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  1. #1

    Dragonwrath, Tarecgosa's Rest Quest Chain

    I was looking through the legendary staff quest chain for the hundredth time earlier yesterday and noticed the hotfix of the Eternal Embers being bind on pickup. This confused me mainly because I remembered that another part of the chain was the gathering of the Seething Cinders. Since I have found nothing about Eternal Embers dropping off of trash, and have only seen them drop off of bosses, after doing around 15 trash runs a day since release. This leads me to believe that Eternal Embers only drop off of bosses, along with Seething Cinders, since I remember reading that Seething Cinders only drop off of bosses. If this is true, this means that the legendary staff quest chain has two collection quests that will take large amounts of time, since if you were a hard core guild, and cleared 7/7 every week, you would need to clear it all for 4 weeks to finish the Eternal Embers quest. Unfortunately for me I'm stuck in a situation where I will more than likely kill around 3/7 this week, which causes a huge increase of needed time. Along with Seething Cinders, which if they are like Shadowfrost Shards for Shadowmourne, will not be a guaranteed drop off of bosses like Eternal Embers seem to be. I've never heard of a legendary requiring 2 collection quests, with an instance that only holds only 7 bosses, does this make sense to anyone else or am I just thinking awkwardly?

  2. #2
    Well I agree with you (Note im a pallidain so if i get something wrong on this correct me.) It does seem unfair to have 7 bosses with a 25 regerment for a legendary item with not a100% drop rate it mite not even be 50% like frost shards.But i agree with you ya.

  3. #3
    The Patient tehhuntard's Avatar
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    Legendaries are for the most hard core players in the game. Of course it's gonna take you a while.

  4. #4
    Brewmaster Malefic's Avatar
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    The legendary quest chain is stupid and hugely favours 25man currently. The drop rate for an Eternal Ember on 25man is 100-300% per boss, meaning they will recieve 1-3 Eternal Embers per boss, 21 maximum in one week. A 25man guild can have the Eternal Ember part of the quest done in 9 bosses.

    10man guilds have a less than 100% drop chance for Eternal Embers, we cleared everything on the first day and I only got 6 Eternal Embers.

    It's going to take me 3 more weeks minimum to get the first part of the quest done (But based on the rate I got them this week, it'll be another 4 weeks).
    Last edited by Malefic; 2011-07-01 at 05:46 AM.

  5. #5
    Blizzard has an idea in mind for how long it will take you to get the staff.

    It will take longer for everyone for the FIRST staff because:

    - Not everyone will start off killing 7 bosses weekly
    - Not everyone will be doing Heroics right away (which apparently have a higher %)

    The first Dragonwrath will take the longest to get. But thats in big part because of the above two points. Once everyone is doing 7/7 weekly, with heroics, the second/third staff will be coming in faster.

    You sound like your complaining about being 'behind' because you will only kill 3 bosses this week. That's silly. Did you expect to be getting the max weekly possible amount of Cinders already, as if you were full clearing and doing heroics? Only the top guilds will be able to achieve that. Everyone else will - in time - it will just take longer.
    Last edited by TyrianFC; 2011-07-01 at 05:47 AM.

  6. #6
    Epic! Valanna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malefic View Post
    The legendary quest chain is stupid and hugely favours 25man currently. The drop rate for an Eternal Ember on 25man is 100-300% per boss, meaning they will recieve 1-3 Eternal Embers per boss, 21 maximum in one week. A 25man guild can have the Eternal Ember part of the quest done in 9 bosses.

    10man guilds have a less than 100% drop chance for Eternal Embers, we cleared everything on the first day and I only got 9 Eternal Embers.

    It's going to take me 3 more weeks minimum to get the first part of the quest done (But based on the rate I got them this week, it'll be another 4 weeks).
    Read blue posts before spreading misinformation, will ya? They confirmed the drop rate on BOTH Embers and Cinders to be somewhere between 2-2.5 times higher on 25 man. If you think that favors 25 man your math is kinda weird.
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  7. #7
    It was originally going to be a BoE saronite-esque set of embers, followed by the seething embers much like Shadowmourne, but Blizzard decided they didn't want to go the route of making the BoE things for patterns also required for a legendary so they just became a BoP boss drop. The end result looks silly and redundant, but if you see how they arrived there it makes a lot of sense.

  8. #8
    Brewmaster Malefic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valanna View Post
    Read blue posts before spreading misinformation, will ya? They confirmed the drop rate on BOTH Embers and Cinders to be somewhere between 2-2.5 times higher on 25 man. If you think that favors 25 man your math is kinda weird.
    How am I spreading misinformation on the basis that I (The master looter, raid leader, Officer and reciever of my guilds first Legendary) recieved a less than 100% drop chance of the Eternal Embers and other guilds that I have discussed with recieved a 100-300% drop rate, obtaining 1-3 per boss kill on 25man. There is nothing wrong with my math, I was stating its a flawwed system to have one raid size obtaining the item at a quicker rate.

    I initially put I obtained 9 Eternal Embers, that was a typo. I meant 6.
    Last edited by Malefic; 2011-07-01 at 05:48 AM.

  9. #9
    If 10 mans obtained it at an equal rate, no one with an interest in getting a staff would be raiding 25 man. Why do 25 if you can break into smaller groups and get multiple people the same exact drops in several groups?

  10. #10
    Yes, Eternal Embers only drop from bosses. They appear to be a guaranteed 1-3 per boss on 25man, and 0-1 per boss on 10man. So worst case scenario (for 25mans) is it will take 4 weeks to complete the first collection quest. Currently (on WoWHead at least) the quest for Seething Cinders requires you to get 1000 of them. According to Blizzards armory database, Seething Cinders stack to 250, and are a guaranteed drop from all bosses. So, most likely each boss will drop ~40 cinders which would take ~6 weeks. That's just an estimated guess on my part how things will work out (and I'd imagine things would be slightly longer for 10man). Then after that is the quest to get 250 smouldering essences. I'd -imagine- that any trash in Firelands will count towards that, but I don't think anyone knows for sure so I don't know how long that would take.

    Overall, I'd estimate about 3 months to complete the legendary, though I'd be thrilled it if went faster than that.
    Last edited by Rubine; 2011-07-01 at 05:51 AM.

  11. #11
    Epic! Valanna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malefic View Post
    How am I spreading misinformation on the basis that I (The master looter, raid leader, Officer and reciever of my guilds first Legendary) recieved a less than 100% drop chance of the Eternal Embers and other guilds that I have discussed with recieved a 100-300% drop rate, obtaining 1-3 per boss kill. There is nothing wrong with my math, I was stating its a flawwed system to have one raid size obtaining the item at a quicker rate.
    100%-300% is vague. You're wrong in the sense that you said it hugely favors 25 mans. It doesn't, blue confirmed it. Yes, 10 man drop rate is < 100%, 20 man drop rate is 100% < rate < 300%. We've known that since launch day. Had the drop chance been equal, there would be no incentive to do 25 mans at all.
    Last edited by Valanna; 2011-07-01 at 05:55 AM.
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  12. #12
    Brewmaster Malefic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Penguin FTW View Post
    If 10 mans obtained it at an equal rate, no one with an interest in getting a staff would be raiding 25 man. Why do 25 if you can break into smaller groups and get multiple people the same exact drops in several groups?
    It's still a flawed system all together then. The design behind Cataclysm offering equal loot and shared lock-outs between 10s and 25s was supposed to make it about personal preference between the two raid sizes, yet Blizzard seemed to have given 25man an advantage several times now.

  13. #13
    If Blizzard absolutely has to choose 25 or 10, they are going to favor 25 every time. There's no way to make it equal for both raid sizes without fucking over one or the other at least a little.

  14. #14
    Brewmaster Malefic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valanna View Post
    100%-300% is vague. You're wrong in the sense that you said it hugely favors 25 mans. It doesn't, blue confirmed it. Yes, 10 man drop rate is > 100%, 20 man drop rate is 100% > rate > 300%. We've known that since launch day. Had the drop chance been equal, there would be no incentive to do 25 mans at all.
    How is 100-300% drop rate vague? It drops either 1, 2 or 3 of the Eternal Embers. I'm also guessing you meant 10man is <100%, since it's definitely not >100%.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malefic View Post
    How is 100-300% drop rate vague? It drops either 1, 2 or 3 of the Eternal Embers. I'm also guessing you meant 10man is <100%, since it's definitely not >100%.
    Yes, my (<, >) signs are all reverse. Excuse my tiredness, I'll edit it right away.

    It's vague in the sense that if it was 100% drop rate, it would hugely favor 10 man. If it was 300% drop rate, it would hugely favor 25 man. Thus, your whole post is possibly a contradiction.
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    Brewmaster Malefic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Penguin FTW View Post
    If Blizzard absolutely has to choose 25 or 10, they are going to favor 25 every time. There's no way to make it equal for both raid sizes without fucking over one or the other at least a little.
    A little is maybe making 10s initially harder to not destroy the concept behind WoW that is ' 25s or GTFO '.

    10s have been screwed over horrendously this expansion.

    Several bosses being 99.99% impossible unless absolutely cheesing the shit out of the encounter on 10man.
    10man Tier Tokens not initially having a 100% drop chance on Heroic (Our first Halfus kill didn't give us a Chest Token)
    25man guilds recieving 3,000 gold from a heroic boss kill, 10mans recieving 250 (wgaf about gold, but it's still the concept)
    This shit with the legendary currently also.

    It's flawed and it's horrendous, Cataclysms initial approach to raiding was going to be " We know you enjoy 10s, we know you enjoy 25s, here, they're equal now, do which you prefer " but that has quickly dwindled down hill after the army of " LOL 10 MANS WHO CARES ITS ALL 25'S BRO "

    ---------- Post added 2011-07-01 at 06:58 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Valanna View Post
    Yes, my (<, >) signs are all reverse. Excuse my tiredness, I'll edit it right away.

    It's vague in the sense that if it was 100% drop rate, it would hugely favor 10 man. If it was 300% drop rate, it would hugely favor 25 man. Thus, your whole post is possibly a contradiction.
    Let's use averages then, on an average given a median the 25man drop rate is 200%, on 10man, it's less than 100%, on the extremely small sample size that is the 7 bosses I killed this week it has a drop percentage of 85.71%

    It's not the drop chance that's annoyed me, it's the fact that on average it's going to take a 10man raider 4-5 weeks to complete the first major step of the legendary, it's going to take a 25man guild 9 bosses.
    Last edited by Malefic; 2011-07-01 at 06:01 AM.

  17. #17
    I was just speaking specifically to the legendary


  18. #18
    Epic! Valanna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malefic View Post
    A little is maybe making 10s initially harder to not destroy the concept behind WoW that is ' 25s or GTFO '.

    10s have been screwed over horrendously this expansion.

    Several bosses being 99.99% impossible unless absolutely cheesing the shit out of the encounter on 10man.
    10man Tier Tokens not initially having a 100% drop chance on Heroic (Our first Halfus kill didn't give us a Chest Token)
    25man guilds recieving 3,000 gold from a heroic boss kill, 10mans recieving 250 (wgaf about gold, but it's still the concept)
    This shit with the legendary currently also.

    It's flawed and it's horrendous, Cataclysms initial approach to raiding was going to be " We know you enjoy 10s, we know you enjoy 25s, here, they're equal now, do which you prefer " but that has quickly dwindled down hill after the army of " LOL 10 MANS WHO CARES ITS ALL 25'S BRO "
    T11 was horrible for 10 mans, yes. We're over that now, finally. I did both on PTR and I found 10 man to be a bit easier, both on normal on heroic. So unless something got changed I won't say the same is true for T12. And you still have no proof for T12, only some very brief data which doesn't in no way support your standpoint. There is however, a BLUE confirmation on that you're straight out wrong.
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  19. #19
    It's a terrible system. Fuck the embers, those will come eventually. What I'm concerned about is the cinders. If they have a low-ish drop rate in 25, and an even lower drop rate in 10, then how in the sweet fuck is a 10 man guild supposed to get 25 of them?

  20. #20
    Epic! Valanna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shmeh View Post
    It's a terrible system. Fuck the embers, those will come eventually. What I'm concerned about is the cinders. If they have a low-ish drop rate in 25, and an even lower drop rate in 10, then how in the sweet fuck is a 10 man guild supposed to get 25 of them?
    1000. Got changed for live.
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