Dual Wield Frost

[Martyn 470]

Few Questions, After Months of having my Dk at level 85 and sitting there doing nothing, i decided to pull him out and bought some Gurubashi Punshers on the AH.

Does Dual wield Frost Scale very well?
i mean at the moment, i've got 350 ilvl wearing half tank pieces ( the tank bracers with 180Str, BOE ones from ZA trash)
Im using unenchanted and ungemmed Tank gloves from a heroic HOO or something, yet on the dummy im pulling 15-17k dps Sustained, the damage seems unbelieveably high at the moment, considering ive got a full 359 geared Ret pally who pulls the same or slightly higher dps, with miles better gear.

Another question is, is Dual wield currently the way to go? I mean im basically Starting on a blank canvas here, im able to get into Zalandari heroics and the dps i output is more than capable, but i want to take this blank canvas and use it as the best Dps spec, i've always used Frost, but Always 2h

cheers.

[necromus]

Few Questions, After Months of having my Dk at level 85 and sitting there doing nothing, i decided to pull him out and bought some Gurubashi Punshers on the AH.

Does Dual wield Frost Scale very well?
i mean at the moment, i've got 350 ilvl wearing half tank pieces ( the tank bracers with 180Str, BOE ones from ZA trash)
Im using unenchanted and ungemmed Tank gloves from a heroic HOO or something, yet on the dummy im pulling 15-17k dps Sustained, the damage seems unbelieveably high at the moment, considering ive got a full 359 geared Ret pally who pulls the same or slightly higher dps, with miles better gear.

Another question is, is Dual wield currently the way to go? I mean im basically Starting on a blank canvas here, im able to get into Zalandari heroics and the dps i output is more than capable, but i want to take this blank canvas and use it as the best Dps spec, i've always used Frost, but Always 2h

cheers.

My dk is dW frost but always has unholy aura on because that is what Elitist Jerks forums said to do for maximum dps.

[Pool of the Dead]

Dual wield is ahead of 2Hander by a margin atm through simcrafts.

just sink some gold into 2 of the new 365 str 1h axes, or 2 obsidium cleavers if you have the money, and go too town.

at iLvl 355 im able to do around 25-26k on heroic bosses in randoms (given thats with 15% damage buff) but that is with only 1 365 axe and a 353 Heartless.

also stats go Str>Exptocap=hittocap>Haste>mastery>crit.

And stay in unholy Aura.

[Avatar Killer]

Dual wield is ahead of 2Hander by a margin atm through simcrafts.

And stay in unholy Aura.

Simcrafts always show DW marginally higher which is completely irrelevant. it IS higher but not by anywhere near what sims show.

secondly if you forge haste > mastery then yes use UH aura. if you forge Mastery > crit then FP is the way to go. If done right the damage is similar. its mostly a play style thing.

[Pool of the Dead]

Simcrafts always show DW marginally higher which is completely irrelevant. it IS higher but not by anywhere near what sims show.

secondly if you forge haste > mastery then yes use UH aura. if you forge Mastery > crit then FP is the way to go. If done right the damage is similar. its mostly a play style thing.

Sitting in frost presence gimps you a hell of alot more as your runes take an extra second to refresh and Killing machine procs less, and the GCD of abilities limits the amount of output you can do, and limits how fast you can react to procs.

plus 15% movement speed is valuable on high movement fights, and lets you put a good enchant on boots.

[Kronik85]

Avatar Killer isn't completely BSing. I was intrigued by his posts and tried DW Frost 378/372 with a FP/Mastery build and the numbers aren't that far behind UP/Haste. With around 8-9% Haste your GCD capped and for the most part it was more frenetic than UP/Haste, only tested in ZA/ZG though, could pull 24-25k on bosses which is what I'm doing in UP/Haste.

Your right though, the oppurtunity cost can be punishing and it requires more RP management due to the huge amount of RP you get from Imp FP. I found you needed to keep 50-80 RP pooled incase you hit a bad RNG streak with RE procs. The extra management coupled with the lack of cleaving in FL (normal at least) IMO makes the build subtoptimal. I would also say that losing 7% movement speed isn't really that bothersome on normals too, Shannox can require abit of shifting about but nothing serious if you got it on farm, Beth'lac P1 has movement, but not all that much really, Ryolith your just moving with the legs, Alysrazor it's kinda good on but nothing that can't be countered with good positioning and Baleroc, Staghelm and Ragnaros are all virtually static.

So yeah....if you like it and can play it why not?

[Avatar Killer]

Sitting in frost presence gimps you a hell of alot more as your runes take an extra second to refresh and Killing machine procs less, and the GCD of abilities limits the amount of output you can do, and limits how fast you can react to procs.

plus 15% movement speed is valuable on high movement fights, and lets you put a good enchant on boots.

its not "a hell of a lot more" at all. What you missed is that in FP the rune cooldown is irrelevant due to the longer GCD cooldown thereby keeping the setup in order. keeping 7% haste is optimal for the bonus crits as well as keeping rune refresh timer at an optimal level to prevent what Kronik said about "bad RE procs" though i have (almost) never sat idle (like while in UH Presence stacking haste) because i didn't have something to do (because of the RP generation).

on top of the fact that you can ranged and/or "cleave" for things like Beth'lac (range and aoe H & norm) Norm shannox (splash damage dogs), Alysrazor's adds (and or him/her?), and ranged and aoe the adds for rag. All these occurrences are about as numerously favored on the other end for haste for the opposing bosses but of course they are all situational and burn phases usually favor haste (but only menially).

the run speed is so menial its irrelevant. 8% vs 15% is less than .02 seconds faster for the short distances you run normally coupled with the ability to do better ranged damage to "compensate" for that gap.

Lastly on the list is the "i don't get to breath while actually using abilities" while using haste. I PERSONALLY don't like to be forced to blow through 55 abilities every minute. FP allows for you to take your time to get to the next ability and focus on what you are doing vs RUSH RUSH RUSH to the next ability. i just favor it more and since the damage is so close in comparison (meaning not so marginal that the extra damage over the course of the fight that it becomes useless to spec that way) that you can viably choose what you want without hindering the raid.

I didn't say it was better i just said its a play style choice.

[Deleted]

I didn't say it was better i just said its a play style choice.

And youre absolutely right, DPS wise both setups are viable and very close, so close that it comes down to personal preference.