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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by kinneer View Post
    People can sell their items for whatever price they like, for whatever the reasons. Why do so many people complain when others are willing to sell at a cheaper price?
    Because it kills our profit?

    Example: I'm selling 100g gems on the AH. Someone posts 20 for 70g. In this situation, I would still undercut by 1 copper, but I would be making 30 gold less per gem I sell. If a gem costs 40 gold to make, that's half the profit I'd make without the stupid undercut the previous person made.

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    Because it kills our profit?

    Example: I'm selling 100g gems on the AH. Someone posts 20 for 70g. In this situation, I would still undercut by 1 copper, but I would be making 30 gold less per gem I sell. If a gem costs 40 gold to make, that's half the profit I'd make without the stupid undercut the previous person made.
    But the item belongs to the guy doing the "undercutting", if he is happy with the profit he makes why should he be worried about the profit you make.
    And that doesn't mean I am trying to screw you or even thinking about you at all... There might be some trink I want on the AH, I know I have a few stacks of Gems in my bank I have been sitting on for a rainy day, so I go cut em up and sell as many for whatever price I need to buy my Trinket. I'm not a gold collector, I am not trying to get to some limit, I want to make the money I need to buy what I want, they are my items I should sell them for what I want.

  3. #243
    People have gotta make their money somehow but undercutting by stupid amounts really gets on my nerves...

  4. #244
    Again with "undercutting"...

    Who says you set the price, it's not your AH, It's my stuff, I'll sell it for what I want. Why do you think you set the price?

  5. #245
    this could all be fixed if blizzard implemented a 20% minimum price adjustment... like... if you post your items for cheaper.. it must be atleast 20% cheaper than the current lowest price...
    who the fuck wrapped my dick in bacon?

  6. #246
    Undercutting by more than a copper is stupid - when it's a mass item that will sell anyway. With "mass item" I mean stuff like herbs, ores, gems, enchanting mats. Stuff that everyone need every time. There is no need to undercut massive amounts if the item will sell anyway, you are just cheating yourself and others out of potential profit.

    Rare and expensive items are a whole other thing. Stuff like the current BoE-epics, rare pets and mounts will take their time to sell. If you don't offer your customer something with the price, chances are that they are pissed and will buy the more expensive item, when it's a miniscule amount of money (< 1g). So if there are three, say, BoE spellpower daggers for about 35k each there is no problem offering 32k. It's 3k gold, but you give the buyer a real incentive to buy your item.

    Another thing are overpriced items. Take Enchant Weapon: Power Torrent for example. Power Torrent contains 4 crystals, 8 shards and 14 dust. On my server, crystals cost about 100g, shards about 50g and dust about 3g, so the whole enchantment would cost 842 gold if you buy all the mats from the auction house. If I see someone selling a scroll on the auction house for 1999g, I WILL undercut them, quite massively. They are taking more than 100% profit, there is no chance in hell that enough people will buy this scroll to make the money / time quotient reasonable. Almost all the people with half a brain would rather buy the mats and pay an enchanter from /2 a couple of gold pieces instead of buying that scroll. So, yes. If I wanted to sell a scroll of Power Torrent, I would undercut, to increase the sell rate.

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Idoru View Post
    Once again you are projecting your own reasons for playing this game onto others.
    So let me say this again: I don't care about maximizing my virtual gold stash. No matter what you say, I don't care. Period.
    Idoru, your logic and reasoning is retarded. If you actually believed what you're saying "i dont care to maximize my profits" then you shouldnt be wasting valuable electrons posting your crap on the AH; vendor it for pennies on the dollar. But, you wont... know why? cause you want to maximize your gold intake as much as you can from someone browsing the virtual market.

    Some of us choose not to do dailies to make our money. With the right combo of professions and the ability to use them correctly, its easy to make 10-20k+ a day in gold. Hell, my personal best was over 100k in one day from selling glyphs, gems, mats etc.

    Im sure there are tons of us that DO play the AH and who actually do know how the economy works that would love it if you just posted your crap on the AH for vendor pricing and moved on. It helps out our inventory levels and you get to make your non-maximized profit; winning duh.

  8. #248
    Sorry boniggy, but that doesn't follow. Just because he doesn't want to maximize his profits doesn't mean he doesn't care about money at all. He knows he can get more money for the product on the AH with minimal effort, he just doesn't care to research the price or to wait as long for it to sell.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Babaganouch View Post
    When ever I post an auction I undercut with a copper.
    I do hate when I have about 20+ auctions up and some random pastes his auctions for 10g less.
    You hate it when they undercut you by that much... but you undercut people by a copper? What is this, I don't even...

  10. #250
    incoming huge wall of awesomeness.

    greed is the underlying factor contributing to undercutting. it sounds counter-intuitive, but it's true.

    this isn't the type of greed that you want more... it's the type of greed that you want gold for whatever purpose. maybe to buy a new mount, maybe to cover raiding costs (flasks, food, wipes, etc), maybe whatever.

    also, you have to take into account that people are dumb. not all but most people are plain and simply... dumb. they don't know how to maximize profit and/or how the economy works.
    but why should they maximize profits? they don't care about maximizing, only getting what they think is a decent amount of gold. I know wow =/= real life, but this is just an example: you're having a yard sale and you manage to sell all your items for let's say $500. but later your friend tells you they were actually worth $1000. now you're going "aw man, I could have made more money."

    • why should I care? I make enough gold to cover whatever it is I do!
      too bad for you really; you're always going to be having to sell items to make more gold because you're not gaining X amount of gold you could have by selling items for a slightly (higher) price.
    • X amount of gold sounds decent to me; I don't need this item to sell for Y amount anyways!
      same principle as above.
    • I undercut somewhat greatly (ie 70g vs average 100g for a gem) because I want to sell my items.
      good for you, you're only encouraging more undercutting. next time you want to sell the item, it will probably sell for even less.
    • the item being sold is too expensive, I'll sell it for a fair price.
      you probably have no idea what the item regularly sells for and are probably making someone's day by selling it super cheap. but hey if that's what you like, go for it.
      also, if it's the case that you know someone's making a high profit, you still fail to realize that some other people don't know prices and/or don't want to waste the time buying the mats/looking for someone with that profession to craft the item (if it's an enchant or gear or whatever). for example: I'm rich enough (in the hundreds of thousands of gold) to the point I don't care about paying 200g more for a onetime enchant on a bis piece of gear, especially since I'm making maybe 20x that amount of gold per day.
    there's definitely more unintelligent reasons for undercutting and plenty of varying intelligent answers to them, but it's 4 AM, and I'm too tired to type out more.

    this also relates to a news special done a few years ago if I remember correctly by abc news.
    a certain amount of people were placed at a circular table with a glass bowl in the middle of it. this glass bowl was going to have money dropped into it periodically by the reporter. any person was allowed to grab the money at any time he or she wanted.
    of course you could guess what happened... each time, the reporter never got past $6 before someone reached out to grab the money.
    this relates to undercutting in this way: people don't care about others and will most likely seize any chance they get at make a quick buck. I'm not saying it's wrong, but it's the reason most people are poor in wow and in real life.

    on a further note... the new firelands trash BOEs on my server have just been steadily going down in price not because there's a demand for them (there is but it's irrelevant for the point I'm making) but because people want to sell them asap and are undercutting and reposting them when they themselves get undercut. I watched over the course of two hours tonight as the BOE staff went from 35k to 27k. no one had bought a single one yet the sellers kept undercutting and undercutting each other.

    tl;dr: greed motivates people to take the short route. undercutting in small amounts is to be expected, but the people that undercut by more than 1% (give or take varying on prices) just don't know what they're doing.

  11. #251
    I agree with everything you said Mooshi, but consider how time relates to price. Let's say I buy a commodity at .5(X) where X is the current average price on the market. Let's also say that I suspect the average price will drop to less than or equal to .5(X) within the next few days (maybe a patch is dropping).

    I could try and sell my item at X to get a 50% return on my investment, but I'm worried about this patch and I don't want to break even or lose money. So I instead sell my item at .9(X) in order to incentivize buyers towards my product and away from my competition. I'm potentially losing .1(X) but I'm increasing the odds of selling the item quickly and gaining .4(X).

    All prices are volatile to some extent and any investment carries with it some amount of risk. Undercutting can offset that risk in exchange for a smaller return.

  12. #252
    yeah, I wasn't really including time in my 'rant.' it'd be kinda hard to explain, but you did it quite nicely.

    a good example of your statement would be patch 4.2; prices of 359 ilvl BOEs plummeted with 4.2 due to new 365 and 378 ilvl gear.
    furthermore, with more and more people getting new BOEs over time, due to just farming or running firelands, prices go down, and yes, undercutting for .9(x) would definitely be smart in most scenarios.

    however, it is amusing to see severe undercutting for an item that will sell even at a high price. for example, the obsidian cleaver (currently bis for frost dks and smf fury warriors if I'm not mistaken) on my server is currently at 40k as 100% price. however, I've seen it drop to 30k over the course of two days simply because the 3 sellers selling it kept undercutting each other. finally, after people bought them at a reasonably cheap price, someone else posted one at 43k... and it sold.

  13. #253
    Field Marshal
    Join Date
    May 2010
    On an Island in the North Atlantic
    Quote Originally Posted by xenaros View Post
    Personally when buying items I will scroll past the 1c undercutters and buy from someone who has posted a round number.
    This is exactly what I do also. When i do undercut someone on AH I never do so by 1c unless that person has undercut me by 1c. Normally (depending on the value of the good in question) I will always undercut by whole numbers.

  14. #254
    Yeah, and it's all further complicated by the time-scales and number of people involved. A realm economy is pretty small as far as economies go and the 'terrain' changes so rapidly that prices on certain items don't have much of a chance to normalize.

    It seems like expensive items like BoE purples vary the most in their price while materials like volatiles and ore normalize much more easily because of the volume of units being traded. Thousands and thousands of elementium ore pass through the auction house in any given week, and so there is a lot of healthy competition and the laws of supply and demand have a reasonable chance to work themselves out. On the other hand there may be only a single Vial of Sands (an item with both low supply and low demand) on the auction house in the same week so that person is pretty much free to set their own price; the bounds are much more vague.

    I could wax intellectual about the AH all day, but I suppose the conclusion I would draw from this thread is that one really shouldn't worry that much about undercutting. It's a fact of any economy. It will always happen, for one reason or another, so when you're formulating your strategy you had best factor it in.

    Buy for a dollar, sell for two. It's all in the game right?

  15. #255
    Brewmaster xindykawai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Lost in the twisting nether
    some undercut a lot on my server... like a stack of twilight jasmine, i put them at 50g... 3 min later i got undercut to....30g... !!! if they put it a 50g too, they can sell them and not screw up AH price some undercut are ridiculous...
    so, i buy them and sell it to my price, it keep a balance xD! lol

    like i did craft a waist, i put it for 1.6k... and got undercut at 750g....
    Last edited by xindykawai; 2011-07-20 at 06:01 PM.

  16. #256
    The only way to stop it is to become gold capped then control any market you want. Any under cutters that pull their bullshit, You can buy them out and always raise the price by 500g or so. Undercuts again buy them out and repeat.

    It's the only way I found that works. Don't let anyone in and you can do whatever you want. Anyone who prices shit after you is fine but under cutters will be stopped.

    I am The Scourge - Play Free Online Games

  17. #257
    How, exactly, is that going to stop undercutting? If anything you're encouraging them. You're giving them business.

  18. #258
    Blademaster Ark del KAOS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Madrid, Spain
    1h wait for retrieve the cancelled items.
    That would ease the undercutting rush. I'm doing it, and I'm not ashamed....but It's not fair for the "normal people".
    Ok, with the 1h there'll be undercutting (it's easy to find other ways), but not so aggressively.

  19. #259
    Well you can't expect people not to undercut, thats just the way it is.
    I dont mind tho

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Stringer View Post
    How, exactly, is that going to stop undercutting? If anything you're encouraging them. You're giving them business.

    Giving them business yes, then making a huge profit of 300+ after the fact. This does work. I did it all through Wrath. Controlled the Gem market for almost a year. Never really stops but you control the prices. Don't be a rock. This works.

    I am The Scourge - Play Free Online Games

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