[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[Airlick]

I don't think you're getting what he meant by design flaws though. He doesn't mean a quest is broken, or that their are quests, but simply how they designed the game. Seeing how they view questing, leveling, progression, gear, professions, raiding etc.

To some people there are things that immediately stand out that won't be rectified by a 'do over'. Changing a tenet of their design is basically redoing the whole game over. It's wildly out of the ordinary for something like this to happen this late in the game, which is why their admitted failure with questing is pretty monumental. That also will consume the majority of their time going forward. They simply cannot afford that level of design deviance.

And to be fair, all they are changing is the presentation and completion credit of the exact same quest system...that's not really a shift in design so much as refinement of the same design of questing. You still pick up quests and complete them accordingly. So while I get what you're saying, what you're saying is just not what design flaws are.

This is exactly what I meant. I have been beta testing a lot of MMOs and I really don't mind reporting bugs etc. Also, it is a subjective matter whether or not something is a design flaw. I, for one, absolutely hated the weapon switching system from GW2 - that's why I never bought it. I have played beta, and I would have been reporting bugs and giving feedback just like in any other MMO's beta, but the weapon switching killed it for me. That's just an example.

Obviously, there are also design flaws that are not a subjective matter, but hard facts.

[Kelimbror]

Just to clarify, I read all the points I didn't quote and have no qualms with them. Just to know your opinion was read.

I'm curious: do you have any source on them saying it was going to be B2P? Or did the community assume that by itself from a lack of official sources?

I can't divulge my source and really shouldn't be talking about it for NDA reasons. You'll either have to trust me or not, but they said very clearly and intentionally misleading that it would be B2P, F2P, and have a sub option. From reading the joystiq article you can see they've gotten the media to spin it that way as well, so it's not like this is shocking to hear me say it.

They 100% left it vague, knowing people would assume a GW2 model with a subscription, when they basically had a standard subscription model. No amount of journalist payoffs in calling this B2P and F2P if you look at it the right way is going to make me feel good about their PR on this.

It's probably the largest reason this upsets me. I obviously have no qualms with a subscription for myself, but this display has completely eroded my faith that they are in this for the right reasons. I have not trust in them from the outset. That's a terrible way to try and garner my business.

[Deleted]

We don't know who is voting in that poll or what outlets are voting for it. It could be heavily biased one way or the other.

Doesn't seem like any less anecdotal than other opinions and speculation itt.

yeah its not accurate at all.. but its far better than picking out a number from thin air.

it was also taken from the wildstar reddit poll thread.

[Kelimbror]

We don't know who is voting in that poll or what outlets are voting for it. It could be heavily biased one way or the other.

Doesn't seem like any less anecdotal than other opinions and speculation itt.

Neither does it ask people if they expect every MMO to be F2P in order for them to pay nothing. In fact, posting that poll is completely irrelevant to what was being discussed.

EDIT:

yeah its not accurate at all.. but its far better than picking out a number from thin air.

I keep seeing this 'number' word. If you want to get technical...'most' can be assumed to be 50.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 repeating %. The poll is almost dead on that number. So. Show me how I would be wrong IF I had chosen a number to represent most?

Ok. I rest my case. Also to reiterate. Not at all what I was talking about.

[Deleted]

What number are you referring to? I don't recall stating a number. You can read through this thread to see that the people here (which I maybe didn't specify clearly) aren't demanding for games to be free. That is a popular misconception that people wanting something other than a subcription model are lazy, poor, freeloaders.

Another poster doesn't need you to move the goal posts for him. But what constitues 'full' has nothing to do with it. You don't get the 'full' WoW by paying a subcription and haven't for some time. You don't even get the 'full' console games by buying them, as they are then bombarded by DLC.

This isn't anything new or relegated to F2P games, so it doesn't support your stance and is overwhelmingly irrelevant.

"Most people" refers to a greater number than. If you look the poll linked several times here already, 52% loves the sub model. So what 15 people are saying in this thread does not bother me much. I wouldnt say any of them, but maybe cheap, and playing the wrong kind of game? I just dont get why people who play 4-5 hours a month go with MMOs? It feels like the wrong type of game, MMOs, not the same as in the past, but are somewhat about investing time to get anywhere. I do get that people can enjoy it anyway, but there must be better alternatives.

Wow offers tranfers, character changes for microtransactions, that is not the same as limiting people in the actual game, doing dungeons, dalies, or whatever they want to do. You still get the full console game when you buy it, consider DLCs to be smaller expansions. Its not like games in the past before the DLC invention gave you a ton of extra gameplay for free suddenly, did they?

[zito]

"Most people" refers to a greater number than. If you look the poll linked several times here already, 52% loves the sub model. So what 15 people are saying in this thread does not bother me much. I wouldnt say any of them, but maybe cheap, and playing the wrong kind of game? I just dont get why people who play 4-5 hours a month go with MMOs? It feels like the wrong type of game, MMOs, not the same as in the past, but are somewhat about investing time to get anywhere. I do get that people can enjoy it anyway, but there must be better alternatives.

It's quite irrelevant to go by a poll based on what people see from trailers. Not a lot of people actually know how the game plays so that poll is just going by eyes and not an actual game time.

Wow offers tranfers, character changes for microtransactions, that is not the same as limiting people in the actual game, doing dungeons, dalies, or whatever they want to do. You still get the full console game when you buy it, consider DLCs to be smaller expansions. Its not like games in the past before the DLC invention gave you a ton of extra gameplay for free suddenly, did they?

When you have to pay to log in after you bought the game already that is limiting content, actually it's limiting all content. "Fork over $15 a month after you already payed $50 for our game or you can't play."

[RoninaThorstone]

Wow offers tranfers, character changes for microtransactions, that is not the same as limiting people in the actual game, doing dungeons, dalies, or whatever they want to do. You still get the full console game when you buy it, consider DLCs to be smaller expansions. Its not like games in the past before the DLC invention gave you a ton of extra gameplay for free suddenly, did they?

And wow offers cosmetics, pets, and mounts.

Rift and Tera give their dungeons, raids, leveling, professions, ect all for free with no restrictions.

[Deleted]

I keep seeing this 'number' word. If you want to get technical...'most' can be assumed to be 50.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 repeating %. The poll is almost dead on that number. So. Show me how I would be wrong IF I had chosen a number to represent most?

Ok. I rest my case. Also to reiterate. Not at all what I was talking about.

no you just state that most people want this or that.. cause thats totally better .

[Kelimbror]

I just dont get why people who play 4-5 hours a month go with MMOs? It feels like the wrong type of game, MMOs, not the same as in the past, but are somewhat about investing time to get anywhere. I do get that people can enjoy it anyway, but there must be better alternatives.

Fortunately it's not your place to judge how other people like to spend their time.

Wow offers tranfers, character changes for microtransactions, that is not the same as limiting people in the actual game, doing dungeons, dalies, or whatever they want to do. You still get the full console game when you buy it, consider DLCs to be smaller expansions. Its not like games in the past before the DLC invention gave you a ton of extra gameplay for free suddenly, did they?

Your point was there is no 'truly' free game. My counter point was that everything charges you extra. Nothing you have said changes that. The bonus is that in a F2P game, you can do some of the things at no cost. In a B2P game, it's even more in your favor.

Tell me what you can do in a subscription game without paying anything.

[zito]

no you just state that most people want this or that.. cause thats totally better .

To be fair your poll is asking how people feel about it not what they want.

Make a poll on the same site and ask the preferred model before we revolve a discussion around a poll on a game most (lol) people never played.

[Kelimbror]

no you just state that most people want this or that.. cause thats totally better .

I already stated I wasn't clear enough that I was talking abotu this thread. I'm not discussing the merits of a large population of the public's opinion when I have no data. I half heartedly took your bait to discuss that even the poll, which we both admit is also horrible data, doesn't really prove me so wrong if that was my stance.

I'm specifically saying the people discussing this here aren't just asking for all MMOs to be free so they can be cheapskates. That's the popular view to express if you are pro sub though.

[Deleted]

We don't know who is voting in that poll or what outlets are voting for it. It could be heavily biased one way or the other.

Doesn't seem like any less anecdotal than other opinions and speculation itt.

Its a poll, its not any less accurate than telling people to look at different forums for negative comments about the direction they choose to go. That subreddit is not biased at all, look at the top comment in the reveal post for starters.

[RoninaThorstone]

To be fair your poll is asking how people feel about it not what they want.

Make a poll on the same site and ask the preferred model before we revolve a discussion around a poll on a game most (lol) people never played.

^ There a difference between tolerating a bad model [read, subscription] and preferring it.

[Holtzmann]

I can't divulge my source and really shouldn't be talking about it for NDA reasons. You'll either have to trust me or not, but they said very clearly and intentionally misleading that it would be B2P, F2P, and have a sub option. From reading the joystiq article you can see they've gotten the media to spin it that way as well, so it's not like this is shocking to hear me say it.

They 100% left it vague, knowing people would assume a GW2 model with a subscription, when they basically had a standard subscription model. No amount of journalist payoffs in calling this B2P and F2P if you look at it the right way is going to make me feel good about their PR on this.

It's probably the largest reason this upsets me. I obviously have no qualms with a subscription for myself, but this display has completely eroded my faith that they are in this for the right reasons. I have not trust in them from the outset. That's a terrible way to try and garner my business.

I have long learned that what the PR and finances department does in a company is fully unrelated to what the company's main operation itself does. Specially in IT. So I don't really blame developers for PR own goals.

Still, if you've got access to sources I don't, I'll leave it at that. Good show, Kitty.

[Kelimbror]

Its a poll, its not any less accurate than telling people to look at different forums for negative comments about the direction they choose to go. That subreddit is not biased at all, look at the top comment in the reveal post for starters.

What the one that said it wanted the game to be B2P? With 89 points? Hrm. Sure sounds like no one wanted the game to be B2P

#facetious statement

[Newbryn]

better games? lol

This is funny, if you hate GW2's combat you're gonna hate wildstar because its just gw2 with a trinity o and double jumps, worse animations too especially on mechari.

[zito]

This is funny, if you hate GW2's combat you're gonna hate wildstar because its just gw2 with a trinity o and double jumps.

Dodging isn't a 100% evade, you can still get hit. It's actually WoW combat with pointless aiming. When I say pointless, it's really really pointless, there are no points in time where you actually need to aim anywhere except what's in front of you, you can also click a toggle to auto aim for you.

lol

and yes they already revealed this stuff.

[Holtzmann]

So, how about someone creates one of those Strawpoll.me polls asking:
What business model would you prefer for Wildstar?
- Pay to Play, no CREDD
- Pay to Play, with CREDD (the current model)
- Buy to Play, no game store
- Buy to Play, with game store
- Free to Play, no game store
- Free to Play, with game store

That should help measure what people across the Internet actually think, right?

I would do that myself, but I can't access Reddit at work to post it there. Also, I don't know how to post stuff on Reddit, never really used it beyond occasionally checking links. :P

[Deleted]

This is funny, if you hate GW2's combat you're gonna hate wildstar because its just gw2 with a trinity o and double jumps, worse animations too especially on mechari.

no weapon switch, trinity roles.. yep instantly better. worse animations.. you mean a game in beta isnt as polished as a game already launched 12 months ago. im shocked.

[RoninaThorstone]

So, how about someone creates one of those Strawpoll.me polls asking:
What business model would you prefer for Wildstar?
- Pay to Play, no CREDD
- Pay to Play, with CREDD (the current model)
- Buy to Play, no game store
- Buy to Play, with game store
- Free to Play, no game store
- Free to Play, with game store

That should help measure what people across the Internet actually think, right?

I would do that myself, but I can't access Reddit at work to post it there. Also, I don't know how to post stuff on Reddit, never really used it beyond occasionally checking links. :P

Well, you might as well not ask the bolded and underlined since they aren't feasible.