It's official, Night Elves evolved from Dark Trolls (and MORE lore).

[Thage]

Well, I like to think of it more as like it's all the same thing, just with different names, and Night Elves just like to think of their's as more refined/civilized.

It would certainly fit in with the night elves' supremacist worldview.

[Sal the Shieldhog]

It would certainly fit in with the night elves' supremacist worldview.

The only thing(s) I'm not sure about is the Amani and Gundrak's Loas. Gundrak's were all killed and the Amani's granted beast powers (See what I did there?) to their High Priests. None of them looked like the other Ancients, but this could simply be because each tribe has a different Pantheon?

Like, the Night Elves came from one tribe, so their Loas are different from the Darkspears' or the Amanis' or the Gurubashis'.

Thoughts?

[Thage]

The only thing(s) I'm not sure about is the Amani and Gundrak's Loas. Gundrak's were all killed and the Amani's granted beast powers (See what I did there?) to their High Priests. None of them looked like the other Ancients, but this could simply be because each tribe has a different Pantheon?

Like, the Night Elves came from one tribe, so their Loas are different from the Darkspears' or the Amanis' or the Gurubashis'.

Thoughts?

It would fit with the bit about the Drakkari killing and eating their gods while that has no effect on other loa/pantheons.

[Rommon64]

I know I'm coming in a bit late on this, but, after reading though the thread, I noticed something; Dark Trolls were nocturnal, and much of the Night Elf culture (hell, right down to there name) can be described as the same.

[Thaag]

I have to disagree there,the darkspear tribe has the least lore of all the horde races.

The Darkspear tribe was one of the smaller Gurubashi tribes, which got pushed back and back off Stranglethorn until they said, "fuck this," and founded a colony of their own in the South Seas. Many years (a few centuries, I believe) later, they encountered Thrall. Some of the Darkspears didn't want to be involved in all the warring and migrated to the mountains of Darkshore, where the Dancing Troll Village was, renaming their tribe "Shatterspear" to indicate they were fed up with fighting.

[Deleted]

I, for one, am sad that the Shadowtooth Clan is supposedly destroyed. It's my favorite tribe.

[Judge Malthred]

I, for one, am sad that the Shadowtooth Clan is supposedly destroyed. It's my favorite tribe.

Don't be too sad, their destruction may yet prove to only be a set back!

[Pud'n]

So. I thought I'd make evolutionary (family?) trees based off Elysia's information a couple of pages ago.

Here's the first:



Next up: Dragons!

(Gasp) You forgot Jormungars, Stone Troggs, Sea Vrykul, Mountain Giants, and Flesh Giants!

[Judge Malthred]

(Gasp) You forgot Jormungars, Stone Troggs, Sea Vrykul, Mountain Giants, and Flesh Giants!

If you want to get real technical, the chart is also missing the origins of all the critters we see running around everywhere. Laugh all you like, there are about 500 of them per 1 of us. There could be an uprising one day...

[Deleted]

None of them looked like the other Ancients...

Excecpt for being huge, immensely powerful animals you mean?

[Dengir]

haha, so DEEP down every single Night Elf was part of the horde? Or am I missing something?

[Deleted]

haha, so DEEP down every single Night Elf was part of the horde? Or am I missing something?

Meh, Dark Trolls were never a part of the Horde (it's even questionable if they were a part of the Twin Empires). But on the other hand I think it's great that one of the races with the most fanatical following gets 'shafted'.

(Though that also means they have ties to the single awesomest race in the game...)

[Lotharfox]

I've always thought Ancients and Loa were basically the same thing, animal gods.

Are there any races on Azeroth that look lik a Loa? If not, then that might be the difference, the ancients can reproduce, the Loa can't.

If all animal-humanoid races are decended from an ancient, does that mean there is a Panda ancient?

The one thing still missing is Raptors. They're suposed to be a (semi-)sentient race. Do they have an ancient? Are they just the only dinosaur that evolved?

[Deleted]

I've always thought Ancients and Loa were basically the same thing, animal gods.

Are there any races on Azeroth that look lik a Loa? If not, then that might be the difference, the ancients can reproduce, the Loa can't.

If all animal-humanoid races are decended from an ancient, does that mean there is a Panda ancient?

The one thing still missing is Raptors. They're suposed to be a (semi-)sentient race. Do they have an ancient? Are they just the only dinosaur that evolved?

Loa come in two flavours: the lesser and primal Loa. The lesser Loa are spirits of ancestral Trolls that manifest themselves either as an eerie presence or a floating ball of light (remind you of anything? *nudge nudge* Wisps *nudge nudge*). The primal Loa are powerful animal (demi) gods.

So I'd say it's a strong possibility that wisps and Ancients are in fact what the Trolls call Loa.

[Deleted]

The only thing(s) I'm not sure about is the Amani and Gundrak's Loas. Gundrak's were all killed and the Amani's granted beast powers (See what I did there?) to their High Priests. None of them looked like the other Ancients, but this could simply be because each tribe has a different Pantheon?

Like, the Night Elves came from one tribe, so their Loas are different from the Darkspears' or the Amanis' or the Gurubashis'.

Thoughts?

it seems that every troll tribe worhships it own set of animal loa. for example in zangarmarsh you find out that a broken tribe worhships 2 animal spirits (loa) a serpent and a bird. the darkspear deem the bird weak and says only the amani would worhship something that weak. this would imply, that not all troll tribes agree on what a certain loa is worth. and therefore worhship different ones.

its quite possible that the dark trolls considered wolf/turtle/stag/harpy the loa worthy of their worhshipping, and that those load also changed by the well's powers. and became the ancients that are known today.

[Adeodatus]

I was dieing to know about the kobolds. Really, burning up inside. I JUST HADDDD TO KNOW.

[Deleted]

Trolls would have built a great empire if they weren't so busy fighting among themselves.



The most xenophobic ones are becoming a thing of the past, more and more. NElves are opening up their culture and attoning for their mistakes. The most old-style kaldorei xenophobe we had was Fandral Staghelm, which leads me to believe that he took a lot of those with him to the Firelands.

And we all know that every Night Elf player worth their salt enjoyed having the chance of personally getting rid of that jackass, after putting up with his separatist, arrogant bullshit for so many years.

IMO, making the NElves make a fuss about their troll ancestors wouldn't make sense. It doesn't revoke their status as the "chosen people of Elune", as only SOME trolls got changed. If anything, it strenghtens it.

I just had to quote this, because it's so very true in my opinion


I know this thread is about lore and not speculation, but.. I was wondering two things, when I went through the pages here.

First: Could the Aqir have in any way been related to Akir? They were insectoid, they were fierce and hostile. They may have been a race for the windlord. And they were surely an old race. Also I read somewhere that Malygos used blue insects as his favourite non-draconic form. Others use elves, humans and gnomes, why should he not use Aqir? Maybe they were even an ancestral race that got taken by the windlord back in the Elemental wars, when the Old Gods still ruled the world.
Oh well,

Second: Elune. As I understood it, the Old Gods come from the Great Dark Beyond, which is not the same as the Nether. If there is a thing like "Great Dark Beyond" maybe there is also something like a "Great Light Beyond", where for example the Light of Creation comes from? And maybe there's Gods there too, so Elune could be one of those? Which is also why evil entities always see "nothing but darkness" when they die and 'good' entities see light? That would explain why Velen thinks, her powers are similar to those of the Naaru ("Born of the Light"), but it would not necessarily make her a Naaru herself (which I would greatly dislike, I mean Elune being a Naaru, however powerful ^^).

[Sal the Shieldhog]

I've always thought Ancients and Loa were basically the same thing, animal gods.

Are there any races on Azeroth that look lik a Loa? If not, then that might be the difference, the ancients can reproduce, the Loa can't.

If all animal-humanoid races are decended from an ancient, does that mean there is a Panda ancient?

The one thing still missing is Raptors. They're suposed to be a (semi-)sentient race. Do they have an ancient? Are they just the only dinosaur that evolved?

Well, regarding the raptors - I think the Troll Druid chick (The one who helps you and Vol'jin kick the Sea Witch's ass... Er, tail), said something about being the Loas' priests before Zalazane went crazy, whereupon they were transported to some kind of spirit world and trained by a raptor Loa (Makes sense, given the Darkspears' fascination with raptors), so I guess that's related.

But, according to paleo-biologists/paleontologists (paleo-peeps), raptors were the smartest of the dinosaur world, and would develop strategies (In groups) to take down dinosaurs much, much larger than themselves. Blizzard may have just been refering to that.

[mvaliz]

So. I thought I'd make evolutionary (family?) trees based off Elysia's information a couple of pages ago.

Here's the first:

Hey Elyaan - I like it, but weren't the Troggs originally before the Earthen? They went Stone Troggs - then Troggs. Earthen, from the tales in Ulduman, said the Troggs were the beta for Earthen, but were unstable. Earthen were then created to replace the Troggs.

[Deleted]

Hey Elyaan - I like it, but weren't the Troggs originally before the Earthen? They went Stone Troggs - then Troggs. Earthen, from the tales in Ulduman, said the Troggs were the beta for Earthen, but were unstable. Earthen were then created to replace the Troggs.

There are two batches of Earthen, according to the Tribunal of Ages.