How would you make fire competitive again? Wishlist.

[Kaeleena]

Heard using T11 data is relevant.

The adjusted totals are the equivilent of hitting a target dummy, reguardless of tier. Let's just change every bosses mechanics to make them benefit ranged. That'll help.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

The adjusted totals are the equivilent of hitting a target dummy.

Nice try but no. See my edit. Magmaw, you impact a double damage combustion set to the parasites. Omnotron you can multi-dot with a damage boost. Maloriak has a fair AOE phase you can impact off of. Do I really need to continue? It's an interesting site but you're using it incorrectly. Adjusted totals is average of logs without Halfus.

Edit:

The adjusted totals are the equivilent of hitting a target dummy, reguardless of tier. Let's just change every bosses mechanics to make them benefit ranged. That'll help.

If you had any sense in you, you would have realized that adjusted totals is combined average logs for T11 sans Halfus, and of course Sinestra who isn't even recorded. On no planet available to us does fire out-DPS arcane on a target dummy or patchwerk fight.

[Alvito]

http://stateofdps.com/ 25H, top 200, turn it up to top 40, fire outdps's Arcane.
Mage - Fire 35670 avg dps 36743 med dps 99% 432 samples
Mage - Arcane 34895 avg dps 31984 med dps 97% 432 samples

Those are scans for out dated raid content for starters. Fire greatly suffers in 10 man groups due to the lack of crit/haste buffs from the raid. Yes that effects all casters but it greatly lowers their numbers. Arcane which are mastery hogs dont take as large of a hit since haste and crit dont buff them up nearly the same ways. T11 content was much more fire friendly since there are more fights that you can spread combustions to multiple targets and cheese the meters. Fireland adds dont have enough life to make it worth it or are too spread out to do it effectively when compaired to T11 adds. You might want to start looking at current fights instead of bosses that ppl can easily kill in BOA gear.

[Weerra]

The trouble with that is RNG.

Fire has a tendency to range in performance on any given Patchwerk fight from poor to actually not bad.

If they buff Fire to make it "in-line" with other specs, how far do they buff it? So that good RNG means it's competitive but bad RNG makes it suck, or so that it's always good and when the stars align it's just straight up OP.

Fire's too inconsistent and unreliable. Fix that (requiring a lot of spec tweaks or even an overhaul) and then you can start reliably buffing and number tweaking.

How about making Pyro proc after a certain amount of hits, crit or no crit?
For example, 40% (or what it is currently) on 1 crit, 100% on two sequential crits, 40% on three-four hits, 100 on four-five hits?

[Kaeleena]

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/#7

Is that a little better for you? Fire is 8% off Arcane. That's competitive. No other class has 2 specs that are as competitive as Arcane and Fire.

The problem is that ranged DPS in general is off the charts. Melee can't even break 80%.

Edit: I stand corrected. Combat Rogues break 80%. 80.7% to be exact.

[Exera]

Bring back the old Scorch debuff!

[Weerra]

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/#7

Is that a little better for you? Fire is 8% off Arcane. That's competitive. No other class has 2 specs that are as competitive as Arcane and Fire.

No. It's skewed by fire owning alysrazor. On each other boss, fire fails.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/#7

Is that a little better for you? Fire is 8% off Arcane. That's competitive. No other class has 2 specs that are as competitive as Arcane and Fire.

It's the same fucking info on a different site using pretty graphics and T12 info. The ONLY reason fire shows on that is Alysrazor. Break it down boss by boss.

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Beth%27ti.../60/default/#7
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Lord_Rhyo.../60/default/#7
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Shannox/2.../60/default/#7
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Baleroc/2.../60/default/#7
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Majordomo.../60/default/#7

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Alysrazor.../60/default/#7 lol 100k combustion ticks and 350% haste.

[Exera]

So, you want a talent that lets you spam instant Pyroblasts for 15 seconds every 30 seconds, in addition to the damage Fire Orb does? /facepalm

Fire needs percentage buffs, their playstyle is fine, its just their numbers that need compensating.

I'd also /facepalm if I commented before reading properly, he said INCREASES CD by 15/30 seconds not DECREASES.

[Kaeleena]

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...14/60/default/

There's overall dps. The average dps is right around where it should be though.

Same problem Arcane had at the beginning of Cata. Middle of the pack overall but excelled in 1 fight.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...14/60/default/

There's overall dps. The average dps is right around where it should be though.

Same problem Arcane had at the beginning of Cata. Middle of the pack overall but excelled in 1 fight.

That's all there is to say. Fucking seriously. If this isn't trolling, I don't know what else to say.

I'm done guys, you deal with this one.

[pyrostorm9001]

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...14/60/default/

There's overall dps. The average dps is right around where it should be though.

Same problem Arcane had at the beginning of Cata. Middle of the pack overall but excelled in 1 fight.

You are still including a fight that HEAVILY favors fire due to massive haste and crit buffs (the crit removes fires RNG issues and the haste buffs combustion ticks) this is the rare exception not the rule.
If you look at every other fight on a case by case basis you will see fire is behind 6-8k on every fight (bar Alysrazor)
This list of fights only includes players who are posting there kills... not every guild does that.

Stop trollin FIRE SUCKS

[Twoflower]

RNG hates me and I hate RNG.

Even if fire gets to be the top spec in the next patch, I will stick with arcane/frost.

[Exera]

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...14/60/default/

There's overall dps. The average dps is right around where it should be though.

Same problem Arcane had at the beginning of Cata. Middle of the pack overall but excelled in 1 fight.

Remove Alysrazor from that and you'll see the REAL number, a gimmick fight does not belong in a calculation of overall DPS, and Alysrazor is as gimmicky as it gets, hell it's so gimmicky that you dont even want to gear/reforge for fire for it, you want to be geared like an arcane mage.

On every other fight fire is WAY bellow arcane and not by just a little bit.

[Eschatonin]

TL;DR

But Stateofdps and Raidbots should never be used as evidence for anything at all. It's as fact-filled as a creationist magazine.

[Pasture]

1. Talent to reduce the cooldown of Flame Orb to 30 seconds. Thematically Fire should get more play out of Fire Orb than the other specs.

2. Reduce the Combustion cooldown to 1 minute. It's Fire's on demand burst. It just needs to be available for that demand more often.

3. Add in a new talent. "Your next two Fireball casts are guaranteed to crit. 1 minute cooldown." Allows you to be able to guarantee a Combustion. Two Fireballs critting = nice ignite + guaranteed Pyro proc at the end. Living Bomb you can make sure is up yourself. It removes the RNG element of getting a good ignite. You get a trinket proc, you activite your guaranteed Fireball crits, make sure Living Bomb is up and chuck your Pyro and you're good to go.

If 30 second Flame Orb and guaranteed 1 min Combustion isn't quite enough to push Fire back up to a competitive level then Fireball damage can just be buffed. I'd rather see the above than a flat % damage buff to all spells, however. The RNG element of Combustion needs to be removed. Getting unlucky with crits (ie not seeing one under trinket procs) is not fun. It's just frustrating.

[mostlyharmless]

It almost seems like combustion is the most problematic element of fire spec. It multiplies our rng problems, and makes fire prone to gimmicky situations like halfus and alysrazor. I think they should scrap combustion and give us a different CD that isn't as prone to so much rng. Mastery is pretty silly too for fire spec, it's like they wanted to make fire more of a dot class but only got us halfway there. I think it would be interesting to have mastery increase the crit multiplier for fire spec.

[Swizzle]

That's all there is to say. Fucking seriously. If this isn't trolling, I don't know what else to say.

I'm done guys, you deal with this one.

I'll see your meme and raise you a:



On topic though, Fire does not need buffing of any sort really. It does great in its niche, as does Arcane. This is worse than people who asked for an appearance tab that are now bitching that it comes with restrictions.

[nemex]

Please keep the thread focused on the original topic. Posting Meme's and data-gathering websites accomplishes nothing, especially when it's related to Fire.

[Swizzle]

Please keep the thread focused on the original topic. Posting Meme's and data-gathering websites accomplishes nothing, especially when it's related to Fire.

To be fair...if there's anything that's related to flaming anything...it's Fire. Personally, I think there are mechanics that could be tweaked with Fire to make it more consistent, but I don't think it needs to be top of the single target trees any time soon.