SF shuts down cellular plus WIFI network to stop peaceful protest

[Twiddly]

http://sfappeal.com/news/2011/08/bart-cell-fcc.php

Good game America, no longer the beautiful, but America the Bound. Legal to do it because of corrupt laws, yet a vile stomping of personal rights.

[Fuzzzie]

You're over-reacting. Public safety trumps a slight inconvenience for 3 hours.

[Lora]

Free speech isnt free. I like that.

[Twiddly]

You're over-reacting. Public safety trumps a slight inconvenience for 3 hours.

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both" Benjamin Franklin, and my exact thoughts on this.

[Fuzzzie]

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both" Benjamin Franklin, and my exact thoughts on this.

Cell phones are a convenience, not a freedom.

[Vantheus]

http://sfappeal.com/news/2011/08/bart-cell-fcc.php

Good game America, no longer the beautiful, but America the Bound. Legal to do it because of corrupt laws, yet a vile stomping of personal rights.

Tons of churches, movie theatres, and schools have jammers that always disable cell service b/c it's annoying there and it's no problem but when BART does it for safety this is end of America? Let me guess you think the right to bear arms lets you take them on planes too right? The BART isnt public property so none of your business what they do, government property equals government rules. The whole bay area is a cesspool anyway so who cares

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both" Benjamin Franklin, and my exact thoughts on this.

God I hate it when people spout that quote out at everything. Taking that 100% literally in every situation is foolish. I'll gladly give up some extent of some freedoms or rights to ensure my safe passage on an airplane. I use the airplane example because it's easy to understand. You give up your right to privacy to some degree to help ensure that nobody comes on board with a weapon. It doesn't work 100% of the time but it does help.

[akteliae]

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both" Benjamin Franklin, and my exact thoughts on this.

Do not quote people if you're going to butcher the quote and the meaning of it.

'Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.' Benjamin Franklin, 'Pennsylvania Assembly: Reply to the Governor,' November 11, 1755.

That's the actual quote. And it does not mean what you are using it to mean. Let go and find a different quote to lamprey onto. Cellphone use is pretty far from what essential liberties entails.

[Kalyyn]

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both" Benjamin Franklin, and my exact thoughts on this.

"Witty quotes mean nothing." ~Voltaire

[Twotonsteak]

http://sfappeal.com/news/2011/08/bart-cell-fcc.php

Good game America, no longer the beautiful, but America the Bound. Legal to do it because of corrupt laws, yet a vile stomping of personal rights.

1. The British Prime Minister has openly blaimed Facebook, Twitter, and Blackberry for playing roles in the recent riots. He's demanded that all three appear and defend themselves. So this is NOT America only.
2. When protests erupted in Egypt, the US Federal Government very quietly passed a law allowing them to shut down ALL internet service nation wide.
3. What are you going to do about it? Other than whine on the forums, of course. Are you going to protest? Are you going to show your face, petition the people in power? Will it change your vote? Hell, will you even vote? Stop complaining and start doing something.

[Kaneiac]

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both" Benjamin Franklin, and my exact thoughts on this.

I love you pseudo-intellectuals who use butchered variants of his actual quote completely out of context.

You'd be okay with someone clearly mentally ill purchasing a gun, just because it's freedom? Or someone who wants to poison your food just because it's freedom?

Please.

The quote isn't even referring to these things - they're essential liberties.

[Kalyyn]

I love you pseudo-intellectuals who use butchered variants of his actual quote completely out of context.

"The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they are real." ~Abraham Lincoln

[Twotonsteak]

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both" Benjamin Franklin, and my exact thoughts on this.

Benjamin Franklin was also an activist. He traveled to England for negotiations. When those negotiations failed he helped to form our government. He went to France to try and secure allies in our war for independence. He was willing to risk prison and even death for what he believed in. He did not post as a faceless creature on the internet.

[Kaneiac]

"The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they are real." ~Abraham Lincoln

“Only Thing We Have to Fear Is Fear Itself” - A.C. Slater, Saved by the Bell.

It's true, look it up.

[Twiddly]

Do not quote people if you're going to butcher the quote and the meaning of it.

'Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.' Benjamin Franklin, 'Pennsylvania Assembly: Reply to the Governor,' November 11, 1755.

That's the actual quote. And it does not mean what you are using it to mean. Let go and find a different quote to lamprey onto. Cellphone use is pretty far from what essential liberties entails.

No, it is not. Nobody knows the exact quote he used at that time; it has been recorded in many, many different ways, from that time period. Please find a different argument.

And taking it literally in every situation IS not a good idea. Bringing up airplanes like that is completely different. This was not some gang of thugs out to burn the place down; it was a peaceful protest. They were not going to be violent, they were not going there to try to threaten anyone, but that is how they were responded to, as if they were brutish thugs out for blood. Extra police, in full riot gear, for a peaceful protest. Shutting down cellular service there, and in a small area around it. What would have happened if someone fell and broke there back and someone tried to call 911? Who would have been at fault?

Saying the area is a cesspool anyway invalidates your entire argument @Vantheus, and I will not bother to reply. So because Somalia is a "cesspool" we should just let them all die?


Sad when people from Egypt say they stand beside Americans on this issue, as they are used to there civil liberties taken away. With some of the responses in this thread, I guess I can see why this country is going down the drain.

[Twotonsteak]

http://sfappeal.com/news/2011/08/bart-cell-fcc.php

Good game America, no longer the beautiful, but America the Bound. Legal to do it because of corrupt laws, yet a vile stomping of personal rights.

Also, note that they shut down cell phones and WIFI service. People still had the option of home computers and LAN line phones. Considering entire revolutions have been organized with less, yes, you ARE over reacting.

[Twiddly]

I love you pseudo-intellectuals who use butchered variants of his actual quote completely out of context.

You'd be okay with someone clearly mentally ill purchasing a gun, just because it's freedom? Or someone who wants to poison your food just because it's freedom?

Please.

The quote isn't even referring to these things - they're essential liberties.

you people taking this completely out of context are hilarious. Yes, a peaceful protest is the SAME thing as a mentally ill person buying a gun! Or killing someone with poison-same thing as a peaceful protest! I am not sure if you people know about a document called the constitution, and our bill of rights-perhaps you should read it sometime, instead of stomping all over it.

And saying I am a "pseudo-intellectual" because you claim the quote is wrong? try looking it up-it is quoted differently from the period multiple times, and you all focusing on that instead of the real issue, the steady decay of liberty in this country, is one of the reasons we are just a few slips on the slope from a police state.

---------- Post added 2011-08-12 at 11:14 PM ----------

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." was actually the quote found in the Memoirs of Ben Franklin in 1818. That's all we have and I'll take that over your crap.

Yes, focus on a quote; avoid the issue, and flame me. Thank you for proving my point about people like you.

[Kaneiac]

you people taking this completely out of context are hilarious. Yes, a peaceful protest is the SAME thing as a mentally ill person buying a gun! Or killing someone with poison-same thing as a peaceful protest! I am not sure if you people know about a document called the constitution, and our bill of rights-perhaps you should read it sometime, instead of stomping all over it.

And saying I am a "pseudo-intellectual" because you claim the quote is wrong? try looking it up-it is quoted differently from the period multiple times, and you all focusing on that instead of the real issue, the steady decay of liberty in this country, is one of the reasons we are just a few slips on the slope from a police state.

I've already provided the source for the original quote, which was from the memoirs of Ben Franklin, in 1818. That is the OLDEST SOURCE of the quote and thus widely regarded as the correct one. Mangling a quote to fit your argument does nothing good, especially when your only defense is "others used variants, I can too!"

Cell phones are not an essential liberty - those waves of reception aren't provided naturally. As far as I can tell, prior to an FCC investigation, none of the guidelines were broken, and this is just fear mongering at it's finest.

[Colbin]

And taking it literally in every situation IS not a good idea. Bringing up airplanes like that is completely different. This was not some gang of thugs out to burn the place down; it was a peaceful protest. They were not going to be violent, they were not going there to try to threaten anyone, but that is how they were responded to, as if they were brutish thugs out for blood. Extra police, in full riot gear, for a peaceful protest. Shutting down cellular service there, and in a small area around it. What would have happened if someone fell and broke there back and someone tried to call 911? Who would have been at fault?

Many many peaceful events, including protests, have turned violent. Watching the world cup a few years ago in Paris (displayed on a giant projector in the city), all the side streets were filled with riot police even though people were just watching the game. When it comes to the safety of people not involved, you plan for if it turns violent, not that it will stay peaceful. Especially with all the riots that have been happening now in England and elsewhere in the world.


As for 911, land lines still work.

[FearXI]

If they knew this was going to happen rumors or not they shouldn't have shut down the cell phones.
Besides the whole freedom of speech aspect, what if someone was hurt and needed to call 911?
There use to stop a risk put others in risk for another reason.

They could have pulled in more officers to keep the peace. Isn't that their job?

<EDIT TO ABOVE>
Land lines? Trying to find a land line takes time that may mean a life.
A few minutes extra could kill.