Texas Mom givin 5 years probation for Spanking her Daughter

[Dracono]

Oh WTH, I was spanked when I was little.
Seriously it is just discipline for your children, or else they become snobs when they are older...

[Drick]

I'd rather have a kid with neither.

me too. me too.
I'm just saying if it's a choice between the two, I'd rather have the lesser of two evils.

[Deleted]

Spanking a 2 year old baby... Really? What exactly was she doing that warranted a spanking? I mean really, it's not like it's a 6 year old child who stole something, or an 8 year old who disobeys his parents. If you want to spank your 6 year old or 8 year old as a means of discipline then fine. At that age you can actually TEACH them that what they're doing is wrong. At 2 years old how does spanking help?

It's not about discipline of the baby, it's the discipline of the mother you should be looking at. Why is she spanking a 2 year old? Was there a very good reason for it or is it just because she has an anger issue? Someone with an anger issue shouldn't be taking care of children unless they can get help.

The comments of that article were very lolzworthy. "crime is up, drugs is up". What? The previous generation were far worse than this one in regards to drugs and crime. Apparantly the typical audience of that website is parents who are trying to cover up their own shortcomings by blaming governments, kids and whoever else they can.

[Jagscorpion]

This type of conversation tends to bring out polar opposite viewpoints.

I have met healthy, well-adjusted people who have been spanked as a child as well as those who have not.
There is a good chance that neither those who believe that all spanking is equivalent to child abuse nor those who believe it is almost criminal NOT to spank will change their minds.

What IS worrisome however, is that a judge saw fit to criminalize the most harmless form of spanking there can be (no bruises etc...) and transfer custody to a different person. Am I the only person that sees this action as far more traumatic than light spankings? It concerns me where an action like this might lead in terms of trends.

[xile]

I'd rather have a child with a couple tears and a welt, than an egotistical, entitled, spoiled little brat on teen mom or cops. I enjoy my house and car in tact, and I would enjoy not raising my child's kids.

Just to point this out. The lack of spanking your child does not result in them having kids at the age of 16. That's just most likely an utter lack of parenting altogether (assuming they're actually those kids who appear on teen mom).

[frott]

The way you keep talking about children like an animal to be trained is kind of unfortunate. At least from a Pro-Spanking perspective I can see that children are human beings who need to be taught that certain behaviors aren't acceptable and that their are immediate negative repercussions to their actions. Trust me, I grew up in a home that tried a lot of 'non-abusive' punishments as you all seem to enjoy putting it as. When they put me in time out, surprise surprise, I walked away. They wouldn't lay a hand on me. They took my toys? I went and got them anyhow so they had the option of either guarding it (essentially screwing up whatever they were doing) or just giving up. I wish my parents had had a bit more of a spine because otherwise I wouldn't have been the spoiled little prick that I was. I didn't need to be 'trained' but I needed to be stopped more often then not.

Wait, what?

Training and teaching are synonyms, yet you somehow think that hitting a kid is less like training an animal than what I was claiming?


What you're stating is bullshit anyway:

"Pro-Spanking perspective I can see that children are human beings who need to be taught that certain behaviors aren't acceptable and that their are immediate negative repercussions to their actions."

The only teaching here is that if they do something you don't like you're going to hit them.

What I'm claiming basically destroys your scenario in that I'd TEACH them that what they're doing has lasting LONG TERM IMPLICATIONS.
Yes, you're immediately annoying mommy. Mommy can immediately punch you in the face to make you stop.
Or, mommy can annoy you for an infinite amount longer and more effectively.


Putting you in time out? That's a strawman. Who said that would ever work? Someone who can go into time out has already been trained to respond to their parents' will.

Taking your toys? Again, why would I bother with that? Another strawman, as obviously the only effective punishment would be, you know, effective and require less.


You also claim "screwing up whatever they were doing." Sorry to say, but that sounds like an attention or prioritization issue. I don't want to personalize it, but you're touching on issues of how much attention is the right amount of attention and that rabbit hole is a bit of a tangent.


In the end, it sounds like you ended up being raised non-abusively. And you being a spoiled little prick is better than the other result.

You tell me, if they would have spanked you would it REALLY have mattered? You sound like you'd find a way to fuck that up, or that if it would happen it wouldn't exactly be effective.

I see nothing wrong with some stupid punishment of "you can't have toys because i don't like what you did" not working, same as "stand in the corner" or whatever.

Obviously every second of your life can't be a classroom to devote to your kids' learning values and morals, but holy shit at least come up with punishments that would at least potentially effect the kid. That's why this retarded woman is getting the law dropped on her, spanking a 2 year old is (as it was said before) like hitting a computer. ZERO EFFECT.



I just prefer to always make the kid think or figure out what's going on to immediate responses that are visceral

[the1skate]

Do what I say or you get spanked

is worse than

Do what I say because what I say is smart and you basically grow up to be a ridiculous shell of a human being, shunned by society and lacking in any sort of love, happiness or power. You might not see it now, but if you trust me as your provider and caretaker I will show you a path to luxury and richness of life filled with marvels and conquests. I will never harm you, I will never seek to control you to be an image of myself, I grant you freedom and independence which you will one day be able to wield to pursue control over your own existing.



Now, which one will someone young and irrational grasp immediately? Which do you want them to grasp?

Bottomline is #1 doesn't even get you into the ballpark of #2.

While #2 might bore a child to death it would not do a thing to make them behave. They might go "Huh?" but other than that... Oh I see it now. Your idea is to confuse the child into no longer misbehaving. GOOD IDEA!

[Max Rebo]

Yes because hitting is the only way to discipline your child, it is also the best.

That's not what people here are saying, not even remotely. Do you (or does anyone else) really believe that because someone favors spanking when necessary, that the same person uses that method of discipline every time the child misbehaves? It's convenient to assume that, I guess.

Someone else mentioned a couple pages back that spanking was a "last resort" method. If all the normal methods (which usually are successful) fail, then use the last resort. In this context, it's not barbaric, it's not abusive, and it doesn't make the parent an advocate of violence. If done sparingly, it can effect the desired outcome and the child will be no worse for wear.

[Downtown]

You can make a child under the age of 5 think or figure out things that are valid to the situation? WOW your children are going to be the next einstiens..

Edit: that was towards Frott

[Max Rebo]

I think your the only other person that picked up on this. It is not that she spanked a child, there are times you need to. Its the fact the child was TWO. You don't spank a two year old.

There are plenty of folks who picked up on the fact that per the OP, the child was two years old.

The debate has gone beyond that and is much more interesting now.

[Felicia]

Every time I did something wrong when I was younger, I got a swat on the ass. I deserved it, and I turned out fine. I've been spanked several times in my life, and again, I turned out all right. I'll do the same when I have kids, too. I won't have my children acting like inane little maniacs, driving other people insane, and making them miserable.

As my mom used to say, 'I brought you into this world, I'll definitely take you out.' Not the literal sense, but yeah :P She'd put us in our places.

And diaper swatting works on younger children, just a light swat on the ass used to set my younger siblings in place. And so did a time out (1 minute per year. 2 minutes=2 years old.)

[frott]

You can make a child under the age of 5 think or figure out things that are valid to the situation? WOW your children are going to be the next einstiens..

Edit: that was towards Frott

The point was that #1 is obviously worse than #2, but #2 is far less realistic than #1.

There's an inbetween that is neither #1 or #2, so saying #1 is some miracle cure is just defending abuse. Shrug.

[Devori]

Your comparing children to dogs now?? Really and im sure having that chain tighten around the dogs neck has nothing to do with training either? Giving a child a treat as a bribe to do things? Well you would either have a very fat child for the amount you would have to feed them(Even healthy snacks) or you would have a child just say no to the treats and do whatever anyway.
Punishment such as spanking should never be the first resort but a near last one. But like im sure its been said no child has ever or will ever listen 100% of the time and until you have had children of your own, speaking in this topic preaching that its abuse is just absurd

Actually.. no... In cases in dog training where an anxious, barky, highly distractable dog is involved(one many people would employ the use of a leash for and just tug harder like a neanderthal), you want to get the dog to a point where they can be distracted by the master well enough so that their attention isn't focused on whatever distressing element in the outside world would have warranted the "tightening of the leash" or so you say. How is that accomplished? Making the owner a strong enough symbol of reward and positive reaffirmation that you can command the dog's attention at a snap. Using the tightening of the leash itself AS a training method is regressive thinking.

Are you joking? A treat as a bribe? I'm talking about praise for having behaved in a way you deem favorable. Praise is a powerful tool. The fact that you took the dog training analogy literally down to the letter of throwing the kid treats shows what kind of person I'm quoting, I guess. Training with dogs does work the same as kids in many ways, because both respond 100 times better to positive reinforcement than negative punishment.

If you can't handle not striking your kids(or don't have the time and willpower to employ better methods), you probably shouldn't have become a parent, honestly.

[Downtown]

To Frott: Understood, again I'll never condone child abuse. Though as a last resort when all else fails(Even stepping away to count to 10) spanking is not going to be ruled out by me as I will never think its wrong. I try to suggest alternatives, even bribes, but more often then not things will continue to happen until a tap on the padded butt(Diaper worn) happens and then the actions stop.

[Orodoth]

but when the child’s grandmother noticed red marks, she took the child to the hospital.

ok, seriously? Lets think like rational people for a sec here. There was no bruising. ok. There was a red mark. Now then, just how bad can a red mark be, on very soft tissue, but not leave bruising? This is a classic case of mother / daughter squabble ( or even mother-in-law, doesnt specify), taken over the limit. To the hospital? What was this woman expecting to hear? "Oh no ma'am, this is super serious. This childs rear....is BROKE!" I'm sorry, but I simply cannot agree with the grandmother's actions. Thats a bit extreme in my opinion.

At the sentencing hearing, 214th District Court Judge Jose Longoria admonished Gonzales that spanking is not acceptable in this day and age.
“You don’t spank children today,” said Longoria, “in the old days, maybe we got spanked, but there was a different quarrel. You don’t spank children. You understand?”

Judge or not, who is he to decide how to discipline a child? The only reason what so ever, that the judge was able to prosecute and sentence Mrs. Gonzales, is because the grandmother took the child to a hospital, claimed inury, and that "injury" was caused by another human being.

I find it kinda sad we waste resources and time on small things like this. I, as stated before in a thread long long ago, am pro-spanking. Beating, hitting, biting, kicking, slapping, etc, are no ok with me. I light pop with an open hand to a childs rear, in an effort to get their attention, is ok by me.

[Syntic]

I don't agree with spanking at all personally, but I respect others doing it and completely understand why they would. I was never spanked and I turned out fine. What I do find a little strange though, that even if you do agree with spanking I don't really see what good it would do to a 2 year old.

That said, 5 years probation is ridiculous, especially since there were no injuries what-so-ever and a definite over reaction to a situation which didn't require a punishment to the parent at all.

[frott]

Every time I did something wrong when I was younger, I got a swat on the ass. I deserved it, and I turned out fine. I've been spanked several times in my life, and again, I turned out all right. I'll do the same when I have kids, too. I won't have my children acting like inane little maniacs, driving other people insane, and making them miserable.

As my mom used to say, 'I brought you into this world, I'll definitely take you out.' Not the literal sense, but yeah :P She'd put us in our places.

And diaper swatting works on younger children, just a light swat on the ass used to set my younger siblings in place. And so did a time out (1 minute per year. 2 minutes=2 years old.)

When my mom said that I said "if you did that you'd go to jail." Now what, mom?

Time outs are funny too. You're rational enough to change your behavior so you don't get more time outs but not enough to ignore time outs and essentially negate them as a punishment. As others have stated here, those sorts of punishments essentially rely on the kid and how much control/attention you have to give.

Spanking a two year old would be like putting a 2 year old in time out or removing their privileges, equally ridiculous.

[surrounded]

Using fear as a tactic of "discipline" to "help" your kids behave, is just plain stupid. Sure, it works, in the short run, but long term, NOO. It not only scars your kids for the rest of their live's, but it makes them in constant fear of their parents, (not a good way to grow up). Not only that, but parents who hit their children do it out of pure laziness, because they don't want to actually learn other ways to help their children from acting up. My parents never hit me, and yes I was an annoying kid, but I turned out to be a very considerate, not spoiled, sweet, funny, person. Kids will always be annoying till the end of time, that's just life.

[frott]

To Frott: Understood, again I'll never condone child abuse. Though as a last resort when all else fails(Even stepping away to count to 10) spanking is not going to be ruled out by me as I will never think its wrong. I try to suggest alternatives, even bribes, but more often then not things will continue to happen until a tap on the padded butt(Diaper worn) happens and then the actions stop.

Yes, we're just in the world of theorycrafting anyway.

Some people see teaching ANY sort of societal implication to a kid (religion, politics, nationalism) as a form of child abuse in that really all parenting ends up being is molding the kid in your own image without any respect to their will. That's why kids have privileges and not rights, etc.

Of course, some people mold with words/ideas and others mold with the metaphorical firm hand & chisel.

[Aeriedk]

Hmm lets put it this way, when I was a kid I was spanked and today I'm a pretty good person. I'm not going into details.

With the way I see some kids act today and think that sometimes they should be smacked across the face with a bat and tossed into a jail cell. Most of these kids wouldn't act this way if there were real consequences, but there isnt because apparently spanking your child is wrong.

Best of luck mankind. It's going down the drain.