE. CHANGE is what keeps an mmo interesting. They said back in wrath that characters in wrath were TOO. POWERFUL. Get used to some limitations, aight?

[Weightless]

You're math is way off. WAY off. 980 is the VP cap you can obtain WITHOUT raiding. The cap REMAINS at 1250 if you can complete raid content.

Not that I disagree with you, but you're wrong.

" * The maximum number of Valor Points which can be earned in a week from any and all applicable dungeons and raids is now 980, down from 1250."

You cannot get 1250 in a week anymore, come 4.2.

[Gabriel Bear]

Not that I disagree with you, but you're wrong.

" * The maximum number of Valor Points which can be earned in a week from any and all applicable dungeons and raids is now 980, down from 1250."

You cannot get 1250 in a week anymore, come 4.2.

I never saw that in a blue post, but even if it did make it to live id be ok with it. Mind linking me to a blue post so I can burn it into my brain?

[wylatron]

your comments didnt justify zandalari?
so its harder in 4.2?
i faceroll zandalari boss solo (all soloable bosses)
in 4.2 im going to get ultimate overgeared
double faceroll zandala until i can solo even jindo?

So go to firelands and quit beefing over something that was last patch?