Rawsome foods raided by u.s. government

[Othred]

OK watched the youtube vid.... and the people on it are stupid. The problem wit this country is that people watch to much law and order and other cap like that and that is how the legal system works. The moron saying that they were arrested with out having their rights read to them is an idiot.. All we have here is a bunch of butt hurt hippies and morons that broke that law cause selling raw dairy is illegal and they got caught. Stupid people get off my mmo site and take this to some hippy forums.

[Deleted]

I would suggest the people who are so much for raw food/milk to check the following videos and inform themselves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VbwYqV4Eog (raw milk part 1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QuduG4CCyc (raw milk part 2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKKvmFZBALo (raw food part 1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD11em1uXgk (raw food part 2)

I'm not going to parrot the points in these videos as I would prefer people educate themselves.

As for the point of the thread, it's quite clear that there is no "conspiracy" at place, the reason they got raided was because they were making profit by doing illegal deeds, it doesn't even matter if raw food is "safe" according to them, it's been said that you can legally sell it if you use the proper channels and get the proper permits. These people chose to ignore said channels and permits and make profit while doing so, so rightfully they should be punished. For anyone using the "but it's my freedom to do whatever I want in this case", do you also ignore stop signs while driving since after all, it's supposedly your freedom to do whatever you want? The regulations in this case are there to protect you, just as the stop signs. Ignoring them bears the risk of hurting others, and that's where your freedom ends, and should end.

Also, I just want to stress it again, you have the freedom to consume whatever you want, however, the company that sells said products to you does not have the freedom to sell anything they want without any permits whatsoever as this said company was doing.

[StationaryHawk]

But why were they raided? How can I know if I'm supposed to be outraged or agree with their actions if I don't know why the raid took place? For all I know, there could be a very understandable reason as to why they raided some place I can't say I know what is.

Though I'll disagree with the gag order.

[Othred]

i would suggest the people who are so much for raw food/milk to check the following videos and inform themselves.


As for the point of the thread, it's quite clear that there is no "conspiracy" at place, the reason they got raided was because they were making profit by doing illegal deeds, it doesn't even matter if raw food is "safe" according to them, it's been said that you can legally sell it if you use the proper channels and get the proper permits. These people chose to ignore said channels and permits and make profit while doing so, so rightfully they should be punished. For anyone using the "but it's my freedom to do whatever i want in this case", do you also ignore stop signs while driving since after all, it's supposedly your freedom to do whatever you want? The regulations in this case are there to protect you, just as the stop signs. Ignoring them bears the risk of hurting others, and that's where your freedom ends, and should end.

Also, i just want to stress it again, you have the freedom to consume whatever you want, however, the company that sells said products to you does not have the freedom to sell anything they want without any permits whatsoever as this said company was doing.

damn straight

[Willeonge]

Very good point actually, humans have only started consuming dairy products about 10000 years ago and our system is still not adapted to consuming it. the whole notion of someone selling milk claiming to be all natural is kinda funny in that regard.

but dairy products are so tasty! /eats cheeseburger

[GodlyBob]

A. it is highly irresponsible to release GMO crops without thorough investigation and study, which has not happened to date. monsanto is the sole owner to the intellectual property rights to said GMO seeds. for a nice view on how the financials work behind this check out food inc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEu27wZZtHI

I'm not saying that some companies can get shifty when profits are on the line, I am saying that there's no reason to believe that a GMO is evil after we've been doing research on them, as a whole for some 20-odd years now. If there was any inkling to any ill side effects of regularly ingesting a GMO I don't think they'd be nearly as widespread as they are today. "Thorough," as you used it, feels a little subjective. If the FDA, that apparently horrendous bureaucracy, conducted studies and thinks that it's okay for me to eat drought-resistant corn, I'd say that would qualify as "thorough investigation and study."

[ThePalidius]

Not really because if you go by OP's logic there could always be a gigantic conspiracy among all scientists to make us believe this. It is possible cause you can't prove it's not true

>.<

On topic: the hell is the point of this topic? you basically said: " hey look people got arrested and that might be an outrage, cause they might be innocent! We might have to get all kinds of upset about this"

no the point of this topic was hey, look people got arrested which they shouldnt have been arrested to begin with because the law they are accused of breaking shouldnt even be a law to begin with. We might have to get all kinds of upset about this.

you have misunderstood my point completely. and its a shame you have jumped to a conclusion as to a point only i could know, instead of asking me. the sad part is how quick most of the posters in this thread have been so willingly to judge the accused in the thread, assume their assumptions are correct (using the illogical appeal to authority),without even questioning if the law should be a law to begin with. its like the masses just hear what government says, and follows the instructions blindly without protest. smh. how is that thinking outside of the box? allowing the government to limit you by law in turn limits your creativity, and freedom.
this is the mindset that currently plagues the future of progress. freedom will bring progress. the financial market, when not controlled by few but by the people will fix itself, and laws do not provide security. how is this hard to understand?

[Idoru]

Many products have failed testing and are still on the market, Aspartame for one, that's why they have to put "Aspartame" on the front, cause it never went through proper testing, it was pushed through by their business people like Donald Rumsfeld. Aspartame might be linked with diabetes as well, since it tricks the body into thinking it got sugar, when it didn't, it satisfy the craving, and can knock insulin out of balance. Yet it's still in tons of products.

Tinfoil hat time: They actually started using the word "Aspartame" on the labels because "NutraSweet" got a bad reputation. Of course, not many people know that they are the same.

---------- Post added 2011-08-06 at 07:44 PM ----------

no the point of this topic was hey, look people got arrested which they shouldnt have been arrested to begin with because the law they are accused of breaking shouldnt even be a law to begin with. We might have to get all kinds of upset about this.

you have misunderstood my point completely. and its a shame you have jumped to a conclusion as to a point only i could know, instead of asking me. the sad part is how quick most of the posters in this thread have been so willingly to judge the accused in the thread, assume their assumptions are correct (using the illogical appeal to authority),without even questioning if the law should be a law to begin with. its like the masses just hear what government says, and follows the instructions blindly without protest. smh. how is that thinking outside of the box? allowing the government to limit you by law in turn limits your creativity, and freedom.
this is the mindset that currently plagues the future of progress. freedom will bring progress. the financial market, when not controlled by few but by the people will fix itself, and laws do not provide security. how is this hard to understand?

The fact that you disagree with a law doesn't give you the right to break it.

[Almighty1]

Laws should not be passed to put the issue of WHAT IF to rest.

Nobody should have to surrender their rights because of a WHAT IF until it turns into "IT'S HIGHLY LIKELY"

Even if Raw milk hospitalized roughly 15,000 people in the U.S a year it still doesn't warrant being outlawed, If it killed 15,000 a year on the other hand I might be a little more sympathetic to a law that bans it.

umm yes they should. and like i said before no one is stopping you from eating and producing organic food, but you have to follow protocols such as regular vet checks to make sure the animals are healthy.

Your lack of intelligence is shocking. Do construction workers wear hard hats because they Know something is going to fall on their head or is it because something MIGHT fall on their head. Do you wear a seat-belt because you are planning on getting in an accident or do you wear in case you do?

Preventive measure save lives.

In 2009, 29 U.S. states allowed sales of raw milk in some form. In other parts of the world, raw milk can often be bought directly from the farmer. Arizona, California and Washington allow raw milk sales in retail stores with appropriate warning labeling. As of May 2010, Massachusetts only allows direct sales from farm to consumer, resulting in "buying clubs" where consumers pool transportation resources to obtain raw milk more conveniently.
In late 2007, the debate received media attention in California, where limits on the bacterial counts legally allowed in commercial raw milk came up for legislative review. Reuters named the raw milk debate as first on a list of the top eight health issues of 2008.The FDA has also offered financial assistance to state departments of health to help reduce raw milk consumption.

Learn2google

[Herecius]

this is the mindset that currently plagues the future of progress. freedom will bring progress. the financial market, when not controlled by few but by the people will fix itself, and laws do not provide security. how is this hard to understand?

Do you have proof that the world really will become a better place if all of those in power are thrown out and every single issue in the financial and health sector is allowed to be voted on by the populace at large? I find that a hard pill to swallow. And two can play at the 'give me proof' game.

[Almighty1]

I would suggest the people who are so much for raw food/milk to check the following videos and inform themselves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VbwYqV4Eog (raw milk part 1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QuduG4CCyc (raw milk part 2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKKvmFZBALo (raw food part 1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD11em1uXgk (raw food part 2)

I'm not going to parrot the points in these videos as I would prefer people educate themselves.

As for the point of the thread, it's quite clear that there is no "conspiracy" at place, the reason they got raided was because they were making profit by doing illegal deeds, it doesn't even matter if raw food is "safe" according to them, it's been said that you can legally sell it if you use the proper channels and get the proper permits. These people chose to ignore said channels and permits and make profit while doing so, so rightfully they should be punished. For anyone using the "but it's my freedom to do whatever I want in this case", do you also ignore stop signs while driving since after all, it's supposedly your freedom to do whatever you want? The regulations in this case are there to protect you, just as the stop signs. Ignoring them bears the risk of hurting others, and that's where your freedom ends, and should end.

Also, I just want to stress it again, you have the freedom to consume whatever you want, however, the company that sells said products to you does not have the freedom to sell anything they want without any permits whatsoever as this said company was doing.

so much truth that i had to quote it

[ThePalidius]

I'm not saying that some companies can get shifty when profits are on the line, I am saying that there's no reason to believe that a GMO is evil after we've been doing research on them, as a whole for some 20-odd years now. If there was any inkling to any ill side effects of regularly ingesting a GMO I don't think they'd be nearly as widespread as they are today. "Thorough," as you used it, feels a little subjective. If the FDA, that apparently horrendous bureaucracy, conducted studies and thinks that it's okay for me to eat drought-resistant corn, I'd say that would qualify as "thorough investigation and study."

can you provide proof to your claim in regards to the 20 odd year study, or verifying the credibility of the FDA?

[GodlyBob]

Well a plant would reject the splicing of branches if it was too bad. but now with more advanced genetic methods, they put spider dna in goats so they make silk in their milk, and insect DNA in plants, they also have GMO salmon that will grow 2 times larger, the problem with the salmon issue is, they they got loose in the wild, they would cause a lot of problems. I just think humans ethics haven't caught up with their technology advancement, and I simply don't trust corporations, the only people they care about, really, are the stockholders, lead by sociopathic minds.

We don't drink the milk with the silk in it. We don't eat the glowing mice or the monster salmon. Experiments like that are never intended to be consumed in any way by the public.

[Vanyali]

Do you have proof that the world really will become a better place if all of those in power are thrown out and every single issue in the financial and health sector is allowed to be voted on by the populace at large? I find that a hard pill to swallow. And two can play at the 'give me proof' game.

The people of America are very good at deciding things good sir ! We will pass all sorts of fun laws that get people killed and it'll be okay!

[Herecius]

can you provide proof to your claim in regards to the 20 odd year study, or verifying the credibility of the FDA?

Can you provide proof that the FDA is not credible and that the studies on GMO foods such as drought-resistant corn do not exist?

[Merrok]

Many products have failed testing and are still on the market, Aspartame for one, that's why they have to put "Aspartame" on the front, cause it never went through proper testing, it was pushed through by their business people like Donald Rumsfeld. Aspartame might be linked with diabetes as well, since it tricks the body into thinking it got sugar, when it didn't, it satisfy the craving, and can knock insulin out of balance. Yet it's still in tons of products.

Actually, speaking as a Type 1 diabetic (that's juvenile diabetes, folks), if Aspartame or other sweeteners like it "tricked" the body into spiking insulin levels I'd be dead given the amount of diet soda I drink. Glucose causes the pancreas to release insulin, not "sugary tastes" or anything else that artificial sweeteners would do.

Your body isn't stupid.

[Kinettik]

no the point of this topic was hey, look people got arrested which they shouldnt have been arrested to begin with because the law they are accused of breaking shouldnt even be a law to begin with. We might have to get all kinds of upset about this.

you have misunderstood my point completely. and its a shame you have jumped to a conclusion as to a point only i could know, instead of asking me. the sad part is how quick most of the posters in this thread have been so willingly to judge the accused in the thread, assume their assumptions are correct (using the illogical appeal to authority),without even questioning if the law should be a law to begin with. its like the masses just hear what government says, and follows the instructions blindly without protest. smh. how is that thinking outside of the box? allowing the government to limit you by law in turn limits your creativity, and freedom.
this is the mindset that currently plagues the future of progress. freedom will bring progress. the financial market, when not controlled by few but by the people will fix itself, and laws do not provide security. how is this hard to understand?

Regardless of your stance on what should/should not be a law is irrelevant. The party in question broke a law, blatantly, instead of doing their part in making the law obsolete. Its one thing to disagree with a law, and its reason for existence, it is another altogether to just say "Fuck it, I dont believe in this law, so I will do what I want!" which in essence, is exactly what transpired here.

They broke a law, and got arrested. And you can claim its illogical to assume they broke a law without evidence, although its been pointed out in great lengths as to how this raid had to follow laws and guidelines to even occur, which means, they had PROOF (evidence) that a law was being broke.

How about for a few posts, you remove the tin-foil hat and have a real discussion, with real people.

[Sooba]

Well a plant would reject the splicing of branches if it was too bad. but now with more advanced genetic methods, they put spider dna in goats so they make silk in their milk, and insect DNA in plants, they also have GMO salmon that will grow 2 times larger, the problem with the salmon issue is, they they got loose in the wild, they would cause a lot of problems. I just think humans ethics haven't caught up with their technology advancement, and I simply don't trust corporations, the only people they care about, really, are the stockholders, lead by sociopathic minds... snip

Actually I WORKED on those salmon repeatedly in a lab as well as at an aquaculture centre near my city. Any salmon in cages that are exposed to the wild are STERILE. Stop watching all the conspiracy videos. Additionally, in Canada at least, aspartame never "failed" any test. That's nonsense. It's simply the same with any other food, you need to label it so people know what's inside. As for a link with diabetes it does not exist. The same as the false-link between vaccines as Autism. Again, stop watching conspiracy videos.

[ThePalidius]

So the only person in this thread to some what share your views is the only logical one? Get off your high horse, half of your "logical arguments" are only logical to YOU. The have been many posts in this thread with similar logic, yet since they dont share your sentiment of the situation, you try to dismiss them by twisting their statements and countering with your own illogical fallacies.

Its funny how far conspiracy theorists and those with close minded views will go to prove that theyre the only ones right in a discussion...

then kindly point out my illogical fallacies. you also seem to think i was imposing an opinion on anybody, which i did not. i only refuted their logic.

[GodlyBob]

can you provide proof to your claim in regards to the 20 odd year study, or verifying the credibility of the FDA?

http://www.who.int/foodsafety/publications/biotech/en/ec_june2000_en.pdf

joint FAO/WHO report from June 2000, titled: Safety aspects of genetically modified foods of plant origin