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  1. #1
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    Affliction Lock Haste..

    Hey,

    Before you tell me there's another thread about it, or its a stupid question, let me tell you that I've searched the forums and haven't found an answer.

    Recently while reforging back and forth between affliction and demonology for certain boss fights in Firelands, I've come across a question that has just driven me mad. What i've read on the forums (here and EJ) is the fact that haste is our friend and basically we should stack as much as possible of it.

    So let me explain. For most boss fights we use BoD, which is not haste affected therefore has nothing to do with the amount you have. Corruption gets an extra tick (or two) at a certain %, yet with casting haunt, it will get refreshed and those extra ticks will never be "used". Therefore the only reason to stack haste is to reduce the cast time of your shadowbolt and to get an extra tick on UA (which some people don't recast but refresh with fel flame anyway)? Although it does make your DOTs tick faster, you never really get to use them entirely (also assuming you cast haunt when its off CD).

    The reason why I'm asking this is because it seems like it's worth lowering my haste and going for more mastery.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Even if you decide haste isn't the best, mastery is still the worst. You'd want crit over mastery

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by implodee View Post
    Hey,

    Before you tell me there's another thread about it, or its a stupid question, let me tell you that I've searched the forums and haven't found an answer.

    Recently while reforging back and forth between affliction and demonology for certain boss fights in Firelands, I've come across a question that has just driven me mad. What i've read on the forums (here and EJ) is the fact that haste is our friend and basically we should stack as much as possible of it.

    So let me explain. For most boss fights we use BoD, which is not haste affected therefore has nothing to do with the amount you have. Corruption gets an extra tick (or two) at a certain %, yet with casting haunt, it will get refreshed and those extra ticks will never be "used". Therefore the only reason to stack haste is to reduce the cast time of your shadowbolt and to get an extra tick on UA (which some people don't recast but refresh with fel flame anyway)? Although it does make your DOTs tick faster, you never really get to use them entirely (also assuming you cast haunt when its off CD).

    The reason why I'm asking this is because it seems like it's worth lowering my haste and going for more mastery.

    Thanks
    If I'm reading this right...which maybe i'm not?

    Just because haunt will refresh your corruption doesn't mean you won't get more ticks from corruption. With more haste it will tick more often, the extra ticks aren't gained at the end of the dot

  4. #4
    With proper haste you gain another tick of corruption within the normal time-span aka shit ticks faster

  5. #5
    Deleted
    oh, i edited by accident before i posted. it said crit/mastery ... but yea..

  6. #6
    haste is incredible so get as much as possible while not sacrificing something important like hit. the guy above is correct in that mastery and crit are our worst stats.

    the hit cap is 17%...but actually you really dont need to. I was down at 16.25 at one point and i would check recount at the end of the raid night and there wasnt a single miss on there. Right now i am over 20% haste self buffed, and to me thats really not enough haha.

  7. #7
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by undethknight View Post
    With proper haste you gain another tick of corruption within the normal time-span aka shit ticks faster
    So for example haunt has an 8 sec CD with a 12 second full timer. Lets say you get 10 corruption ticks with 0 haste, and at 2000 haste you get 13, but you're going to refresh corruption with haunt after 8 seconds, losing those 3-4-5 extra ticks. I get that it makes "shit tick faster", but you're never going to get all those ticks in. I'm not 100% that I'm being clear... this just popped into my head today and got me confused...

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by implodee View Post
    So for example haunt has an 8 sec CD with a 12 second full timer. Lets say you get 10 corruption ticks with 0 haste, and at 2000 haste you get 13, but you're going to refresh corruption with haunt after 8 seconds, losing those 3-4-5 extra ticks. I get that it makes "shit tick faster", but you're never going to get all those ticks in. I'm not 100% that I'm being clear... this just popped into my head today and got me confused...
    Throughout the whole fight you will get more corruption ticks. Just because Haunt auto-refreshes, doesn't change its tick speed, or stop it from ticking.

  9. #9
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Dodrin View Post
    Throughout the whole fight you will get more corruption ticks. Just because Haunt auto-refreshes, doesn't change its tick speed, or stop it from ticking.
    ok, i got it now thanks to all of you

  10. #10
    When reforging for demo keep in mind mastery becomes huge at higher gear levels.

  11. #11
    For aff rather than thinking in "you get more tics per cast" its best to think of it as "time between tics is less". 0 haste, Corruption and UA both tic at a rate of once per 3 seconds, so with 100% uptime, over a 5 minute fight, you get 100 tics of each.

    With 20% haste, both DoTs tic once every 2.5 seconds, over a 5 minute fight, you get 120 tics of each, even if you don't hit haste "thresholds" with aff, it is always beneficial. The threshold only really matters for destro, and its not for immolate itself, but rather conflagrate, as it does damage based off the amount of tics over a 15 second period (1 cast duration) so if you don't hit the threshold for the extra tics per duration you miss out on the extra conflag damage.

    DoT heavy classes pretty much have no haste caps, as even if you (somehow) managed to get Sbolt to 1 second (yes I'm aware that it's impossible, even in Wrath) your DoTs can still go faster. You could have like 1000% haste and your DoTs would tic at 0.27s intervals... but they could still be faster...
    Last edited by Delia; 2011-07-11 at 08:08 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Viled View Post
    Even if you decide haste isn't the best, mastery is still the worst. You'd want crit over mastery
    Actually Mastery is better then crit if your DLing(As it counts as a DOT and is affected by it, and so is Drain Soul), just get the best gear you can and if you have 13+ Mastery you'll find DL gives better dps.
    Last edited by Eskodas; 2011-07-11 at 08:07 PM.

  13. #13
    Legendary! gherkin's Avatar
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    1% haste = 1 extra tick on UA and Corruption every 5 minutes.
    30% haste = 30 extra ticks, which is a lot of dps.
    More ticks of corruption = more procs of Nightfall, Glyph of Corruption, and Eradication.
    It also pushes your UA and Haunt casts towards GCD cap, and adds an extra shadow bolt every 1.2% or so.

    And on multi target fights, that haste counts for double, while mastery counts for 80% or so (you can only haunt debuff 1 target at a time so the damage is not multiplicative fully)

    ---------- Post added 2011-07-11 at 01:10 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Eskodas View Post
    Actually Mastery is better then crit if your DLing(As it counts as a DOT and is affected by it, and so is Drain Soul), just get the best gear you can and if you have 13+ Mastery you'll find DL gives better dps.
    Drain Life affliction is dead as of a hotfix mid-4.1.

    R.I.P. YARG

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by zebramints View Post
    all the sims say the opposite of that becuase of the 25% DL nerf
    Its currently a 1% nerf to use DL in BiS gear, if you use DL as your filler Mastery's value becomes roughly equal to Haste as thats 25% of you dps suddenly being affected by Mastery.

    If he's here asking for help i doubt he's in BiS gear, if your upgrades have favoured Mastery, use DL as your filler and instead reforge entirely out of Crit and into Haste, this current gear does not have enough haste to make mastery better but they are roughly same if DLing and haste is vastly better then crit or mastery if SBing.
    Last edited by Eskodas; 2011-07-11 at 08:28 PM.

  15. #15
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eskodas View Post
    Its currently a 1% nerf to use DL in BiS gear, if you use DL as your filler Mastery's value becomes roughly equal to Haste as thats 25% of you dps suddenly being affected by Mastery.

    If he's here asking for help i doubt he's in BiS gear, if your upgrades have favoured Mastery, use DL as your filler and instead reforge entirely out of Crit and into Haste, this current gear does not have enough haste to make mastery better but they are roughly same if DLing and haste is vastly better then crit or mastery if SBing.


    i would ignore this myself blizzard has said they do not want DL as a filler for Pve and WILL stop it if it starts to do to much damage

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by slozon View Post
    i would ignore this myself blizzard has said they do not want DL as a filler for Pve and WILL stop it if it starts to do to much damage
    Blizzard also said they wanted every spec to be viable for pve and pvp... that worked out*rolls eyes*.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Eskodas View Post
    Actually Mastery is better then crit if your DLing(As it counts as a DOT and is affected by it, and so is Drain Soul), just get the best gear you can and if you have 13+ Mastery you'll find DL gives better dps.
    if you are DLing then you have a lot bigger issues then worrying about mastery. DLing is useless now

  18. #18
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Eskodas View Post
    Its currently a 1% nerf to use DL in BiS gear, if you use DL as your filler Mastery's value becomes roughly equal to Haste as thats 25% of you dps suddenly being affected by Mastery.

    If he's here asking for help i doubt he's in BiS gear, if your upgrades have favoured Mastery, use DL as your filler and instead reforge entirely out of Crit and into Haste, this current gear does not have enough haste to make mastery better but they are roughly same if DLing and haste is vastly better then crit or mastery if SBing.
    don't want to sound snotty after the help i've recieved, and no im not in BIS gear, im around 364 ilevel (which isnt horrible but not great). why i did bring this up is the fact that even after having the spec, the glyphs, the enchants and the gems, i just feel there's more dps to be pulled out of my lock. i'm guessing what is a little different in my rotation compared to other ones is the fact that i enjoy using fel flame to refresh UA instead of recasting it.
    7058 sp, 18.19% haste, 16.37% hit and 13.07% crit are my stats. have followed gherkin's posts and have gemmed,enchanted,specced and glyph as he says, but im just not convinced im doint the right dps for my gear, thats all

  19. #19
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eskodas View Post
    Blizzard also said they wanted every spec to be viable for pve and pvp... that worked out*rolls eyes*.
    name 1 spec that is unplayable in pvp or pve

    btw you should define viable imo all spec are viable for anything
    competitive on the other hand is a different story

    ---------- Post added 2011-07-12 at 04:23 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by implodee View Post
    don't want to sound snotty after the help i've recieved, and no im not in BIS gear, im around 364 ilevel (which isnt horrible but not great). why i did bring this up is the fact that even after having the spec, the glyphs, the enchants and the gems, i just feel there's more dps to be pulled out of my lock. i'm guessing what is a little different in my rotation compared to other ones is the fact that i enjoy using fel flame to refresh UA instead of recasting it.
    7058 sp, 18.19% haste, 16.37% hit and 13.07% crit are my stats. have followed gherkin's posts and have gemmed,enchanted,specced and glyph as he says, but im just not convinced im doint the right dps for my gear, thats all

    that right there is where you are losing alot of dps
    Last edited by Orange Joe; 2011-07-12 at 08:24 PM.

  20. #20
    I wish you could maybe soulburn + felflame and it would make it an interrupt...cuz I never use felflame

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