Combat vs Rhyolith

[Ashvael]

If you just want to turn the boss, then yes, it would be like only dealing 5k damage to the left leg. However, you also need to get the boss to 25% as fast as possible and suddenly you deal 15k damage instead of 10k.

[Vuji]

Ok, I'll amend my statement. I don't have a point, I was providing information of a experience that I had that people can look at to their own end.

Happy?

[Roonic]

Normal it might not matter, but having the extra damage to push him to phase 2 quickly as possible before superheated starts to stack is extremely beneficial.

Every little bit of damage counts. We had 2 combat rogues on our kill, and it was still driving just fine with 100% uptime on BF nearly. It's extra extra beneficial soon as he drops to 0% armor and you lust to burn him into phase 2. If you for some reason are having quite a large difficulty with the Obsidium Slimes as well as extra fragments on heroic, and happen to have 3 rogues, 1 of the rogues should be assassination with a point in deadly brew, to help chop the adds down. But. A demo lock would be much better for that.

Anyways, combat's a clear winner in heroic rhyolith.


Edit: For those that don't know, super heated is bugged. It's not supposed to gain 2 stacks every tick unless that's a last minute fix that was intended. Which makes it even more crucial to burn him to 25% fast as possibly hopefully by 4:30 or 4:45 into the fight. You get up to 10+ stacks of superheated in phase 2, you better hope he's at -5%, cause the next stomp is going to gib your whole raid.

[pentagramwookie]

Every little bit of damage counts. We had 2 combat rogues on our kill, and it was still driving just fine with 100% uptime on BF nearly. It's extra extra beneficial soon as he drops to 0% armor and you lust to burn him into phase 2. If you for some reason are having quite a large difficulty with the Obsidium Slimes as well as extra fragments on heroic, and happen to have 3 rogues, 1 of the rogues should be assassination with a point in deadly brew, to help chop the adds down. But. A demo lock would be much better for that.

When I look the record kills for heroic 25 man in World of Logs blade flurry accounts for anywhere from 55% to at least 5% for combat rogues. Even though everyone else on this thread seems to disagree, (and my guild leader >.<) it seems like almost all rogues go combat with blade flurry up at least some of the time heroic rhyo kills, so this actually checks out.

[Sesshou]

OMFG some people are dense. The point of using BF IS NOT TO HELP WITH THE DAMN TURNING. No it doesn't help turning, and if thats actually wiping you and you are on heroic rhy you have more problems than BF with your raid. And if you are wiping on normal rhy post nerf and its not a pug (well even then really) you have more problems than a rogue or 2 using bf on both legs.

You cleave both legs for extra damage. You also can cleave off of one leg and hit the adds should you actually need to make a hard turn. Turning is basically irrelevant... wtf is the rest of your raid doing... you aren't going to push him alone so obviously they are hitting legs too... and omfg that turns him also.

[Coldkil]

If you raid isn't clueless, BF won't make any damage to turning. I do it every time, and never had trouble with it. Sure you need to pay more attention with turning, but it's not a big deal.

[Sesshou]

I still don't get it. Doing 10k on the left leg and 5k on the right is the same as doing only 5k on the left leg. Blade Flurry doesn't help in any way that I can see.

You know except for that 15k and 5k are not equivalent damage numbers and you actually do need to kill the boss at some point or might as well just steer him into the lava.

[Dizzarai]

I have to agree that combat is a clear winner on Ryolith, particularly on Heroic. I raid 10man and bf is helpful to straighten him out and to push him to P2 faster. Additionally, we've found, once you're really geared up, that it's very easy to over turn him. Having bf up helps to soften his turns and actually gives you more control.

[Deleted]

We were doing few attempts with Rhyolith yesterday(all wipes at around 80%). And what I have noted is that there is no advantage in using blade flurry. I thought that it will hit both legs and I should be on top. However, my dps was pretty low - lower then another muti rogue was doing. What is wrong with this fight? Blade flurry is not working?

Maybe focus on helping killing the boss instead of just playing ego trying to get to the top of recount?

[akteliae]

Maybe focus on helping killing the boss instead of just playing ego trying to get to the top of recount?

Blade Flurry does help to kill the boss.

[Ludovik]

Maybe focus on helping killing the boss instead of just playing ego trying to get to the top of recount?

It has nothing to do with ego, any good dps worth their salt wants to do as much damage as possible (in heroic where enrage timers are much less forgiving, at least pre-nerf). A rogue with BF is helping the raid beat the enrage timer by doing their damage to both legs. This is not padding the recount meter, it's actually doing something useful.

In a completely equal raid setup, the one with the rogue using BF, heroic Rhyolith WILL GO DOWN SOONER. It's as simple as that.

edit: Maybe some people are forgetting the basics? Rhyolith has two legs that SHARE their HP pool. If you can do the same damage to both legs that you can do to one, you are literally doing double the damage. If you can't see why that is important on this fight, then there is no hope for you.

[Sesshou]

Maybe focus on helping killing the boss instead of just playing ego trying to get to the top of recount?

Hmm so hitting the boss is bad because it automatically makes it an ego/recount thing... how the hell do you ever kill any bosses? Is it actually possible to just heal your tank until the boss gives up and drops loot and I'm a fool for not realizing this...

[Bassnectar]

I only pop blade flurry when we are making him go straight or during the end burn phase on heroic.

[Sesshou]

I only pop blade flurry when we are making him go straight or during the end burn phase on heroic.

Why? Theres plenty of other things you can help BF even if you did want to assist in the turning by not BF'ing the other leg.

[Deleted]

On-demand DPS is much more important in this fight than overall DPS, as you will need to do hard turns and last minute corrections. Hitting volcanos quickly is the number one determinant of DPS output.

I've been going sub for the last couple of heroics kills. As with many fights in Firelands, improved Feint and Recuperate makes a big difference.

[Deleted]

bf also has the advantage that instead of hiting the other leg if you position yourself correctly your cleave will hit a slime instead of the other leg which has 2 advantages -> if slime is that close it needs to die before it ups his armour -> your damg goes up as no damg reduction applied from other leg's armour.

for combat if one slime in cleave range hit the slime and cleave to rhylith for more dps re-direct 5pc evis with no real inturuption to damg done to leg as long as in cleave range.

[Taiina]

In 10 man HC I've got BF running 95% of the time in phase 1 (Obviously not in P2) because of the extra damage. Unless I've called for a hard turn, I try not to turn it off and depending which foot I'm on, I will stand on the outside edge of that foot so that BF is hitting Obsidians. If none are about, I will hug the middle so it's on both feet. Doing this ranked me 5th (now 9th) on WoL for 10m HC Rhyo. This was also our quickest kill. Too coincidental.

Also to whoever said that we need to focus on killing the boss instead of topping recount... That is a typical non dps outlook on being a dps spec.
If we weren't competitive on doing dps and just hit random buttons without constantly tweaking and improving timing/rotation then the bosses would be alive for longer. The problem comes from the minority of people who tunnel vision their rotations and don't pay attention to fight mechanics. However, those who are capable of ranking on WoL and topping DPS meters are 9 times out of 10 always paying attention to the mechanics anyway. I know I am. So, this poses the question... why does it matter if we enjoy being comptetitive and try to rank against other members of our class?
The ONLY time I will agree with what you said is if someone focusing purely on dps is wiping the raid or failing on mechanics.

[Sesshou]

On-demand DPS is much more important in this fight than overall DPS, as you will need to do hard turns and last minute corrections. Hitting volcanos quickly is the number one determinant of DPS output.

I've been going sub for the last couple of heroics kills. As with many fights in Firelands, improved Feint and Recuperate makes a big difference.

I see what you are saying about on demand burst, but honestly if your raid has any problems whatsoever with turning him quick enough just because a rogue is combat, you have no place in heroic firelands. By all means play whatever, I'm just saying if your shadow dance burst is actually necessary for your raid to turn him properly, the rest of your dps suck.

[Youvegotfail]

you dont wanna be dmging both legs at the same time mate, dat's like UH dk's spreading diseases to "get more dmg"... it ruins the steering of the boss for your recount e-peeen

Im pretty sure DOTs don't affect steering...and even if they did, it's not enough to matter...I've been spreading diseases since day one on Rhyo. Hell, in heroic mode we have 4 melee on legs (always a melee heavy group) and two of them just stay on the same leg the whole time (one person for each leg, of course) and only switch during hard turns...the rest of the time me and one other melee steer.

and "recount e-peeen" as you put it (i.e. doing as much dmg as possible) is important on heroic mode where you're racing Superheated...

[RemJay24]

I play as combat and use BF on this fight all the times. I'm actually the melee assigned to calling out steering. I pop BF off and on whenever necessary. You do crap dmg at first, but slowly racks up towards the end of the fight. BF hitting a slime does quite well too.