Firelands Raid 10 vs 25 Comparison, BlizzCon Site, European Bnet Invitational, Comics

[Gilian]

Before people read into the "10 MAN IZ EZ MOAD", DREAM Paragon made it a point to say that it was only easy if a 10-man raid has the player resources to switch out players for optimal specs/classes for certain fights. Hence why you'll find people on 10-man stuck on Beth'tilac because they have 2 paladin healers.

Some specs are just outright disadvantaged when it comes to a role in some of these fights, and some can just breeze through it, and a lot of 10-man raiding guilds simply do not have the people to switch out an Arcane Mage for a Hunter, or a Holy Paladin for a resto Druid. Hence, probably why there is a percieved lenient DPS curve for 10-man.

Gear will fix that.

They have the same problems in 25 man raids. If you watched their video of Ragnaros or their live stream raid you know they HAVE TO switch classes in and out or they won't kill him.
There are plenty of 25 man guilds who don't have the resources to switch out their shamans for hardmodes because they are subpar. So tell me what's the difference? (Paragon isn't going to kill Ragnaros, and maybe other bosses, with 2-3 resto shamans either in 25 man at the moment).

It was stupid to try to make 10 mans equal to 25 mans because it's impossible. It's a totally different scene and it should stay like that and you should just play what you want to play and not complain. I really don't understand why 10 mans MUST HAVE the same gear and achievements as 25 mans. Just accept and agree that they are different raids. If you really have the feeling that you want the gear from 25 mans then you don't like 10 mans enough anyway.

---------- Post added 2011-08-09 at 02:16 PM ----------

No they're not. Did you even armory the people they use? They average 380-384. So basically if you are at or above the gear level that the bosses are tuned to (for example H Baleroc 10 is tuned for ilvl 380), the boss becomes easier than when you were doing it undergeared when they were trying Heroic 25s.

And then they have the audacity to cry that 10 mans are easier?

Surprise! When you are geared for and have the strats for a boss, the boss becomes easier than when you are reconning him undergeared. Holy smokes man, alert the media.

Another good example of someone ignoring the facts and not even listening properly to what Paragon actually said about this. They didn't "cry" that 10 mans are easier just to annoy you. They tested 10 man hardmodes to see if they should switch to 10 mans. If they were harder they would have because they want to progress on the hardest content there is.

I am a big enough man to admit it when 10 mans are harder. But from experience and no proof, and now that the best guild in the world has tested it, I really don't think 10 mans are harder or even equal.

And seriously those few items aren't going to make that much of a difference. And I just watched their live raid and they are still struggling on Ragnaros 25 man with that gear you are talking about.

---------- Post added 2011-08-09 at 02:25 PM ----------

1 guild in the world not bringing a shammy does not mean every shammy in the world now has to re-roll. They were aiming for a world first kill(which is usually done with gear from the previous tier)so they took a comp that suited them the most.

It does mean they are very underpowered. The guy that gets interviewed during their live raid also stated that shamans are very very bad and bring nothing to the raid not even one spec. Even after having killed raganaros twice (or more?) on hardmode they still have to kick out their 1 shaman because they otherwise won't be able to kill him.

It's impossible to tune classes how blizzard wants them to be.

[keLston]

I am a big enough man to admit it when 10 mans are harder. But from experience and no proof, and now that the best guild in the world has tested it, I really don't think 10 mans are harder or even equal.

And seriously those few items aren't going to make that much of a difference. And I just watched their live raid and they are still struggling on Ragnaros 25 man with that gear you are talking about.

Which explains why there's only been maybe 2(?) true 10man guilds in the world that has killed heroic Ragnaros 10 while every other H Rags kill was done by a 25 man who could pretend that a 2 frost DK 2 hunter 3 paladin setup was a normal raid group?