Progression's double-edged sword

[Nobleshield]

This is a dilemma I've had for a bit and I have yet to find a good solution. I am in a guild that is fairly casual (laid back approach, 2/week raid nights @ 3/hours a night). My raid group got about 10/12 regularly on T11 content, but never could push that extra mile to knock Nef down (and we haven't tried with 4.2 coming), and never made an attempt on Al'akir although we 9-manned Conclave (which I am proud of since I had never even seen them before that night; one wipe/reset because we messed up, and then down). As of now we have downed Shannox (hopefully he's now farm for us; will find out tonight) and have attempted Beth'tilac, Alysrazor and Rhyolith to get familiar with the fights, but not much progress there. That currently puts me 10/12 T11 (no hard modes) and only 1/7 T12 with fight experience on other bosses but no kills.

Being in a situation like this seems to basically "glass ceiling" my personal progress, because I don't have the other boss kills to apply to a higher-progressed guild, but my own guild seems to keep running into walls despite our best efforts (and don't get me wrong, I enjoy raiding with them. We have fun; it's a good balance between "serious business" and "who cares let's just wipe and have fun", just I'd like to be further progressed instead of feeling "beneath" others who are in better guilds, if not necessarily better players, clearing more content because they have a better guild, and that seemingly being the only reason all else being equal.) and seems like we just can't get over those last hurdles to progress further.

Am I the only one who seems to experience this kind of double-edged sword, whereby you are in a fair but not really "good" guild doing minor progress, and because of that you can only be accepted into other fair but not really good guilds, because a higher end guild (not talking about Top 10 US/server guilds that are 6/7 HMs, I mean even like 4/7 or 6/7 working on Raggy guilds) will often not take somebody who is lower progressed, yet there doesn't seem to be any way to get further progressed in the current guild? I'm loathe to use the term because I think it sounds arrogant and elitist, but I'm basically talking about a situation where the current guild is "holding you back" because while you may do everything you can, if the 9 other people don't you can't win no matter how good you personally are. For instance, I'm a tank. I can be the best tank ever on a fight, but if adds don't get down or healers don't heal at the right time or somebody doesn't do something, we're going to wipe no matter what I do; that shouldn't reflect poorly on me personally, but often I think it does because all that an outsider tends to see is my progress - they see 10/12 T11 and 1/7 T12 and think "This is a poor player, he has not cleared normal modes in T11 and has only killed Shannox in Firelands" when the reality is that I did everything I could on Nefarian, but interrupts were missed in P2, adds were loose in P3, DPS had issues turning Rhyolith, etc. so I cannot single-handedly save a raid group.

I've thought about considering a server and/or faction change (although I'm on a fairly well-progressed realm, just seems to be a handful of guilds that are "carrying" the realm, basically) but even then it's a weird situation because if you are accepted to a better guild, it's one thing if it's on your own realm and you don't work out (either fail your trial or just don't like them after running with them) but a different story entirely when you are paying $25-55 to raid with a new group. I am torn between wanting to experience the game more, at a level where I think I "belong", to use that term (and again I don't claim to be amazing, but I think I'm better than where I'm at currently.) and being happy just to be able to raid at all even with weeks spent wiping on bosses that others seem to have such an easy time with because everyone operates at 110% and, it seems, don't make any mistakes at all.

I've been spending most of my time gearing up my Prot Warrior to make him my main, but this doesn't help because that toon has zero raid experience (as it's an alt right now), so I have to rely on my main's experience which, as I said before, is fairly lackluster through no fault of my own but gives the impression of a not-so-great player or, dare I say it, even a "scrub".

I haven't yet found a way to get around this issue of progression; just like a job that requires experience in X to get experience in X, it seems that raiding at a good (not "great") level requires X experience to get X experience, and even if you are a good player and you're in a guild that isn't at your level, it's you who gets the backlash.

[abovebeyond]

If the guild you're in couldn't down 12/12 in 4.1, and you want to get further and into HM's for Firelands, I would suggest finding a new guild. Nothing in t11 normal mode was exceptionally difficult and the heroic modes only get exponentially harder and unforgivable. It could very well be the server you play on, but it sounds like you just need to find more dedicated and skilled players who share your goal of finishing content. There is two ways to look at it, you can either make some friends, and then improve your raid members skills, or find skilled raid members and then make some new friends.

I was on a similar raid schedule of 2 nights a week, 3 hours a night and we were 9/13 HMt11 and currently 6/7 Firelands, so you can definitely get further without committing more time to raiding.

Ultimately, if the only thing stopping you from getting into a good raid is an achievement, lie about it, or download an addon to fake the achievement IF you are completely comfortable with the fight already. Exude confidence when you approach PUG leaders, or talk to officers/leaders in established raiding guilds on your server to see if you can get a spot.

[Nobleshield]

It can't be the realm, as it's ranked like #25ish in the US (but again I think it's just a handful of guilds that "carry" the realm; we have a Top 25 I think world guild or close to that on our realm). This is where I'm torn because I've spent a few hundred bucks server hopping and faction changing, and all I've ended up with is less money The fact I'm a tank makes it that much harder because tank spots are hard to come by in raiding guilds without being a "backup tank" or warming the bench unless somebody else is out. Maybe prospects will open up once my Warrior is fully kitted out; Pally tanks seem a dime a dozen.

[ixbrian]

If you're unhappy with your current guild, find a new guild.
Best decision I've ever made.



edit:: I went back and reread your post, and from what it looks like you're worried that your own progression is holding you back from joining "better" guilds, leaving you feeling as if you were pretty much stuck in your current guild.

The thing is, while progression is important, its only important up to a certain point. Better guilds want players that understand their class and the role a player is supposed to play within a raid setting. My current guild, when apping I had to post logs, screenshots of my UI, along with justification for my talent choices. I only had 11/12 exp up till about 2 weeks before 4.2 when I joined my new guild and in those 2 weeks, the guild I joined went from 12/12 to 5/13, and we are currently 7/7 in firelands hoping to start H-firelands progression tonight.